Qantas B744 Total electrical failure?
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As a 747-400 pilot, I know that with loss of all 4 generators, I am down to battery power. Two batteries (main and APU) and two standby inverters and their respective AC standby busses power enough instruments and functions to land the airplane. The captain's PFD, ND, FMC will work. So will the left VHF radio, dome lights, nacelle anti-ice, and captain pitot heat. I can trim with the alternate trim switches. The landing gear release will work, and the gear will extend hydraulicaly. The flaps extend in primary hydraulic mode. Leading edge flaps extend with air mode. I can fly an ILS raw data approach. However, I'm limited to 30 minutes in this scenario, so being close to an airport when this happens is the key to success. Main problems besides the obvious are the loss of anti-skid braking and loss of thrust reverse. We practice loss of all 4 generators during initial simulator training.
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So will the left VHF radio, dome lights, nacelle anti-ice, and captain pitot heat.
Main problems besides the obvious are the loss of anti-skid braking and loss of thrust reverse.
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i have been on this aircraft flying a 4/5 times this past few weeks after the "Incedent" and everything is just as normal , apart from noticed water in the very bottom of the lift shaft dont know where it came from or that but the guys checked it out with SYD and we continued, but was weird thing to find there , and also the door allowed me into the lift shaft witht he lift being at the Upper deck level while i was on the main deck. this is where the water is in the shaft not the bottom of the lift its self.
anyone noticed this on OJM ? hope it has been fixed now before i fly again
anyone noticed this on OJM ? hope it has been fixed now before i fly again
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i have been on this aircraft flying a(sic) 4/5 times this past few weeks after the "Incedent"(sic) and everything is just as normal
apart from noticed(sic) water in the very bottom of the lift shaft dont(sic) know where it came from or that(?) but the guys checked it out with SYD and we continued, but was [a] weird thing to find there
Leaking water, on its own, does not always present a major hazard. 747's have been flying for many decades without something like this happening. Aircraft have a large number of protections. It usually takes a breakdown of many of these protections before it constitutes a major hazard.
and also the door allowed me into the lift shaft witht he lift being at the Upper deck level while i was on the main deck. this is where the water is in the shaft not the bottom of the lift its self(sic).
I also assume that you had to manipulate a three part mechanical lock to open the elevator door... Whereupon you would be protected by:1) two electrical interlocks on the door
2) an electrical interlock in a pressure mat on the floor of the lift well
Basically, there were six airplane devices protecting you from danger... plus your own intuition, telling you not to get into a small elevator designed for carts
anyone noticed this on OJM ? hope it has been fixed now before i fly again
Note: When making entries in the cabin log book, include as many details as possible. Please use correct spelling and punctuate your sentences so that dumb (sorry, intellectually challenged) engineers understand what you are talking about
Because investigators are now closer to understanding the factors behind the QF incident, they can now start addressing the issues... I only hope, after reading these forum threads, you are contributing to safety by telling your fellow FA's not to pour coffee and tea down the drains.... especially when engineers are walking about under the aircraft... They really don't appreciate hot coffee being sprayed in their eyes from drain masts underneath the aircraft (Engineers may look a little grubby at times, but it's not always their fault). Coffee may not have been an issue in this particular incident, but it certainly doesn't help.
Before you roll your eyes, perhaps you should check that you have your facts straight and are not unnecessarily panicking the general public
Also make sure that you, yourself, are not contributing to the problem. Rgds.
NSEU
Last edited by NSEU; 24th Jan 2008 at 22:16.
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Does FADEC still work when the battery runs out? Its electric too.
The alternator uses a permanent magnet to generate electricity (actually, each alternator has two power-generating circuits to provide power to independent channels (computers) in the EEC's. There is a normal channel and a backup channel in the EEC).
A great deal of redundancy is built into the engine management system
Join Date: Jan 2007
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water from an over flow in the galley, mmmm. I have been a QF engineer on line for a few years and we are constantly unblocking drains that have been filled with coffee grinds and all kinds of junk.
Maybe, hopefully the lazy flight attendents (not all) will learn how much they can jeopardise the aircraft and think while they work!
As for some earlier threads, The QF 747-400 APU can't operate in flight at all. Yes it is designed to but QF does not have the inlet Door mod to do so. Besides, 4 generators didn't die, so whats the point of putting 2 more down the back on in a situation like this.
I have seen water in lift shaft many times, mainly comes from upperdeck door area and galley. that part of A/C is too far back to get to the MEC as the nose up pitch will not allow it.
Maybe, hopefully the lazy flight attendents (not all) will learn how much they can jeopardise the aircraft and think while they work!
As for some earlier threads, The QF 747-400 APU can't operate in flight at all. Yes it is designed to but QF does not have the inlet Door mod to do so. Besides, 4 generators didn't die, so whats the point of putting 2 more down the back on in a situation like this.
I have seen water in lift shaft many times, mainly comes from upperdeck door area and galley. that part of A/C is too far back to get to the MEC as the nose up pitch will not allow it.
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I have seen water in lift shaft many times, mainly comes from upperdeck door area and galley. that part of A/C is too far back to get to the MEC as the nose up pitch will not allow it.
Back in the dim, dark past, Radio engineers were constantly having problems with water in the Forward Cargo saturating the CEC racks. Modifications have added an extra layer of protection... but water seems to have found its way through multiple layers of protection in this latest incident.
Rgds.
NSEU
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idea
empire:
given there's about to be a new influx of FA's off the street following the long haul cabin crew deal/no deal ......... maybe its a good time to post a few photos of drains and the aftermath when things other than liquids are despatched down the sink?
