1-2-GO, Thai Orient again.
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Dis-Orienthai'd
I don't think the JCAB in Japan is too worried about diplomatic relations.
These guys are banned from Japanese airpsace following a near successful attempt to take out Tokyo Tower about 3 years back on a late night 747 charter positioning flight into Haneda 16L.
These guys are banned from Japanese airpsace following a near successful attempt to take out Tokyo Tower about 3 years back on a late night 747 charter positioning flight into Haneda 16L.
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A letter of remiss? Is Udom & Namthon complicit as well?
For those you who are interested in the rot & corruption of this mickey mouse outfit, have alook at this letter that was posted on another website. (Apologies to the author, but it is so relevent to the discussion here, I copied and pasted it, but have also included the link at the bottom).,
One must bear in mind that a Post Holder/s in the Company has a responsibility to ensure a discharge of a level a safety that is at least the minimum set down by the regulator. Have they done so? If this letter is anything to go by I seriously doubt it.
The Link: http://nankantraz.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=219
I leave it upto you to decide. I know what I think! I hope the inquiry reveals the depth of corruption and deception that appears in this letter and those other incidences that have already been quoted earlier in this thread.
Udom and Namthon, a question for you both. How do you sleep at night? This will always be with you.
May They rest in peace.
One must bear in mind that a Post Holder/s in the Company has a responsibility to ensure a discharge of a level a safety that is at least the minimum set down by the regulator. Have they done so? If this letter is anything to go by I seriously doubt it.
Hi Herb,
You may have read about the crash of a MD82 in Phuket, Thailand, yesterday. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070917/...nd_plane_crash
My friend, C.M. (who wrote the email below) used to fly as co-pilot with me on the B727 for Express One out of Dallas. He currently is a training captain on the MD82 for the same airline (One-Two-Go Airlines) who just had the crash. I thought his email may be of interest to you.
Glyn
=====================
Hi Glyn
Thank you for the note. Yes am ok, but when all the facts come out, like most crashes it will be found it was totally unnecessary but was destined to happen.
The captain was an Indonesian who was the chief pilot. I had almost brought him to a physical altercation on several occasions with my taunting of him. I was highly critical of him for allowing and promoting the incredible abuse of duty and flight time limitations. (1300 to 1500 hours flying calendar year 2006) Guys flying 130 hours per month. Work schedules of 9 straight days and sometimes more. I would go up to him and ask him to sign a document (blank sheet of paper) saying company asked me to fly illegally again. I told them I would as soon as he would sign the papers allowing it. It drove him nuts. I kept doing it.
The man had failed his medical recently and was grounded for two months. He must have suffered from low blood sugar because all my First Officers would complain or laugh that he would always fall asleep in the afternoon flights. Apparently he recognized this and asked to be scheduled for early morning flights. The crash occurred at 3:40 pm.
The flight controls had to be taken from him on at least two occasions. One highly documented case occurred with the prime minister of Afghanistan on board. A safety pilot had observed his incompetence, reported the incident to company and he was removed from all subsequent flights with the prime minister.
I laugh at my fellow Indonesian pilots. Of course they come to his defense in this crash with the words that "it was an act of God". Maybe they are right.... God says you want to be a dumb sh*t, you deserve to die.
Glyn... he killed 3 very close friends of mine and I will never forgive him and I am not sure I can forgive myself. My only real purpose here was to teach the new Thai F/O s how to save their lives from people like Arief. Of the new Thai First Officers, Montri was the best. [Montri died in this crash] In fact Montri had just been hired by Thai Airlines with a class date in October. Montri had been particularly emotionally abused by this company. They did not really receive good instruction coming out of the simulators. He sat for two months before he did his bounces in the plane and he failed the first time. The company took 20,000 baht each month out of his paycheck to pay the costs incurred for a second set of bounces in the plane.
Glyn, I could go on and on with the terrible abuses that go on here. Me, I was and am physically and emotionally spent. I live everyday not knowing if the next day I will be fired. I have been told I am special here. I do not work illegally or knowingly fly unsafe airplanes. Working with the new pilots have been fun and gratifying. I share stories and lessons I learned from you. For me you re enforced cockpit discipline and attention to detail that I still carry with me. Many times when I go to the MEL, my thoughts go to you and how you illustrated the importance to refer to it every single time regardless. I thank you and others for what you have taught me. I have no doubt that the mental preparation and discipline that you and others illustrated to me and I learned from has saved my own life. I thank you so very much.
Sorry for writing so much. Last night was long and these are the first moments I have had to myself. Much crying and pain here. Cabin crewmembers besides themselves, pleading me to go and bring their crewmembers back. It is a very helpless feeling. Everyone here knows my feelings and that which I have been expressing for two years.
