UK Security, MORs and CHIRP
Join Date: Feb 2000
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One thing which may be worth pursuing for all airside users is to have a UK national aviation ID card.
While the implementation may be a drama, surely it would take away the hassles caused by individual fiefdoms of security having their own bailiwick and ideas. Thus, pilots and engineers should be able to at least get around trouble free.
Just a thought.
G'day
While the implementation may be a drama, surely it would take away the hassles caused by individual fiefdoms of security having their own bailiwick and ideas. Thus, pilots and engineers should be able to at least get around trouble free.
Just a thought.
G'day
Join Date: Jun 2004
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One thing which may be worth pursuing for all airside users is to have a UK national aviation ID card.
C'mon down here downunder - boy, can we teach you a thing or two about ASICs and AVIDs....
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hampshire physically; Perthshire and Pembrokeshire mentally.
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We are aware that some airports are still considering what the operational implications would be should they make a change to their procedures and thus, at present, there may still be some airports that have not embraced the guidance. In this regard, we are aware that BALPA is in communication with some such airports.
Regards.
Gerald Shanahan
Regards.
Gerald Shanahan
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Feather #3 has hit the nail on the head.
If the UK CAA issued licence holders, pilots and engineers, with ID cards and also issued cabin crew and everyone else - security staff included - it would make chuff all difference to the aircrew but would certainly be less than convenient for everyone else. Then perhaps they would be more " reasonable" and we would have less trouble transiting airports we aren't based at.
More dosh for the CAA too!!
If the UK CAA issued licence holders, pilots and engineers, with ID cards and also issued cabin crew and everyone else - security staff included - it would make chuff all difference to the aircrew but would certainly be less than convenient for everyone else. Then perhaps they would be more " reasonable" and we would have less trouble transiting airports we aren't based at.
More dosh for the CAA too!!
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Perhaps one could use this facility?
http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/E...he_PM_Form.asp
If sufficient e-mails were to arrive then the appropriate minister may get summoned to "sort this out ASAP".
Just my 'umble opinion as simple SLF, I would much prefer my flight crew unsearched and unstressed prior to flight.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David
http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/E...he_PM_Form.asp
If sufficient e-mails were to arrive then the appropriate minister may get summoned to "sort this out ASAP".
Just my 'umble opinion as simple SLF, I would much prefer my flight crew unsearched and unstressed prior to flight.
Hope it helps
Be lucky
David
Eagerbeaver1
Your friend was either lucky or privileged as flight crew. We went to Ottawa from Vancouver a few weeks ago as SLF (which is our normal status.) On the way out my wife carried a 6 oz tin of Coca Cola on and no one said a thing. On the way back we were stopped.
"You can't take that on a plane,"
"Oh, I am sorry, it wasn't a problem on the way out. Can I open it and drink it?"
"No, if you open it now we'll arrest you."
Barkin' mad, I tell you, the whole world has gone barkin' mad.
You don't want to get them upset at Canadian Airports either.
Your friend was either lucky or privileged as flight crew. We went to Ottawa from Vancouver a few weeks ago as SLF (which is our normal status.) On the way out my wife carried a 6 oz tin of Coca Cola on and no one said a thing. On the way back we were stopped.
"You can't take that on a plane,"
"Oh, I am sorry, it wasn't a problem on the way out. Can I open it and drink it?"
"No, if you open it now we'll arrest you."
Barkin' mad, I tell you, the whole world has gone barkin' mad.
You don't want to get them upset at Canadian Airports either.
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Here's a new one.
Luton security 0530Z with local based CC complete with Ltn ID.
Me Lgw ID, apparantly new DofT ruling Luton won't let me through until they ring the Duty Manager at Lgw and verify my ID.
Give you one guess how that worked at 0530.
Only a year to go before I can get out of this madhouse.
Luton security 0530Z with local based CC complete with Ltn ID.
Me Lgw ID, apparantly new DofT ruling Luton won't let me through until they ring the Duty Manager at Lgw and verify my ID.
Give you one guess how that worked at 0530.
Only a year to go before I can get out of this madhouse.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I really find it incredible that our (UK/JAA) licences don't carry a centralised form of photo id/security pass. This could then be tied to a common standard of access, rather than leaving it up to people to make local difficulties.
Lets face it. twice a year forms are completed with licence details confirmed.
A more cohesive form of 'security' is needed.
Lets face it. twice a year forms are completed with licence details confirmed.
A more cohesive form of 'security' is needed.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't that long ago that anyone with the Yellow Striped ( already security vetted) Air Side Pass was allowed virtually unrestricted access to most Western European airports and all UK airports?
What Happened? (before 911)
Money grabbing Local Airport Authorities is what happened, all wanting their share of the Security Pass Cash Cow at £xxx per pass to be renewed every year.
Absolutely nothing to do with Security at all!
