View Poll Results: Was the pilot of this display acting dangerously?
I AM a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,571
46.22%
I AM a professional pilot and I believe NO
360
10.59%
I AM NOT a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,024
30.13%
I Am NOT a professional pilot and I believe NO
311
9.15%
I have no opinion
133
3.91%
Voters: 3399. This poll is closed
Video footage of TAP A310 in extreme low flying turn at airshow
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
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A quick troll through airliners.net will reveal this kind of thing has been going on for years, and in aircraft bigger than a A310.
As for judging wingtip height above ground, its simple trigonometry. The fact that it is an airliner doesn't change Phythagoras Theorem.
For me the call hinges on whether they intended their tip clearance to be what it was...
As for judging wingtip height above ground, its simple trigonometry. The fact that it is an airliner doesn't change Phythagoras Theorem.
For me the call hinges on whether they intended their tip clearance to be what it was...
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"simple trigonometry" , Yes, on paper.
Visualy from cockpit height is a different matter. Don't tell me they calculated exactly that at X altitude they could bank Y degrees so that the wing tip was just of the ground. No way.
If this was intentional, than it borders on the criminal side.
If not, then it proves that they were not capable of display flying.
Visualy from cockpit height is a different matter. Don't tell me they calculated exactly that at X altitude they could bank Y degrees so that the wing tip was just of the ground. No way.
If this was intentional, than it borders on the criminal side.
If not, then it proves that they were not capable of display flying.
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Announcement by TAP of the event on their website
Quote of pressrelease 6467 (in portuguese) on the flytap.com site dated September 14th, 2007 :
Babelfish translation:
A TAP vai prestar uma homenagem ŕ sua frota A310, este sábado, dia 15 de Setembro, no Portugal Air Show em Évora, com um voo de exibiçăo que está previsto para as 14H45. Com quatro mil horas de voo em A310, César Brito, o último comandante a chefiar esta frota na Companhia, e o Comandante Vítor Pereira, văo sobrevoar o aeródromo municipal de Évora marcando assim o início do phase out da frota A310.
The TAP goes to give a homage to its fleet A310, this Saturday, day 15 of September, in Portugal Air Show in Évora, with one flight of exhibition that is foreseen for 14H45. With four a thousand hours of flight in A310, César Brito, the last commander to command this fleet in the Company, and the Commander Vítor Pereira, goes to fly over the municipal aerodrome of Évora thus marking the beginning of "phase out" of the A310 fleet.
Last edited by Dutch Mill; 19th Sep 2007 at 08:06. Reason: layout changed
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Just liked to leave a couple of key sentences on this subject that I found on another discussion forum...
"I think if the PIC would have a look at these video's he would probably admit that that was a bit to close."
"Looks like another airshow disaster in the making to me! Aren't all the pilots killed in airshows experts in their fields? They are - until they overcook it and unfortunately spread themselves all over the runway! When watching that video, part of me almost expects the aircraft to gently sideslip into the ground, it is a damn great airliner after all, not some overpowered "paraffin budgie" of a fighter..."
"I think if the PIC would have a look at these video's he would probably admit that that was a bit to close."
"Looks like another airshow disaster in the making to me! Aren't all the pilots killed in airshows experts in their fields? They are - until they overcook it and unfortunately spread themselves all over the runway! When watching that video, part of me almost expects the aircraft to gently sideslip into the ground, it is a damn great airliner after all, not some overpowered "paraffin budgie" of a fighter..."
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Not a professional pilot (disclaimer given...), but leaving no margin for error is not necessarily something to be done with a multi-million dollar aircraft and a large crowd of people. Poll seems to suggest most of the professionals agree.
Since people are posting youtube videos, perhaps someone could provide a link to that unintentionally exciting display by a similarly highly skilled SU27 driver a few years back. Especially thrilling is the one with the guy videoing his young family who turns around to see frontal aviation's finest cartwheeling past him through the crowd about 20 meters away...
Since people are posting youtube videos, perhaps someone could provide a link to that unintentionally exciting display by a similarly highly skilled SU27 driver a few years back. Especially thrilling is the one with the guy videoing his young family who turns around to see frontal aviation's finest cartwheeling past him through the crowd about 20 meters away...
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You only have to look at the survey results to see what the vast majority of pilots think of this spectacle.
If this was practised in a sim then it does not say much for the supervision or competence of those thinking that this was a good idea. The blind leading the blind is more likely.
If the low turn was done on the day as a "good idea" I could fathom it more clearly, but either way the individual concerned should explain himself to the company insurers and then the public he put in danger at the event. And for what - a thrill for the pilot flying because the spectators would not have given a rat's ar*se if it had been done at several hundred feet.
Thanks for bringing it to the attention of the wider pilot body. Interesting to see that the few defenders are also the pilots countrymen. Can't criticise your solidarity there - misplaced though it is.
If this was practised in a sim then it does not say much for the supervision or competence of those thinking that this was a good idea. The blind leading the blind is more likely.
If the low turn was done on the day as a "good idea" I could fathom it more clearly, but either way the individual concerned should explain himself to the company insurers and then the public he put in danger at the event. And for what - a thrill for the pilot flying because the spectators would not have given a rat's ar*se if it had been done at several hundred feet.
