US House of Representatives passes the Freedom to Fly act of 2007

[Decolar]

Age 65 in U.S. -signed by Pres. Bush

Was already passed by House, and also Senate. Last night it was signed by Bush.

How will this affect the manpower situation for the airlines that hire U.S. pilots?

What effect will this have on the hiring agencies that I see advertise on this website, PilotsDirect, Rishworth, etc?

[hetfield]

Sometimes Mr. Bush isn't too bad....

[MYROSTERSUCKS]

65yrs

you mean the sixty odd 777 skippers sitting in India to fly for Jet airways!!!!!!!! :-)

[B767PL]

I bet all the guys at the regional level in the U.S are jumping for joy about this at the moment. But it will benefit them in the future as well.

When contract negotiations come up for all the regional pilots that are now facing the crap pay, they better be pulling together and stay their ground for higher pay, as well as T&C's considering they might end up stuck where they are for a while.

A possible across the board hiring slow down for the next 5 years?

[oceancrosser]

B767pl

A possible across the board hiring slow down for the next 5 years?

That has not been the experience elsewhere, it will not be compulsory to fly to 65. Some will lose their medical, others will choose to leave earlier etc.

US pilots may be worse off than others though having had paycuts and lost retirement funds (the US retirement funding system does leave something to be desired) and ultimately the dismal exchange rate of the dollar.

We might even see older US pilots flocking overseas to cash in on the exchange rate and tax-free salaries (yes I know Uncle Sams tries to come after it) for a few years and then retire.

The airline pilot profession in the US is distinctly different from the rest of the world as far as pilots there being fairly "old" when they join the bigger airlines.
And regional airlines pay is appalling.

[Huck]

The airline pilot profession in the US is distinctly different from the rest of the world as far as pilots there being fairly "old" when they join the bigger airlines.
And regional airlines pay is appalling.

Not for long. At least the first part.

US Civil aviation is drying up. Student starts are down. Regional carriers are hurting for people. The TSA and the FAA have sucked the lure out of general aviation, and Bush is pressing for user fees.

And "license harmonization" is today what "ICAO age limit standardization" was five years ago.

If I were a betting man I'd put all my money in overseas flying academies. In ten years the cockpits in the U.S will look like the bridges of today's container ships.....

[B767PL]

oceancrosser, I hope you are correct in saying that my thought has not been the case elsewhere. But as you have mentioned, pilots elsewhere have not been shafted so thoroughly over the last years as they have in the U.S and that may play a significant role, seeing as many of those pilots I think will likely try to work a couple of extra years to earn back what they had lost.


Huck, I hope you are correct as well. The flight schools and other CFI's in my area, are all saying they dont remember the last time it was so slow, even ones that have been doing it for years. Actually, just 1 minute ago as I was typing this an FAA examiner stopped by and we got on the topic, and he said the same thing! That everyone in the area is slooww. Might just be a slow period, maybe itll pick up, but gives you something to think about I suppose. I wonder if its like this in other states at local FBO's (not pilot factories).

I don't think there is a place on this earth where the pilot profession has been decimated so much. If regional guys arent able to fight for better pay and conditions in upcomming contract negotiations, and this age 65 thing does in fact slow hiring, I will feel sorry for them and myself, as I will be in that position as well. ....

I'll just start leaving tip-jars by the flight deck door

[Skydrol Leak]

I just love how all this legislations are getting passed by the people in senate who most of them never had an experience flying a real aircraft as a pilot.
Probably the biggest excitement was knowing a pilot next door. Yet they decide about on how old you have to be on your last trip of your life as a professional pilot, never minding the fact that you have put in 40+ years of your life serving the public interest.
At least my point of view...

[B767PL]

Skydrol Leak

I believe the whole motion was voted for, and approved by ALPA ahead of time. So I suppose that the people in the senate are acting under the suggestion of ALPA, and trusting that they know more in the field then themselves, kinda like advisors. This is what I would hope anyways, as you are completely correct.

[Raas767]

The most junior B777 First Officers at my airline have been there 15 years. We have had the worst stagnation in the history of the airline. From my perspective all this does is extend my time in the right seat by 5 years, for a total of 20, where I have to babysit some old captain drooling all over himself on South America all nighters!
For a lot of us this is a disaster!

[Huck]

I believe the whole motion was voted for, and approved by ALPA ahead of time.

By the BOD, but not by the membership.

We voted against it. Overwhelmingly.

[DesiPilot]

This is what I just received from the FAA.

FAASTeam - FAASafety.gov

InFO - President Today Signed Age 65 Into Law
Notice Number: NOTC1079

Subject:
President Today Signed Age 65 Into Law, Affecting Pilots Under Part 121

Purpose:
This InFO announces the "Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act" (the Act), effective immediately, December 13, 2007, and highlights key provisions of the Act.

Background:
In November, 2006, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) revised the maximum age for certain pilots in international operations from age 60 to age 65. Until 12/13/07, the United States, an ICAO member state, limited its pilots operating under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 121 to age 60. Now those pilots may continue until age 65, as specified in the Act.

Discussion:
Key provisions of the Act include the following:

. As of 12/13/07, part 121, § 121.383(c), specifying age 60, ceases to be effective.

. A pilot age 60+ acting as pilot in command (PIC) in international operations must be paired with a pilot under age 60 (consistent with the current ICAO requirement).

