American Airlines pilot layoffs.
Thread Starter
American Airlines pilot layoffs.
Just wondering how many former TWA pilots will be cut. Good luck to anyone thrown out onto the street, no matter what your job or company.
This brings me to another question. I've also been wondering about business travelers who have lost their nerve, not to mention other brave Americans. If video-conferencing/telephone calls etc had already (before the attacks) become such a good substitute for travel, then why weren't these same people using it for the past several years?
From seeing such a reduction in passengers onboard many flights, I would say that in the US, the terrorists have won-I never would have dreamed that so many Americans could become such a bunch of nervous sheep. What an embarassment.
This brings me to another question. I've also been wondering about business travelers who have lost their nerve, not to mention other brave Americans. If video-conferencing/telephone calls etc had already (before the attacks) become such a good substitute for travel, then why weren't these same people using it for the past several years?
From seeing such a reduction in passengers onboard many flights, I would say that in the US, the terrorists have won-I never would have dreamed that so many Americans could become such a bunch of nervous sheep. What an embarassment.
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Nervous sheep? Well yes I guess some are, but on the other hand, fares have not come down very much yet and the increased security at airports with the unwashed pawing through your hand luggage is not a pleasant experience.
Wonder when airlines will get their collective act together, and start treating passengers with RESPECT?
The so-called service from airline staff at nearly all levels is very poor IMHO, and has been for quite some time, in the USA anyway.
Wonder when airlines will get their collective act together, and start treating passengers with RESPECT?
The so-called service from airline staff at nearly all levels is very poor IMHO, and has been for quite some time, in the USA anyway.
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411a the great unwashed is not a phrase I believe you should use about people whose primary concern is the security of passengers. As to "the standard of service provided by airlines...."your opinion is never humble and often wide of the mark. You often slate the current generation of flight crew for attempting to maintain the terms and conditions that you apparently enjoyed during your career.
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You certainly are mis-informed Wobble-head, about security personnel here in the USA. A simple check will reveal that many are not US citizens and are working for the minimum wage. This fact was very nicely illustrated recently in a national television program on the subject. The fact that these folks work for airlines (contracted) and are NOT regulated by anyone is a disgrace. This will change for the better very shortly, I hope.
Most now have NO idea about security.
The great unwashed is an operative term.
Most now have NO idea about security.
The great unwashed is an operative term.
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Ignition Override-
Business people have told me that video conferencing is very expensive in itself - sometimes moreso that actually taking a trip. Also, you don't have the personal touch. I don't think video conferencing will ever replace actually being there.
Right now, as far as pax getting back into the air - it's just too soon. I also believe they see the security rampup as the same inadequate system - just more of it.
If they ask "How is security better now than before?" How do we answer them?
Are there Air Marshals on every airplane?
Are pilots armed for cockpit defense?
If security is all that good, how come we keep hearing about all these gross breaches in the news?
Maybe the 18 year old Army Guard Reservist walking around airports with an M-16 isn't enough.
Business people have told me that video conferencing is very expensive in itself - sometimes moreso that actually taking a trip. Also, you don't have the personal touch. I don't think video conferencing will ever replace actually being there.
Right now, as far as pax getting back into the air - it's just too soon. I also believe they see the security rampup as the same inadequate system - just more of it.
If they ask "How is security better now than before?" How do we answer them?
Are there Air Marshals on every airplane?
Are pilots armed for cockpit defense?
If security is all that good, how come we keep hearing about all these gross breaches in the news?
Maybe the 18 year old Army Guard Reservist walking around airports with an M-16 isn't enough.
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386 pilots were furloughed by AA. All have full recall rights. Some (appx 150) may even get a payraise if they choose to flow back to Eagle RJ Captain.
As far as pax loads and ticket prices, the airlines figure anyone flying right now is flying because they "have to" as opposed to flying because of buying a discounted ticket.
Once the loads settle and there's a real indication of where Joe Public is with this whole business, then I think we'll see some deals.
The US airlines, who are responsible for providing the airport security, obviously (in a calculating manner) are trying to figure out how much money they need to spend on the APPEARANCE on good security. If pax don't start returning by Thanksgiving the answer will be NOT ENOUGH,yet!
As far as arming pilots. I grew up in the UK-not known for its wild west image. However, I feel like the FAA is currently saying "If your airline's security missed a hijacker and they try to commandeer your aircraft then the only defense you have is to deliberately crash, otherwise we'll shoot you down".
Bit melodramatic I know but I'm starting to feel that arming our pilots is a better option.
dd
As far as pax loads and ticket prices, the airlines figure anyone flying right now is flying because they "have to" as opposed to flying because of buying a discounted ticket.
Once the loads settle and there's a real indication of where Joe Public is with this whole business, then I think we'll see some deals.
The US airlines, who are responsible for providing the airport security, obviously (in a calculating manner) are trying to figure out how much money they need to spend on the APPEARANCE on good security. If pax don't start returning by Thanksgiving the answer will be NOT ENOUGH,yet!