Look at all the nail clippers, manicure scissors, nail files, 300ml and 500ml drinks that can be purchased once through "Security" and into the air side shopping malls.
Inconsistent? Yes, we were allowed through crew security channel yesterday with supposedly already security vetted crew food and allowed our 330 ml water bottles but had the 250 ml cartons of Milk for our breakfast cereals confiscated!
Security my @rse!
BR.
What Happened? (before 911)
Money grabbing Local Airport Authorities is what happened, all wanting their share of the Security Pass Cash Cow at £xxx per pass to be renewed every year.
Absolutely nothing to do with Security at all!
Look at all the nail clippers, manicure scissors, nail files, 300ml and 500ml drinks that can be purchased once through "Security" and into the air side shopping malls.
Inconsistent? Yes, we were allowed through crew security channel yesterday with supposedly already security vetted crew food and allowed our 330 ml water bottles but had the 250 ml cartons of Milk for our breakfast cereals confiscated!
Security my @rse!
BR.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Airport Security.
I just read an old CHIRP Air Transport which is a confidential reporting publication for Airline Crew ATCOs Mechanics and Cabin Crew.
There were shocking stories about the treatment by security staff.
One story was when a man was being searched and the security person touched his testicals. When he complained the supervisor said they could do whatever they ever they wanted. He asked for the police and the victim was arrested and had to have his employer bail him out and he had a court case hanging over him. Later he was told that he was free of any charges after the police viewed the security videos.
Now how can any democratic system allow this to happen. Some airports I have gone through there are arrogant security personel and treat families like animal who are going through. They seem to enjoy it.
How can it be that you have absolutely no right at all when you end up on someone on a powertrip.
In U.S.A. the security staff are suddenly federal employees and some of them used to work a month ago in McDonalds and treat you badly.
There was a case that security staff in the US were aiming out families from U.K. and Germany. The German Chancelor at the time Gerhard Schroeder took the issue up with the U.S. president at the time.
I know of a Captian going through security in the US after his flight kit came through the X-Ray machine his back was locked the Security Guy took out a tool to bake up the locks. When he stepped forward to open it he was told to step back and they broke it to open the bag. When he asked for a supervisor to complain. The supervisor turned his bag upside down so everything fell out. He said he would complain to higher authorities he was told he wouldnt be able to prove anything.
Now who regulates the security people and supervisors.
How come that they get to behave like gestapo in a democratic country.
I would like to point out that I am for a good security at airports.
However you should not on any circumstances show anyone disrespect or take their dignity away. Courtesy is free of charge and should be used at all times.
There were shocking stories about the treatment by security staff.
One story was when a man was being searched and the security person touched his testicals. When he complained the supervisor said they could do whatever they ever they wanted. He asked for the police and the victim was arrested and had to have his employer bail him out and he had a court case hanging over him. Later he was told that he was free of any charges after the police viewed the security videos.
Now how can any democratic system allow this to happen. Some airports I have gone through there are arrogant security personel and treat families like animal who are going through. They seem to enjoy it.
How can it be that you have absolutely no right at all when you end up on someone on a powertrip.
In U.S.A. the security staff are suddenly federal employees and some of them used to work a month ago in McDonalds and treat you badly.
There was a case that security staff in the US were aiming out families from U.K. and Germany. The German Chancelor at the time Gerhard Schroeder took the issue up with the U.S. president at the time.
I know of a Captian going through security in the US after his flight kit came through the X-Ray machine his back was locked the Security Guy took out a tool to bake up the locks. When he stepped forward to open it he was told to step back and they broke it to open the bag. When he asked for a supervisor to complain. The supervisor turned his bag upside down so everything fell out. He said he would complain to higher authorities he was told he wouldnt be able to prove anything.
Now who regulates the security people and supervisors.
How come that they get to behave like gestapo in a democratic country.
I would like to point out that I am for a good security at airports.
However you should not on any circumstances show anyone disrespect or take their dignity away. Courtesy is free of charge and should be used at all times.
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Concur entirely with Sikeano,
smile sweetly, let them carry out the job they are forced to do, remember that the vast majority of them are on the minimum wage and aren't little Hitlers - just doing an impossible job working to impossible directives, working for impossible management.
More importantly, remember that when you've got through the Security checkpoint, after being delayed by 5 mins or less, they'll still be in there earning **** all and you'll be out there earning significantly more and having a much better working life.
smile sweetly, let them carry out the job they are forced to do, remember that the vast majority of them are on the minimum wage and aren't little Hitlers - just doing an impossible job working to impossible directives, working for impossible management.
More importantly, remember that when you've got through the Security checkpoint, after being delayed by 5 mins or less, they'll still be in there earning **** all and you'll be out there earning significantly more and having a much better working life.
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I was coming through Detroit a few months ago and got stopped. The Security guy asked to search my bag, I agreed, he then pulled on latex gloves.
