What's really going on here?
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Colorfax - you sound like a thoughtful character. I am sorry you feel like that though. The grass is ALWAYS greener, that's for sure. I can assure you that many of us would swap with you in a flash. It may not be what it used to be, but it sure as hell beats sitting at a desk all day. I would love to take what is a private passion and make it into my profession. Bet I am not the only one either! Chin-up and think of people like me who dearly wanted to be in your seat but missed out. 
L337 - stunning shots. Thanks so much for sharing. What an office!
L337 - stunning shots. Thanks so much for sharing. What an office!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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All jobs eventually become routine and/or boring. It is, generally speaking, a fact of life.
I know one thing though, I'd rather be bored doing this than bored sat behind some desk somewhere wondering where my stapler is....
I know one thing though, I'd rather be bored doing this than bored sat behind some desk somewhere wondering where my stapler is....
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Don't dis the stapler game....I routinely hide mine and then forget about for a few days. Hours of fun trying to find it again. You should try it some time......living the dream!
Jagohu.....same story in ATC , especially where you come from . The beancounters rule everywhere , money before safety despite all the blah blah blah justifying it .
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Why does everybody get upset just because somebody is telling the truth? We are in a profession where we get the most amount of money for the least amount of work (I know, bring it on) I love my job (airline), but honestly it bores me to death!
PS No I am not quiting, I am young (sort of) and I need the money
PS No I am not quiting, I am young (sort of) and I need the money
Join Date: Dec 2006
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well I used to work in an office and in the last ten years I have done alot of different flying jobs, I am now a skipper for the orange mob and I love it, on a typical day I am responsible for the welfare of over 600 PAX, I DO make the decisions and I get to land the big toy anyway I like. And yes I agree with an earlier post that the 319 is the most challenging aircraft I have ever flown in turbulent max xwind conditions, in fact I would rather fly the Boeing again on those days.
But I would still do this job any day over the office job even if it paid me three times the amount.
But I would still do this job any day over the office job even if it paid me three times the amount.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Colourfax
"Where did our highly-paid specialized skills go when airbus introduced envelope protection?"- We can still fly the aircraft manually in raw data possibilities with engine out emergencies.
"How can my collegues possibly earn more than the prime minister for dropping out of high-school at 19?"- Because with the Prime Minister on board, there is a possibility he could RTO, he could (just before) V1 cut, rotate with an Engine fire, Evacuate, Emergency descent all these perfomed to profficiency.
"How does the 26 year old skipper of a 737 qualify as a professional when all he's done for the past 7 years is drink beer and watch HBO"- In these 7 yrs he must had done not less than 14 recurrents, some renewals number of and some number of refreshers, demonstrated to profficiency.
"Is there exceptional decision-making or judgement beyond the SOP's?"- Proffesionalism.
"What seperates the few bastions of professionalism from those faking it?"- Initial ratings, renewals, and recurrents. I know a quiet a number who could not make it...in the sim.
"It's a lazy job"- Yes, although it could sometimes get scaring or interesting.
"You can't pull a guy off the street to do this?"- NO, aptitude?
"All we got left is a great nasal PA voice"- Really?
"And of course the option of selecting HDG to fly around the red stuff on the WX radar of course...."- I would not fly through a CB...
"The old guys will oppose me, the mid-life guys ignore me, and the young guys will regrettably agree."- I am mid-age and I did not ignore you.
"It's over. My kid will be a dentist."- suppose he/she does not want to be one.
"How can my collegues possibly earn more than the prime minister for dropping out of high-school at 19?"- Because with the Prime Minister on board, there is a possibility he could RTO, he could (just before) V1 cut, rotate with an Engine fire, Evacuate, Emergency descent all these perfomed to profficiency.
"How does the 26 year old skipper of a 737 qualify as a professional when all he's done for the past 7 years is drink beer and watch HBO"- In these 7 yrs he must had done not less than 14 recurrents, some renewals number of and some number of refreshers, demonstrated to profficiency.
"Is there exceptional decision-making or judgement beyond the SOP's?"- Proffesionalism.
"What seperates the few bastions of professionalism from those faking it?"- Initial ratings, renewals, and recurrents. I know a quiet a number who could not make it...in the sim.
"It's a lazy job"- Yes, although it could sometimes get scaring or interesting.
"You can't pull a guy off the street to do this?"- NO, aptitude?
"All we got left is a great nasal PA voice"- Really?
"And of course the option of selecting HDG to fly around the red stuff on the WX radar of course...."- I would not fly through a CB...
"The old guys will oppose me, the mid-life guys ignore me, and the young guys will regrettably agree."- I am mid-age and I did not ignore you.
"It's over. My kid will be a dentist."- suppose he/she does not want to be one.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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This discussion has been ongoing since the Wright brothers. We haven't yet reached the stage of pilot less aircraft but we are getting there. Unfortunately, the majority of accidents are still down to pilot error, many avoidable with the correct use of, or better automatics. Who could object to 3D GPS for terrain clearance and approach flying, especially as we have had two CFIT incidents in the last month. Having retired from aviation after 38 yrs of military and civil flying I am disturbed at some of the standards in the industry, illustrated, for example by the accident investigation programmes on TV amongst other sources and personal experience. This range of abilities is of course typical of all professions, look at medicine for example. What is important is that pilots accept the inherant sefety of automated systems, accepts them and actively engages in thier development and use. The 'I'm a pilot and therefore must hand fly it' mentality has cost lives.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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My last type was not autoland equipped, so as a pilot, I did have to hand fly it; every second sector, on average. Then there are autopilot failures, weather conditions outside the autopilot limits, runways without CAT2 ILS (therefore no autoland).... perhaps I had better ensure I am in current flying practice?
