Qantas investigated after filling crew oxygen tanks with nitrogen!
moggiee, are you sure it was the pilot of a Hunter?
I recall a serious incident in the Hunter simulator many years ago, when the 'breathing air' had been refilled with nitrogen. The instructor thought that the student was being a bit dull, until he failed to respond to simulated radio calls. They opened the canopy and found him close to death....
Since then I never, ever connected my oxygen mask in any simulator!
Slightly less serious was the occasion, early in the days of Anglo-French aircraft, when some bonehead tried to dismantle a helicopter jack marked 'Gonflé à l'azote...' Just as he was undoing the last part of the thread, there was a bang and the jack parted company from the cylinder at a somewhat rapid pace...
Fortunately, no-one was injured. The Franglais label meant 'charged with nitrogen' - which it undoubtedly proved to have been!
I recall a serious incident in the Hunter simulator many years ago, when the 'breathing air' had been refilled with nitrogen. The instructor thought that the student was being a bit dull, until he failed to respond to simulated radio calls. They opened the canopy and found him close to death....
Since then I never, ever connected my oxygen mask in any simulator!
Slightly less serious was the occasion, early in the days of Anglo-French aircraft, when some bonehead tried to dismantle a helicopter jack marked 'Gonflé à l'azote...' Just as he was undoing the last part of the thread, there was a bang and the jack parted company from the cylinder at a somewhat rapid pace...
Fortunately, no-one was injured. The Franglais label meant 'charged with nitrogen' - which it undoubtedly proved to have been!
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Every time we Murphy-proof some aspect of our lives, we merely succeed in raising a new-and-improved generation of Murphies! 
(I think there's an echo in here - or maybe I've said this before...)
(I think there's an echo in here - or maybe I've said this before...)
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The filling/placing of nitrogen in the place of oxygen is a problem in many critical industries. There was recently an incident at a local (large) hospital where the delivery AND maintenance staff colluded with each other to replace the theatre oxygen with nitrogen - they discussed thread types at length and STILL changed the bottles over - we're talking about a DOZEN bottles here. Not good for the person being operated on.....
I beleive the tap threads are different, but the fittings that are often ingeniously fitted to the top of bottles is open to interpretation
I beleive the tap threads are different, but the fittings that are often ingeniously fitted to the top of bottles is open to interpretation
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Nothing can be made "Murphy Proof" only "Murphy Resistant".
It is so damn difficult to make anything foolproof.... because fools are so damn ingenious
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Intruder
> Second, even at altitude we can breathe easily with less than 100% O2.
Ah yes I forgot it would be mixed. Perhaps a good job the mixing isn't automatic using an O2 sensor - might have detected the incorrect 02 level and tried to correct it by turning the percentage, which wouldnt have worked with a tank of Nitrogen.
> Second, even at altitude we can breathe easily with less than 100% O2.
Ah yes I forgot it would be mixed. Perhaps a good job the mixing isn't automatic using an O2 sensor - might have detected the incorrect 02 level and tried to correct it by turning the percentage, which wouldnt have worked with a tank of Nitrogen.
My company supplies equipment worldwide that requires Nitrogen filling before commissioning. This means that we will also have to include adapters to fit the 11 different connection standards that exist. Standards, what standards?
Per
Per
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Uk airline - when the crew o2 gets low, the whole bottle is replaced although it is physically possible to 'top-up'.
Downside is that if there are no spares, you might see a Level 1 Add to say that the ac is fit for only 2 pilots on the FD because the O2 is below that required for 3.
Cheers,
mcdhu
Downside is that if there are no spares, you might see a Level 1 Add to say that the ac is fit for only 2 pilots on the FD because the O2 is below that required for 3.
Cheers,
mcdhu
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I suppose nobody has thought of writing OXYGEN or NITROGEN in f$£$£%&
big letters down the bottle!!??
On the subject of thread standardisation US and European aviation oxy bottles have differing threads too!
big letters down the bottle!!??
On the subject of thread standardisation US and European aviation oxy bottles have differing threads too!
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Common sense not very common any more, Are we not training a bunch of paper punching robots?? Always nice to bump into techs who question everything that looks or feels remotely wrong. Especially in these days of software....