As far as arming pilots. I grew up in the UK-not known for its wild west image. However, I feel like the FAA is currently saying "If your airline's security missed a hijacker and they try to commandeer your aircraft then the only defense you have is to deliberately crash, otherwise we'll shoot you down".
Bit melodramatic I know but I'm starting to feel that arming our pilots is a better option.
dd
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I must (visible wince) agree with 411A. The quality of the security personnel is abysmal-I have had to have them repeat instructions several times because I couldn't understand their English (translation- new immigrant) , I have had to carry my on bag to a secondary examination table because they couldn't carry it (translation- elderly), I could go on.
As SLF, I'm less inclined to fly for a number of reasons- the tragic events of Sept. 11 only solidified them- Why should I spend four hours flying to Atlanta ( 1 hour airtime, 2 hours prior, 1 hour drive from ATL), when I can work my way over in 7 and make stops along the way? Additionally, I'm not entirely confident security, in spiute of what has been said, has been improved drastically.
Service is virtually non-existent, frequent flyer miles are virtually unusable ("I would like to fly on May 7, 2008" - "I'm sorry sir there are no seats available on that flight.")
All that said, videoconferencing will never replace the face-to face contact needed to cement business. Never.
So I will continue to fly. But not with a smile on my face.
As SLF, I'm less inclined to fly for a number of reasons- the tragic events of Sept. 11 only solidified them- Why should I spend four hours flying to Atlanta ( 1 hour airtime, 2 hours prior, 1 hour drive from ATL), when I can work my way over in 7 and make stops along the way? Additionally, I'm not entirely confident security, in spiute of what has been said, has been improved drastically.
Service is virtually non-existent, frequent flyer miles are virtually unusable ("I would like to fly on May 7, 2008" - "I'm sorry sir there are no seats available on that flight.")
All that said, videoconferencing will never replace the face-to face contact needed to cement business. Never.
So I will continue to fly. But not with a smile on my face.
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For the europeans it is premium business that makes a difference. My company has just imposed a ban on all international travel. This isnt security its costs. We are a major company, with over 18k people. We cut costs or we cut costs. i just returned a $7000 ticket for a trip I was to make - I dont mind though I would like to make the next morgaage payment rather than anything else
V50
V50
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Dallas Dude: Were you recently in Toronto, going to the jogging path near the "N" hotel? An MD-80 pilot told me about the terrible British taxes-worse than I was aware of.
You folks raised many interesting issues. On my sixth day of flying since the attacks, airport security staff (Newark: KEWR) finally noticed my screwdrivers and wrench in the flight bag (and kept them a while)-the week before they did not, but had me put my shoes on the x-ray belt.
Concern is natural (like every time I drive my car in this city or anywhere-it was hit from behind and "totaled" in July). But it still surprises me that so many of the business passengers and even other people are so easily intimidated, when it is my impression that never again would US passengers just sit there if they are aware of a disturbance. The key must be awareness. Our intelligence agencies must be much busier than before, and much better staffed?
According to a very good article today on an aviation news website, even Israel's El Al pilots are NOT armed, but they have solid doors and armed agents in the cabin which are preceded by long passenger interrogations. An El Al pilot commented on how asleep the US has been for so many years. We failed to learn from their terrorist threats many years ago, even though El Al has far fewer flights than many companies. On the other hand, the costs of long interviews and professional screeners would/will be a financial burden.
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]
You folks raised many interesting issues. On my sixth day of flying since the attacks, airport security staff (Newark: KEWR) finally noticed my screwdrivers and wrench in the flight bag (and kept them a while)-the week before they did not, but had me put my shoes on the x-ray belt.
Concern is natural (like every time I drive my car in this city or anywhere-it was hit from behind and "totaled" in July). But it still surprises me that so many of the business passengers and even other people are so easily intimidated, when it is my impression that never again would US passengers just sit there if they are aware of a disturbance. The key must be awareness. Our intelligence agencies must be much busier than before, and much better staffed?
According to a very good article today on an aviation news website, even Israel's El Al pilots are NOT armed, but they have solid doors and armed agents in the cabin which are preceded by long passenger interrogations. An El Al pilot commented on how asleep the US has been for so many years. We failed to learn from their terrorist threats many years ago, even though El Al has far fewer flights than many companies. On the other hand, the costs of long interviews and professional screeners would/will be a financial burden.
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]
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We have seen this all befor.....as the gulf war started passenger numbers dropped by 24% only to recover within 6 months.
I think that you will all be back in work within the a year ,most of you much sooner after all whats the other option to flying in the states ? ....amtrack ,i think not !.
I think that you will all be back in work within the a year ,most of you much sooner after all whats the other option to flying in the states ? ....amtrack ,i think not !.
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From what I have read it looks as though Swissair are to be folded into Crossair, with Crossair taking all of the former Swissair flying.! At DFW Eagle are allegedly taking terminal A gate space from AA and have started flights such as DFW-DAY with more to follow.! Is the writing on the wall, will AA become the EAGLE CONNECTION.? I hope not but just trying to razz you guys.! However dont trust Don and his merry men, with his emergency dcelaration they will be trying to explore the envelope. Good luck to all.!