. In domestic operations both pilots may be age 60+.

. It permits the continued employment of a pilot who reaches age 60 on or after 12/13/07.

. It permits the employment as a new-hire a pilot who reached age 60 before 12/13/07.

. A pilot age 60+ will not be subjected to different, greater, or more frequent medical exams.

. Any pilot age 60+ must hold a first-class medical certificate, renewable on a 6-month cycle.

. Any air carrier employing pilots age 60+ must adjust its training program to ensure such pilots' skill and judgment continue at acceptable levels.

. Any pilot age 60+ must undergo a line check at 6-month intervals.

. For a pilot age 60+ acting as second in command (SIC), a regularly scheduled simulator evaluation may substitute for a required line check.

Recommended Action:
Directors of safety, directors of operations, chief pilots, trainers, and pilots under part 121 should be aware of the Act and should collaborate immediately in implementing its provisions.

The exact language of the Act can be downloaded at the following public Web site:
http://thomas.loc.gov . In the "Search Bill Text" box click on "Bill Number," enter "HR 4343" and click Search.

An InFO contains valuable information for operators that should help them meet certain administrative, regulatory, or operational requirements with relatively low urgency or impact on safety.

For more information on this and other InFO's please go to the following URL:

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat...ne_safety/info

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[GlueBall]

F/Os "Raas767" and "Huck:" Print and save your comments. Read them again when you turn age 57 or so.

[411A]

US Civil aviation is drying up. Student starts are down. Regional carriers are hurting for people. The TSA and the FAA have sucked the lure out of general aviation....

Really?
That must be why business jet sales are at an all time high, and expected to remain so for about five-seven more years.

And, as for student starts, who cares...plenty of us older guys around in very good health to carry the load...

[Tandemrotor]

Oceancrosser wrote:

it will not be compulsory to fly to 65.

That is indeed true for anyone who has already reached the peak of their career. eg LHS of a longhaul a/c.

They have many choices.

However for the likes of Raas 767, and perhaps Huck it is far more of a compulsion than an 'option'.

If they wish to achieve that job at the 'peak' of their career, and make up for 5 years of salary stagnation, they will have few choices.

Such is the way of the World.

Just don't stuff it down their throats!

[411A]

Don't fret, Raas767, just think of your added time in the RHS as a character-building exercise.

From my perspective*, well worthwhile.

*Keeping in mind that in my particular circumstance, I personally never was in the RHS of a jet...any jet... started directly in the LHS of a heavy jet, a 4-engine one.
Of course, a fair bit of RHS flying in large piston and trubopropeller types.

One wonders...can 70 be far behind?

[Huck]

Glueball, et al... I won't insult your intelligence by pointing out the odds that a pilot will make it to 57 at the controls of a heavy jet, much less at a premier company with good pay.

So... at 57, you KNOW you've made it, and yes, your perspective has changed.

At 41, I figure on a 60-70% chance of making it to 57 unscathed by either FAA doctors or company MBA's. So quite frankly I'd take a bird in the hand, right now.

As the 70-year-old pilot of a Beech 18 told me when I was first starting out twenty years ago: "It's all whose ox is getting gored...."

411 - I've never asked - do you/did you own a C-411?

[411A]

411 - I've never asked - do you/did you own a C-411?

My corporation does, along with a CE441.
Nice aeroplane the CE411, provided they are flown correctly.
Smooth and surprisingly fast.
Picked up three from the factory brand new, many years ago.
Thinking about a KingAir now, perhaps shortly.
As for First officers 'trapped' in the RHS...perhaps I have been a bit unfair.
Yes, upgrades might be slowed, however these younger guys now have the opportunity to fly longer, if they so desire.
And, I suspect many will...if for no other reason than to 'pay' for the now-divorced spouse.
I don't have that particular difficulty, however I do enjoy contract flying for part of the year, overseas.
And, on a TriStar, I'm certainly not keeping anyone in the RHS...

[Desert Diner]

where I have to babysit some old captain drooling all over himself on South America all nighters!

Raas, you need to meet more people

[Airbubba]

One of the MEC told me the NWA response to the FE's over sixty was "f*ck 'em." A little harsh, maybe, but hard to argue with, if you truly represent all the pilots, not just the ones of a certain vintage.

I suppose the NWA MEC will have to do a reassessment of their position in light of recent events.

Nobody in either house of Congress cast a single vote in opposition to the age change. I guess it wasn't so controversial after all. Looks like the whiners on the ALPA forums did little or nothing to oppose the legislation outside union cyberspace. And, they'll be whining for years to come just like with every other change. I would have been happy either way and know that when the next round of mergers and bankruptcies hit, this will look like small change.

This rule change has been in the works for decades, I guess it reached a tipping point when the FAA got onboard after pressure from ALPA. Looks like the feds were taking their sweet time implementing the new age limit so ALPA did an end run and ran it through Congress. I saw an old friend who is a former MEC chairman weeks ago and he confidently predicted the outcome, said they had their ducks in a row. I was skeptical but he was absolutely right.

Yes, upgrades might be slowed, however these younger guys now have the opportunity to fly longer, if they so desire.
And, I suspect many will...if for no other reason than to 'pay' for the now-divorced spouse.

Shhh, entirely true, but they don't know it yet...