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"The filling/placing of nitrogen in the place of oxygen is a problem in many critical industries" (TOOFASTTOOLOW)
Too right there. I recall a contractor working inside a storage tank, using an air-powered angle grinder. Instead of the compressed air supply, plugged the hose into a nitrogen line, and gassed himself; and nearly did for 2 would be rescuers,too.
remember having heated argument with H&S bod because the fittings were also the same as on the respirator feed points!
Too right there. I recall a contractor working inside a storage tank, using an air-powered angle grinder. Instead of the compressed air supply, plugged the hose into a nitrogen line, and gassed himself; and nearly did for 2 would be rescuers,too.
remember having heated argument with H&S bod because the fittings were also the same as on the respirator feed points!
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Chemical Symbols
I know I am stepping out of my preferred domain of Fizix and into Chemistry, but why not also include the internationally accepted chemical symbols O2 (subscripted 2) or N on each container instead of any words in English - different names for Oxygen in different languages. That way, any "trained " re-filler should be able to tell the difference immediately. Forget colour codes, because I certainly don't know the colour for oxygen when it comes in gas bottles.
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I do belive in some countries Gaseous crew o2 recharging is not permitted, the whole bottle assy is replaced and refilled, does anybody know if and where this is practiced??
I think you will find this happens in several countries, but mainly any N reg A/C
Tristar 500
I think you will find this happens in several countries, but mainly any N reg A/C
Tristar 500
Sorry, but I'm back again making one last try to get a question or two answered
1) Were the guys who supposedly dicked around with the O2/nitrogen bottles licensed?
2) How often per 1000 flights are these bottles actually used in flight?
3) How long (months) has this contamination likely existed?
1) Were the guys who supposedly dicked around with the O2/nitrogen bottles licensed?
2) How often per 1000 flights are these bottles actually used in flight?
3) How long (months) has this contamination likely existed?
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Some thoughts as a technical diver, rather than a pilot.
Breathing the wrong gas has killed plenty of divers. Cylinder markings, colour, labels etc don't make any difference.
At the end of the day you need to know what you are breathing, that you have enough of it to get you to safety, and that the regulator and mask will deliver it when needed.
The only way you can be sure of this is to analyse the gas (few seconds work with very cheap oxygen analyser), check the cylinder pressure, and breathe the system to confirm it is working. Repeat *every* dive.
The same simple and quick checks would certainly work in the cockpit, and the atmosphere at crusing level is no more compatible with life than 50 metres of sea water.
CC
Breathing the wrong gas has killed plenty of divers. Cylinder markings, colour, labels etc don't make any difference.
At the end of the day you need to know what you are breathing, that you have enough of it to get you to safety, and that the regulator and mask will deliver it when needed.
The only way you can be sure of this is to analyse the gas (few seconds work with very cheap oxygen analyser), check the cylinder pressure, and breathe the system to confirm it is working. Repeat *every* dive.
The same simple and quick checks would certainly work in the cockpit, and the atmosphere at crusing level is no more compatible with life than 50 metres of sea water.
CC
refilling off a/c
Confirm that ti is indeed standard practice for many organisations to re-charge the cylinders off the a/c, thi type of incident occured in a uk mro a few years ago resulting in revised practices
keep safe folks - & REMEMBER - DO NOT USE ANY OIL OR GREASE ON OXYGEN CONNECTORS
OXYGEN for breathing :-)
NITROGEN for tyres :-)
if either are the other way around = :-((
keep safe folks - & REMEMBER - DO NOT USE ANY OIL OR GREASE ON OXYGEN CONNECTORS
OXYGEN for breathing :-)
NITROGEN for tyres :-)
if either are the other way around = :-((
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In a similar incident many years ago, someone had mistakenly serviced our charter B-727's CSD's (constant speed drive generator) with skydrol during an itinerant fuelstop. An in-flight loss of all generators was the result.
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Lifted from my post on the Dunnunda thread on the same topic:
Since the mistake was found before the proverbial hole in Dr Reason's last slice of cheese lined up with some hapless crew suffering a decompression or a cabin fire, I suppose we should be grateful that the original mistake was getting a nitrogen cart confused with an oxygen cart and not the other way around. Had it been the other way around, there could have been a major explosion had some unfortunate LAME tried working on the cart with a greasy spanner - or, as someone has mentioned already, if someone had tried using oxygen to fill an undercarriage oleo.