I said 'I'm getting worried now', he replied 'Sir, I don't get paid enough'.
I said 'I'm getting worried now', he replied 'Sir, I don't get paid enough'.
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I see, so if someone doesn't like their job and earns less than you, they can treat you like dirt and assault you and your suggestion niknak is "smile sweetly, let them carry out the job they are forced to do"
They are not forced to be rude, not wash, touch your genitals, laugh at you, empty your case on the floor, break your personal property etc etc. It is guys like you who allow the security staff to behave like that and so encouraging it and more.
They are not forced to be rude, not wash, touch your genitals, laugh at you, empty your case on the floor, break your personal property etc etc. It is guys like you who allow the security staff to behave like that and so encouraging it and more.
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For the first storey,
The Captain whose B@lls were touched, he was arrested for possible assualt, he asked the "security person" to "not do that again" unfourtuneatley he was about to when the captain went to guard his private area.
The security person complained to his senior that the captain struck him.
He got off as there CCTV showed he did not touch the guard, I think i heard that the guard was "spoken to".
If only they could see that they cause more problems than solve and that they are contributing more to safety issues than they stop.
Oh well back to the quagmire.
259
The Captain whose B@lls were touched, he was arrested for possible assualt, he asked the "security person" to "not do that again" unfourtuneatley he was about to when the captain went to guard his private area.
The security person complained to his senior that the captain struck him.
He got off as there CCTV showed he did not touch the guard, I think i heard that the guard was "spoken to".
If only they could see that they cause more problems than solve and that they are contributing more to safety issues than they stop.
Oh well back to the quagmire.
259
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The other day I went through security at Heathrow T1 in full Captains uniform (as a passenger).
As the only one in my line I had to take my shoes off, regular passengers not!
I was wondering about that and the "guard'' responded that all personnal always had to do this, who is being protected from whom!
When my laptop came through it was picked up and dropped pretty hard, pissed me off and I asked if he really didn't care at all what the public things about his profession, his answer was; do I look like I give a s
t what I do for a living!
No supervisor in the area, nice one.
As the only one in my line I had to take my shoes off, regular passengers not!
I was wondering about that and the "guard'' responded that all personnal always had to do this, who is being protected from whom!
When my laptop came through it was picked up and dropped pretty hard, pissed me off and I asked if he really didn't care at all what the public things about his profession, his answer was; do I look like I give a s
t what I do for a living!No supervisor in the area, nice one.
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TomCat as indeed most of us have and do on a daily basis.
What to do about it? BALPA start upping the ante and petitoning those in public office to change the ridiculous situation more publically.
If it is necessary to confiscate an offending item be it nailclippers or a suspected bottle of water why is there no further immediate action? Should the individual not be removed from flight until an investigation ensues. The nailclippers are restricted because they are perceived to be possibly used for nefarious acts why let someone off then. The suspected bottle of water/excess amount of aftershave etc may actually be something else and this wont be known until tested etc. So why just throw it away, after all there has been an attempt to smuggle through banned substances. It is strange with the current thinking that the individual is allowed to continue with their duty if the item is removed because it may be something dangerous will they not just ammend their 'plan'.
I do not believe the above should happen but cannot understand why it isnt if we are all perceived as potential terrorists and current thinking and security tactics are continued. It is an absolute disgrace that this situation is allowed to continue by our unions and ultimately ourselves.
What to do about it? BALPA start upping the ante and petitoning those in public office to change the ridiculous situation more publically.
If it is necessary to confiscate an offending item be it nailclippers or a suspected bottle of water why is there no further immediate action? Should the individual not be removed from flight until an investigation ensues. The nailclippers are restricted because they are perceived to be possibly used for nefarious acts why let someone off then. The suspected bottle of water/excess amount of aftershave etc may actually be something else and this wont be known until tested etc. So why just throw it away, after all there has been an attempt to smuggle through banned substances. It is strange with the current thinking that the individual is allowed to continue with their duty if the item is removed because it may be something dangerous will they not just ammend their 'plan'.
I do not believe the above should happen but cannot understand why it isnt if we are all perceived as potential terrorists and current thinking and security tactics are continued. It is an absolute disgrace that this situation is allowed to continue by our unions and ultimately ourselves.
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Who screens the security?
Some years back a SAUDIA B777 was hijacked enroute to Europe and diverted to Iraq. The hijackers were security personel from JED Airport.
An attempt was stopped by security in Algiers, when the head of airport anti terrorist unit was going to hijack a B747. He was found hiding in the cargo compartment.
All this was before sept 11th.
However one wonders with some places.
An attempt was stopped by security in Algiers, when the head of airport anti terrorist unit was going to hijack a B747. He was found hiding in the cargo compartment.
All this was before sept 11th.
However one wonders with some places.