Qantas investigated after filling crew oxygen tanks with nitrogen!
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Qantas investigated after filling crew oxygen tanks with nitrogen!
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hetfield
The connectors are different, but according to the article on Avweb (linked previously) the crew changed the connectors, apparently without thinking about it, from the nitrogen type to the oxygen type when they discovered the connectors on their new 'cart' didnt fit...how idiotic can you get?! 
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It's unbelievable (and rather frightening) to think that with all the Quality assurance systems and paperwork trails involved in aviation that something as potentially life threatening could happen. Perhaps the contractors involved though that since nitrogen is the main component in air, then it would do the same job as oxygen? Err maybe not....
That surely must be (unintentional) gross negligence. It certainly is more criminal than speeding, through a red light, with your headlights off.
But...Does this mean that the tyres are filled with oxygen? That could be "nice" as well.
But...Does this mean that the tyres are filled with oxygen? That could be "nice" as well.
Let's get off the blame game and criminality discussions and into the training compentence (are these guys certified?) and quality assurance arena.
How often are these systems used? How long could this problem have existed?
How often are these systems used? How long could this problem have existed?
Anyone who has ever worked with Quality Assurance, ISO-9000, and all that stuff will be only too aware that, alas, it does little in terms of avoiding blunders (which are generally prevented by commonsense anyway) and a great deal towards keeping paperpushers in jobs.
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Aviation's excellent safety record has only been achieved because people are willing to admit their mistakes without fear of the Police knocking on their door.
As soon as you introduce phrases such as 'criminal negligence' for what passes as human error - or even human stupidity - our industry will move backwards. It's why we have ASRs, MORs and safety bulletins - to learn from others' mistakes and to publicise our own errors without fear of prosecution.
The system seems to have worked in this case. Introduce prosecution and you introduce cover-up and conspiracy.
As soon as you introduce phrases such as 'criminal negligence' for what passes as human error - or even human stupidity - our industry will move backwards. It's why we have ASRs, MORs and safety bulletins - to learn from others' mistakes and to publicise our own errors without fear of prosecution.
The system seems to have worked in this case. Introduce prosecution and you introduce cover-up and conspiracy.
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Whilst this is a pretty massive blunder, the point about having a "no blame" culture is a very valid one.
Having said that though, what sort of dumbass would change the connectors over without checking?
Luckily this incident didin't lead to any further problems or disasters, but if it had someone would definately be getting their collar felt.
Having said that though, what sort of dumbass would change the connectors over without checking?
Luckily this incident didin't lead to any further problems or disasters, but if it had someone would definately be getting their collar felt.
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Oxygen fittings on Boeing Aircraft are left-handed threads, whilst Airbus use right-hand threads, the aircraft carries an adapter to fit the oxygen rigs! Murphy proof??
A sign to employers to ensure that staff need to be adequately trained and strictly from Aircraft recognised backgrounds for the degradation of this standard is becoming more common place.
A sign to employers to ensure that staff need to be adequately trained and strictly from Aircraft recognised backgrounds for the degradation of this standard is becoming more common place.
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I agree that talk of criminal charges should be silenced. I'm a firm believer in the no-blame culture. Everyone makes mistakes. Bravo Zulu to Qantas for alerting other carriers and openly admitting it, so that lives can be spared and perhaps more importantly, a lesson is learned.
Perhaps the contractors involved though that since nitrogen is the main component in air, then it would do the same job as oxygen?
Flying Pram, funny comment, but it could well be true. I met a guy a few weeks ago that didn't know CO2 was toxic if the room is filled with it. How does the saying go, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing????
Does this mean that the tires are filled with oxygen? That could be "nice" as well.
Perhaps the contractors involved though that since nitrogen is the main component in air, then it would do the same job as oxygen?
Flying Pram, funny comment, but it could well be true. I met a guy a few weeks ago that didn't know CO2 was toxic if the room is filled with it. How does the saying go, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing????
Does this mean that the tires are filled with oxygen? That could be "nice" as well.
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I recall reading a similar story about a Hunter pilot in the RAF suffering hypoxia - so he switched from airmix to 100% but he was getting 100% Nitrogen and it just made the problem worse.
He just had enough wits left to descend below 10,000' and remove his mask to breath ambient air.
He just had enough wits left to descend below 10,000' and remove his mask to breath ambient air.
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Opposite thing happened in the RNZAF in the 70's.
A4 Skyhawk Gun Nitrogen Accumulator filled with Oxygen.
Resulting fire nearly cost the aircraft.
Cause: Nitrogen Bottles all black, Oxygen Bottles black with a blue green top?
Battered oxy bottles had most of the blue green paint missing.
Cure: Stores not to accept gas bottles unless colour coding paint in pristine condition.
A4 Skyhawk Gun Nitrogen Accumulator filled with Oxygen.
Resulting fire nearly cost the aircraft.
Cause: Nitrogen Bottles all black, Oxygen Bottles black with a blue green top?
Battered oxy bottles had most of the blue green paint missing.
Cure: Stores not to accept gas bottles unless colour coding paint in pristine condition.
Perhaps the contractors involved though that since nitrogen is the main component in air,
A sign to employers to ensure that staff need to be adequately trained and strictly from Aircraft recognised backgrounds for the degradation of this standard is becoming more common place.
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As I understand it if you breath pure nitrogen you might not notice untill too late. No CO2 in your lungs so it doesn't feel like you are suffocating.
First, free air is 70%+ nitrogen; nitrogen is not inherently poisonous.
Second, even at altitude we can breathe easily with less than 100% O2. Only in extreme cases and/or for prolonged periods at high altitude would the effects of an N2 mixture be noticeable.
As an example, say a system that is normally at 1200 psi goes below the 900 psi minimum, and needs to be topped off. Now it is about 25% N2 and 75% O2. There is over 3 times as much O2 in the mix than in free air, so the user would get a sea-level partial pressure of O2 to above 20,000' cabin altitude (using the guide that 18,000' ~~ half standard atmospheric pressure), and a breathable mixture above that.
So, while it IS a gross error on the part of the people who did it, it is NOT necessarily an immediately critical problem unless they were filling EMPTY O2 systems -- not just "topping off" as described in the article.