In fact, given that many of the malfunctions that can lead to autopilot failure also cause severe degradation of the aircraft's handling, I had better keep practicing to try and increase my flying skills.
The automatics are tools we can use to let us control the aircraft more safely. The current generation are a long way from being safe enough to replace us.
In fact, given that many of the malfunctions that can lead to autopilot failure also cause severe degradation of the aircraft's handling, I had better keep practicing to try and increase my flying skills.
The automatics are tools we can use to let us control the aircraft more safely. The current generation are a long way from being safe enough to replace us.
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Indeed CB, there are still 'primitive' aircraft arround, but not for ever. The technology exists to make us independant of ground based aids and enable 'Cat 3' type approaches anywhere. As for the autopilots failing, in my experience, 14000hrs, never known. Engine failures, much more likely, but still rare and much safer if the automatics put the correct rudder in for you! Would have helped in the case of the 'aerobatic' Chinese 747. The sooner we can introduce devices to stop pilots screwing up, the better. That will obviously involve some sort of system to stop them running of the end of runways, over 36 last year.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Well in my slightly less than 14000 hrs I've had many autopilot failures from total loss to mode fails. F/D's not agreeing, or displaying total nonsense so to put all your eggs in the basket of autoflight isn't sensible either.
Pilots do make mistakes, but we do still need to keep our hand flying skills sharp. No "system" designed by a human is perfect, so we need humans to make up for odd stuff up.
Pilots do make mistakes, but we do still need to keep our hand flying skills sharp. No "system" designed by a human is perfect, so we need humans to make up for odd stuff up.
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Perhaps I have been flying modern aircraft, except in difficult landing conditions I have never had need to exercise my 'sharp' handling skills and cannot recall any incidents in my last airline of anyone having to do so. I can recount many incidents though, where it would have been better for all had 'Biggles' sat on his hands. We are looking to the future and the sooner the autopilots are engaged and disengaged on the runway the better, this will not happen until it is safe to do so of course which is not yet but hopefully in the not to distant future. Will make me feel a lot safer as a passenger.
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The second that happens, I'll leave the industry for good. A fair few will be doing the same I wager.
Whilst you could argue that it is safer to have the automatics in all the time, we have a pretty good record here in the UK whilst allowing hand flying where appropriate. (He says whilst looking for a wooden object to touch!)
How safe is safe? There is always some element of risk that cannot be accounted for. Hand flying is not the biggest issue, CFIT still happens when "George" is in.
Whilst you could argue that it is safer to have the automatics in all the time, we have a pretty good record here in the UK whilst allowing hand flying where appropriate. (He says whilst looking for a wooden object to touch!)
How safe is safe? There is always some element of risk that cannot be accounted for. Hand flying is not the biggest issue, CFIT still happens when "George" is in.
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Those entering the industry in the future won't be doing so to be 'pilots' but systems operators whose purpose is to deliver people safely to their destinations not exercise their egos. Indeed the autopilot will not prevent you flying into terrain, but coupled with GPS / terrain mapping could do so.
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Ooh, there's some grumpy old Scrooges out there!
Courtney refers to
But perhaps that should read 'I'm a pilot and therefore must (be able to) hand fly it'
But I am off-thread (again).
I am one of the older ones, but started late, which gives me two unusual perspectives.
Firstly being relatively new to it all, compared to my age, I still have plenty of enthusiasm for new challenges (training, for example) rather than the increasing modern trap of: in at 21, command at 24, trainer at 26, management at 30, burnt out at ..? And try to achieve such a meteoric rise in any other skilled manual job!
Secondly, and this is perhaps the real point, having been round the block a bit, I have done some pretty crappy jobs. Some were poorly paid, some boring, dirty or dangerous. And occasionally all of those things!
So heres the thing: maybe someone should start a new thread.
"The worst job I ever did".
Or was that covered by Derek and Clive.
Don't supose anyone under 45 will know what I'm on about.
Courtney refers to
'I'm a pilot and therefore must hand fly it'
But I am off-thread (again).
I am one of the older ones, but started late, which gives me two unusual perspectives.
Firstly being relatively new to it all, compared to my age, I still have plenty of enthusiasm for new challenges (training, for example) rather than the increasing modern trap of: in at 21, command at 24, trainer at 26, management at 30, burnt out at ..? And try to achieve such a meteoric rise in any other skilled manual job!
Secondly, and this is perhaps the real point, having been round the block a bit, I have done some pretty crappy jobs. Some were poorly paid, some boring, dirty or dangerous. And occasionally all of those things!
So heres the thing: maybe someone should start a new thread.
"The worst job I ever did".
Or was that covered by Derek and Clive.
Don't supose anyone under 45 will know what I'm on about.