1 week ago I had been interviewed by two representatives from ICAO and had expressed to them that all of the ingredients for a disaster here had manifested itself. Yet I and nobody could do a stupid thing to stop it. Not sure what I will do from here Glyn, but I will always feel that I failed.... again.
You may have read about the crash of a MD82 in Phuket, Thailand, yesterday. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070917/...nd_plane_crash
My friend, C.M. (who wrote the email below) used to fly as co-pilot with me on the B727 for Express One out of Dallas. He currently is a training captain on the MD82 for the same airline (One-Two-Go Airlines) who just had the crash. I thought his email may be of interest to you.
Glyn
=====================
Hi Glyn
Thank you for the note. Yes am ok, but when all the facts come out, like most crashes it will be found it was totally unnecessary but was destined to happen.
The captain was an Indonesian who was the chief pilot. I had almost brought him to a physical altercation on several occasions with my taunting of him. I was highly critical of him for allowing and promoting the incredible abuse of duty and flight time limitations. (1300 to 1500 hours flying calendar year 2006) Guys flying 130 hours per month. Work schedules of 9 straight days and sometimes more. I would go up to him and ask him to sign a document (blank sheet of paper) saying company asked me to fly illegally again. I told them I would as soon as he would sign the papers allowing it. It drove him nuts. I kept doing it.
The man had failed his medical recently and was grounded for two months. He must have suffered from low blood sugar because all my First Officers would complain or laugh that he would always fall asleep in the afternoon flights. Apparently he recognized this and asked to be scheduled for early morning flights. The crash occurred at 3:40 pm.
The flight controls had to be taken from him on at least two occasions. One highly documented case occurred with the prime minister of Afghanistan on board. A safety pilot had observed his incompetence, reported the incident to company and he was removed from all subsequent flights with the prime minister.
I laugh at my fellow Indonesian pilots. Of course they come to his defense in this crash with the words that "it was an act of God". Maybe they are right.... God says you want to be a dumb sh*t, you deserve to die.
Glyn... he killed 3 very close friends of mine and I will never forgive him and I am not sure I can forgive myself. My only real purpose here was to teach the new Thai F/O s how to save their lives from people like Arief. Of the new Thai First Officers, Montri was the best. [Montri died in this crash] In fact Montri had just been hired by Thai Airlines with a class date in October. Montri had been particularly emotionally abused by this company. They did not really receive good instruction coming out of the simulators. He sat for two months before he did his bounces in the plane and he failed the first time. The company took 20,000 baht each month out of his paycheck to pay the costs incurred for a second set of bounces in the plane.
Glyn, I could go on and on with the terrible abuses that go on here. Me, I was and am physically and emotionally spent. I live everyday not knowing if the next day I will be fired. I have been told I am special here. I do not work illegally or knowingly fly unsafe airplanes. Working with the new pilots have been fun and gratifying. I share stories and lessons I learned from you. For me you re enforced cockpit discipline and attention to detail that I still carry with me. Many times when I go to the MEL, my thoughts go to you and how you illustrated the importance to refer to it every single time regardless. I thank you and others for what you have taught me. I have no doubt that the mental preparation and discipline that you and others illustrated to me and I learned from has saved my own life. I thank you so very much.
Sorry for writing so much. Last night was long and these are the first moments I have had to myself. Much crying and pain here. Cabin crewmembers besides themselves, pleading me to go and bring their crewmembers back. It is a very helpless feeling. Everyone here knows my feelings and that which I have been expressing for two years.
1 week ago I had been interviewed by two representatives from ICAO and had expressed to them that all of the ingredients for a disaster here had manifested itself. Yet I and nobody could do a stupid thing to stop it. Not sure what I will do from here Glyn, but I will always feel that I failed.... again.
I leave it upto you to decide. I know what I think! I hope the inquiry reveals the depth of corruption and deception that appears in this letter and those other incidences that have already been quoted earlier in this thread.
Udom and Namthon, a question for you both. How do you sleep at night? This will always be with you.
May They rest in peace.
Bob Hawke
Your post above is neither your own opinions to be challenged, nor rumors or news.
If you personaly wish to denigrate an organization or society at least have the decency to stand by your own words and experiences and not point to trash websites
Your post above is neither your own opinions to be challenged, nor rumors or news.
If you personaly wish to denigrate an organization or society at least have the decency to stand by your own words and experiences and not point to trash websites
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Non pilot speaking
Now I will be trashed by everyone...anyway I feel I must write the following.
Could you explain me why pilots are working for Orient Thai if the company is so reckless and abusive.
Just a google search of "aircraft pilot shortage in asia" gave thousands of links...
If the company is so bad, leave and get a new job, seems there is no shortage of jobs for qualified pilots...
Cheers
Now I will be trashed by everyone...anyway I feel I must write the following.
Could you explain me why pilots are working for Orient Thai if the company is so reckless and abusive.