Just had a quick scan of Mrs airtags' manuals and there's nothing in there that really stands out in this regard (for the Q eff FA's) - Might be proactive (& opportune given the negotiation game), to email a few pix and a few carefully worded sentences* to the cabin crew's monthly crew voice forum and their monthy newsletter thing which are open to submissions from anyone.
- Actually she tells me that she does her briefings now using the plasma on the wall so I guess you've got another avenue to use to get the message across.
*there's probably scope amongst the do's & dont's to subtly slip in the odd creative reference to limited time/resources to rectify such problems etc., - maybe even go for the sympathy vote with a shot of some poor bugger covered in brown sludge fixing the drain
given there's about to be a new influx of FA's off the street following the long haul cabin crew deal/no deal ......... maybe its a good time to post a few photos of drains and the aftermath when things other than liquids are despatched down the sink?
Just had a quick scan of Mrs airtags' manuals and there's nothing in there that really stands out in this regard (for the Q eff FA's) - Might be proactive (& opportune given the negotiation game), to email a few pix and a few carefully worded sentences* to the cabin crew's monthly crew voice forum and their monthy newsletter thing which are open to submissions from anyone.
- Actually she tells me that she does her briefings now using the plasma on the wall so I guess you've got another avenue to use to get the message across.
*there's probably scope amongst the do's & dont's to subtly slip in the odd creative reference to limited time/resources to rectify such problems etc., - maybe even go for the sympathy vote with a shot of some poor bugger covered in brown sludge fixing the drain
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NSEU -- why that sharp, harsh , aregent attitude, few points
Its just normal to us we are not engineers thats what they are paid for , so it feels normal to us crew inside,
the lock on the lift shaft opened as if the lift was there , not like we had a axe and busted the door, you honestly think we tried to open the door after its locked please !!
and maybe in OZ they just chuck the coffe out the sink but we put it in the galley bin in the UK,
and like everything you put in the cabin/IFE log they pick it up and fix it im affraid i cant do more there on that one up to the engineers to fix like everything it seems to take ages. and of course we callled the flight deck after what happened especially we call them for anything out the ordinery,
so before you know what your talking about my post, get off your high horse and act like an adult with some respect for your colleges,
and if you are one of ours no matter where with an attitude like that god help us.
ps didnt roll eyes , that was me thinking HELP fix it as in scared.
Its just normal to us we are not engineers thats what they are paid for , so it feels normal to us crew inside,
the lock on the lift shaft opened as if the lift was there , not like we had a axe and busted the door, you honestly think we tried to open the door after its locked please !!
and maybe in OZ they just chuck the coffe out the sink but we put it in the galley bin in the UK,
and like everything you put in the cabin/IFE log they pick it up and fix it im affraid i cant do more there on that one up to the engineers to fix like everything it seems to take ages. and of course we callled the flight deck after what happened especially we call them for anything out the ordinery,
so before you know what your talking about my post, get off your high horse and act like an adult with some respect for your colleges,
and if you are one of ours no matter where with an attitude like that god help us.
ps didnt roll eyes , that was me thinking HELP fix it as in scared.
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Maybe, hopefully the lazy flight attendents (not all) will learn how much they can jeopardise the aircraft and think while they work!
The (previously unaware) FA's are only part of the flooding issue. There are many things which lead to flooding. If my sources are correct, the actual cause of the BKK incident was engineering-related (or more airplane-design-related).
According to my sources, the ribbon heater for the rubber tube connecting the drain plumbing to the drain mast heater had failed. Basically it was icing which caused the problem.
Ribbon heaters are not something that generate warning messages... and I'm not sure how often engineers are required to check these things (if ever).
How drip shields get cracked in the first place is beyond me (unless it's a temperature variation thing). It's not like you can tread on top of the drip shield.. unless you remove the galley and floor panels.
Water in the cart elevator shaft probably originates from the plumbing behind the coffee makers and water boilers in the U/D galley. Sometime the pressure relief valves don't seat properly. Again a design problem (or perhaps wear and tear and lack of insight/resources to fix the problem)
At the moment, I'm attributing the incident to poor design, lack of time, lack of training, greedy management.. and just plain bad luck
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Coffee and tea down drains?
Are you all so sure that that is what blocks them?
Where I work it is standard procedure to pour the remaining very hot coffee and the remaining boiling water used to make tea down the very small drains at the end of the shift.
If we don't then very soon the small drains get clogged with a grey slime which resembles a fungus/bacteria hybrid.
Hot chocholate residue is another main cause of blockage. The drain slime feeds on it.
Someone in authority should have these "blockages" analysed.
(P.S. the drains from the ice bins produce a really nasty slime of a different colour, who would have thought some exotic beast could live in a drain fed only by ice melt?)
Where I work it is standard procedure to pour the remaining very hot coffee and the remaining boiling water used to make tea down the very small drains at the end of the shift.
If we don't then very soon the small drains get clogged with a grey slime which resembles a fungus/bacteria hybrid.
Hot chocholate residue is another main cause of blockage. The drain slime feeds on it.
Someone in authority should have these "blockages" analysed.
(P.S. the drains from the ice bins produce a really nasty slime of a different colour, who would have thought some exotic beast could live in a drain fed only by ice melt?)
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so before you know what your talking about my post, get off your high horse and act like an adult with some respect for your colleges
It's not a high horse, a lame donkey.
who would have thought some exotic beast could live in a drain fed only by ice melt?