View Poll Results: Was the pilot of this display acting dangerously?
I AM a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,571
46.22%
I AM a professional pilot and I believe NO
360
10.59%
I AM NOT a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,024
30.13%
I Am NOT a professional pilot and I believe NO
311
9.15%
I have no opinion
133
3.91%
Voters: 3399. This poll is closed
Video footage of TAP A310 in extreme low flying turn at airshow
Hand Solo you beat me to it. Complete lack of any discipline, this guy was totally reckless. If the airline don't deal with this event accordingly the National CAA should hang him out to dry.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Rosterwilltell
Age: 68
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Display done right
With military roots having flown many displays at airshows even at low altitude and now for many thousand hours on medium and heavy transport in training i can just say this guy and more people on the ground were lucky to survive.
If he got his maths right for bank and height he forgot maybe the slant height on the RA
It looks like he forgot an plane has wings on
And if someone tells me he is used to this by flying to FNC frquently we should aviod this operator
An low pass looks by the way best at 150ft wings level and at moderate speed gear up.
cheers
If he got his maths right for bank and height he forgot maybe the slant height on the RA
It looks like he forgot an plane has wings on
And if someone tells me he is used to this by flying to FNC frquently we should aviod this operator
An low pass looks by the way best at 150ft wings level and at moderate speed gear up.
cheers
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: U.K
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have a look at this: http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=BWdDHGEMQ2Q if your going to tell me its just a camera affect and the wingtip was miles above the ground because it sloped away, then the airfield must be on the top of a friggin mountain.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Completely against all regulations about diplays at airshows. We can discuss about 5ft or 10ft wingtip clearance and about difficulty to judge the real height from pictures or video footage. One thing is for sure: he was way to low!
Maybe in Portugal there are different rules for displays at airshows but in almost any other country in Europe you would have a big problem after this stunt. Totally unprofessional and quite dangerous.
Maybe in Portugal there are different rules for displays at airshows but in almost any other country in Europe you would have a big problem after this stunt. Totally unprofessional and quite dangerous.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In this vid (bash me if I'm wrong
) you'll see he's in control and knows what he's doing:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=CVIAiy-LNvs
) you'll see he's in control and knows what he's doing:http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=CVIAiy-LNvs
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: eu sw corner
Age: 76
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whether he's a crazy fool or a god of the skies, if something went awry, he'd have taken plenty of other souls out in a fireball. Here's a view of his gear-up flypast
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=zXGTfS...elated&search=
Neg, this one was for spotters saluting, the hi speed?
this one...http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=sneYFUtiKKc
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=zXGTfS...elated&search=
Neg, this one was for spotters saluting, the hi speed?
this one...http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=sneYFUtiKKc
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The front end and about 50ft up
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can't see the wingtip clearance in that clip at all, so it's not much use. I cannot believe that this chap had a display clearance of, say for example, 10ft, so I suggest that he is almost certainly breaking his legal minima and leaving almost zero safety margin. Not very clever.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Somewhere between Europe and Africa
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When people make judjement about what happened by watching pictures and films, they are becaming the journalists they despise so much.
I believe that if you asked the pilots who were at the show what they thought of the maneuver, you would get different statistics.
And another thing, let's raise the level of forum by refraining to call idiot and stupid to the people you don't agree with.
Check Six Krueger...
I believe that if you asked the pilots who were at the show what they thought of the maneuver, you would get different statistics.
And another thing, let's raise the level of forum by refraining to call idiot and stupid to the people you don't agree with.
Check Six Krueger...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The answer is YES, MrSoft. It is practice, skill and exact readout of height above terrain from the radio altimeter.
It does not calculate wingtip clearance in a 30 degree bank.... I;m not sure but in a turn rad alt may over read considerably due to simple trigonometry.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Near Stalyvegas
Age: 78
Posts: 2,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a clip on Jetblast of a Varig B727 doing a LOW flyby...and turn. The difference between the two is 200+kts..