Just a google search of "aircraft pilot shortage in asia" gave thousands of links...
If the company is so bad, leave and get a new job, seems there is no shortage of jobs for qualified pilots...
Cheers
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FrequentSLF,
To me it seems that most good pilots have left the outfit and they have been hiring many pilots not suited for the job. Pilots that canīt get a job elsewhere.
The fact that you have managed to obtain a CPL (Commercial Pilot License) doesnīt mean that you are able to safely pilot a passenger jet, even if not an emergency.
The checkride for CPL is done in a small twin engine aircraft (piston) which is easy to fly and the tests are not difficult.
To me it seems that most good pilots have left the outfit and they have been hiring many pilots not suited for the job. Pilots that canīt get a job elsewhere.
The fact that you have managed to obtain a CPL (Commercial Pilot License) doesnīt mean that you are able to safely pilot a passenger jet, even if not an emergency.
The checkride for CPL is done in a small twin engine aircraft (piston) which is easy to fly and the tests are not difficult.
lomapaseo, if that is not rumour or news then what is ????
It's akin to my posting an article on this board which I saw on Myspace.com that said that you are a liar, a cheat and a womanizer. (don't blame me I'm only the messenger)
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I read that on the EVA pilots forum www.nankantraz.org
Dont know if the letter is entirely credible though. But it sure sounds like a scary outfit.
Dont know if the letter is entirely credible though. But it sure sounds like a scary outfit.
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lomapaseo,
How pathetic your statement is! Of course I have "direct" experience. I damn well know what goes on, and this letter says it all. Been there, done that, and got out.
You want to be part of the smoke screen? You want to make trashy statements about denigrating a society or organisation?You are way off the mark Mister! Why don't you move to Mynmar, I'm sure you'll be a success there.
The facts will speak for themselves and if the investigators do a decent job of checking the company and its operations, all shall be revealed. This letter highlights what it's like and I have a copy of another letter from another OT pilot that says similar things, written 2 years ago, and another 3 years ago. I know the pilots concerned. OT have known for along time these problems, they have chosen not to address them, and in the opinion of aforementioned letter, there is delibirate culture being fostered to avoid regulatory responsibilities. Organisational pathagen is the term, if you must know, and it is a crucial factor in Human Factors analysis of most accidents.
So whilst you feel "offended" about the letter denigrating some farcical misguided concept of yours, how about getting hard nosed about the surrounding issues that lead to the crash and take a care for those who died, and do them justice by allowing the facts to emerge, in order that this does not happen again.
Again, Rest in Peace,to those that died needlessly, in my opinion.
How pathetic your statement is! Of course I have "direct" experience. I damn well know what goes on, and this letter says it all. Been there, done that, and got out.
You want to be part of the smoke screen? You want to make trashy statements about denigrating a society or organisation?You are way off the mark Mister! Why don't you move to Mynmar, I'm sure you'll be a success there.
The facts will speak for themselves and if the investigators do a decent job of checking the company and its operations, all shall be revealed. This letter highlights what it's like and I have a copy of another letter from another OT pilot that says similar things, written 2 years ago, and another 3 years ago. I know the pilots concerned. OT have known for along time these problems, they have chosen not to address them, and in the opinion of aforementioned letter, there is delibirate culture being fostered to avoid regulatory responsibilities. Organisational pathagen is the term, if you must know, and it is a crucial factor in Human Factors analysis of most accidents.
So whilst you feel "offended" about the letter denigrating some farcical misguided concept of yours, how about getting hard nosed about the surrounding issues that lead to the crash and take a care for those who died, and do them justice by allowing the facts to emerge, in order that this does not happen again.
Again, Rest in Peace,to those that died needlessly, in my opinion.
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Before we get into a catfight about the above 'letter' you may want to do your research a bit better. Have a look at this letter that was posted on PPRuNe on the 18th September, 2 days after the 1-2-go crash on the MD80 plane crash in Phuket
The letter posted above by Bob Hawke was posted on some other website on 25th September, a full week after it was published on PPRuNe. I leave you to observe the similarities and draw your own conclusions.
Unless the contributors to this thread can enlighten us to something not already discussed elsewhere then it will be closed. Please, use a bit of intelligence before posting!
In fact, after consideration, I will refer you all back to the MD80 plane crash in Phuket thread where you can take your time and read what has already been posted before regurgitating old news and trying to scratch each others eyes out.
The letter posted above by Bob Hawke was posted on some other website on 25th September, a full week after it was published on PPRuNe. I leave you to observe the similarities and draw your own conclusions.
Unless the contributors to this thread can enlighten us to something not already discussed elsewhere then it will be closed. Please, use a bit of intelligence before posting!
In fact, after consideration, I will refer you all back to the MD80 plane crash in Phuket thread where you can take your time and read what has already been posted before regurgitating old news and trying to scratch each others eyes out.