In 40+ years of both Civ and Mil aviation I have seen some hair raising flying, but this is rather close to the knuckle.
watp,iktch
In 40+ years of both Civ and Mil aviation I have seen some hair raising flying, but this is rather close to the knuckle.
watp,iktch
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm pretty sure statistically you've got a higher chance of killing someone doing three figures in your Porsche on the motorway than you have doing a low pass in a commercial jet...
Puts things in perspective doesn't it?
Why doesn't an Airbus pilot with access to a sim tell us whether an empty A310 is recoverable from an engine failure at 150ft in a 30 degree banked turn?
Personally, I'll give the pilots the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
Because I am a pilot.
On the assumption they did practise the manoeuvre in the sim, I'd be surprised if they didn't cater for this eventuality.
Puts things in perspective doesn't it?
Why doesn't an Airbus pilot with access to a sim tell us whether an empty A310 is recoverable from an engine failure at 150ft in a 30 degree banked turn?
Personally, I'll give the pilots the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
Because I am a pilot.
On the assumption they did practise the manoeuvre in the sim, I'd be surprised if they didn't cater for this eventuality.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The front end and about 50ft up
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That was NOT 150ft.
Well that's alright then. No problem at all with knocking around at ultra low level in a commercial airliner!
I'm pretty sure statistically you've got a higher chance of killing someone doing three figures in your Porsche on the motorway than you have doing a low pass in a commercial jet...
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Near Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hello!
It certainly does. But if they have done their homework before taking off (i.e. practised in the sim and studied their trigonometry), then they knew at which radar altitude in level flight they can safely execute a 30 degree banked turn without hitting anything. Plain mathematics and physics.
And as for display regulations and pilots observing them, just look where the "big" airshow crashes with lots of fatalities took place. I don't see Portugal on that list, but rather countries like Germany, one of the most severly regulated places in the world... (and if I remember correctly, the UK has lost a few dozen spectators in airshow accidents as well over the years).
Greetings, Max
It does not calculate wingtip clearance in a 30 degree bank.... I;m not sure but in a turn rad alt may over read considerably due to simple trigonometry.
And as for display regulations and pilots observing them, just look where the "big" airshow crashes with lots of fatalities took place. I don't see Portugal on that list, but rather countries like Germany, one of the most severly regulated places in the world... (and if I remember correctly, the UK has lost a few dozen spectators in airshow accidents as well over the years).
Greetings, Max
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Simply put, the pilot is a prat. No question. Why you imbeciles who contribute to this madness continue to defend the imbecile who was trying to fly the aircraft is beyond me!
He and his fellow crew are lucky, very lucky, to be alive.
He and his fellow crew are lucky, very lucky, to be alive.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LPFL
Age: 60
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just an SLF here (in Portugal so TAP are my home team!) but my first thought was also that cameras do lie so there would be some rational explanation such as the ground sloping away out of sight so perfectly safe height AGL when he commenced the turn.
What are the rules about how high it's safe to start a turn? It should be no different for a regular flight with pax aboard or an airshow for fear of collateral damage on the ground.
Until I hear - from a readout of the FDR etc., not YouTube! - this crew broke rules, I give them the benefit of the doubt. Indeed (to be more positive) I've seen nothing to make me doubt the professionalism of TAP Portugal.
Rgds, M63
PS I voted in the poll "I don't have a view" because I'm not qualified to express a view, one way or t'other.
What are the rules about how high it's safe to start a turn? It should be no different for a regular flight with pax aboard or an airshow for fear of collateral damage on the ground.
Until I hear - from a readout of the FDR etc., not YouTube! - this crew broke rules, I give them the benefit of the doubt. Indeed (to be more positive) I've seen nothing to make me doubt the professionalism of TAP Portugal.
Rgds, M63
PS I voted in the poll "I don't have a view" because I'm not qualified to express a view, one way or t'other.