Thanks for bringing it to the attention of the wider pilot body. Interesting to see that the few defenders are also the pilots countrymen. Can't criticise your solidarity there - misplaced though it is.
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To those of you who think the pilots were skillfully executing a maneourvre practiced in the simulator, I ask you this.
What would you be writing here if he had made the turn a few metres lower and clipped the wing on the ground?
What would you be writing if it had been a few more metres lower and the aircraft cartwheeled into a rolling ball of flaming debris?
You would be conspicuous by your absence, I'm sure.
The pilots and those who think it was a wonderful piece of display flying, are genuinely misguided. The crew handling the aircraft, and anyone who apparently authorised it, are complete and utter idiots.
The pilots should be sacked and grounded permanently and the guy who authorised it, if indeed he did, should be on the street, jobless.
How any rational person, let alone a pilot, can look at that display of utter lunacy and say, well done, is sadly misinformed, ignorant or just plain stupid.
What would you be writing here if he had made the turn a few metres lower and clipped the wing on the ground?
What would you be writing if it had been a few more metres lower and the aircraft cartwheeled into a rolling ball of flaming debris?
You would be conspicuous by your absence, I'm sure.
The pilots and those who think it was a wonderful piece of display flying, are genuinely misguided. The crew handling the aircraft, and anyone who apparently authorised it, are complete and utter idiots.
The pilots should be sacked and grounded permanently and the guy who authorised it, if indeed he did, should be on the street, jobless.
How any rational person, let alone a pilot, can look at that display of utter lunacy and say, well done, is sadly misinformed, ignorant or just plain stupid.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Hello!
I was there that day. Nice to look at, but neither very low nor very spectecular and not dangerous at all. Nothing compared to what Airbus used to show with A300s and A310s at Le Bourget in the 80ies.
No, it is still called Eurowings, but does not operate Airbusses any more (see http://www.eurowings.de).
Greetings, Max
Just for comparison another airshow display which was low but in my humble opinion with more regards for safety than the A310 discussed here.
The airline has since changed its name to Germanwings.
Greetings, Max
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With the greatest respect to the current total of 46 professional pilots who have voted no - you really need to consider how 'professional' you are.
This flying was irresponsible to an extreme extent and could so easily have ended in tragic circumstances.
This flying was irresponsible to an extreme extent and could so easily have ended in tragic circumstances.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Guys you're the first with the howls and the cries when a newspaper publishes a photo of a "near miss" that is simply a parallax, or a "near crash" that turns out to be a crosswind landing.
So who here apart from a couple of qualified posters is familiar with évora field and its terrain? If not, then you're no better than your despised journalists for whom you have such derision. As I, you do not know what happened, you aren't familiar with the crew, the training or the location - all you have is a couple of limited viewpoints, yet your kangaroo court has already come to a hysterical judgement. Now off to the Northern Rock to withdraw your savings.
So who here apart from a couple of qualified posters is familiar with évora field and its terrain? If not, then you're no better than your despised journalists for whom you have such derision. As I, you do not know what happened, you aren't familiar with the crew, the training or the location - all you have is a couple of limited viewpoints, yet your kangaroo court has already come to a hysterical judgement. Now off to the Northern Rock to withdraw your savings.
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The fact that the runway may be on a crown of terrain really isn't that relevant. If they'd ingested a large bird down the engine during that stunt a couple of feets difference in elevation would only have added a milisecond or so to the time to impact. It's the people who know what could have gone wrong who are most surprised by that flight.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Hello!
About as easily as every single landing? Ever seen how close the wingtips come to the ground then? And with no excess energy to straighten or pull up if necessary and with zero safetey margin against the unexpected like the quoted birdstrikes or windshear!
But I wasn't there and I haven't talked to anyone who was, and most important: I haven't heard the pilots speak - so what can I say, other then the most basic statement of our law system: "In dubio pro reo."?
And therefore, I checked the "No" box.
Greetings, Max
This flying was irresponsible to an extreme extent and could so easily have ended in tragic circumstances
But I wasn't there and I haven't talked to anyone who was, and most important: I haven't heard the pilots speak - so what can I say, other then the most basic statement of our law system: "In dubio pro reo."?
And therefore, I checked the "No" box.
Greetings, Max
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Very professional pilots, being one of them Chief of Fleet saftey was never an issue, imagine you´ve to make a go around by any reason and you´ve to put the aircraft in that situation? By the amount of replys 80% of you guys in a situation like that you would crash the aircraft, i´m a pilot and not in a moment i think that the demonstration was dangerous, just one in hundred of demonstrations similar to that one.
And please check again definition of AIRSHOW!!!!!
And please check again definition of AIRSHOW!!!!!
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Quote:
The airline has since changed its name to Germanwings.
No, it is still called Eurowings, but does not operate Airbusses any more (see http://www.eurowings.de).
Greetings, Max
The airline has since changed its name to Germanwings.
No, it is still called Eurowings, but does not operate Airbusses any more (see http://www.eurowings.de).
Greetings, Max
Sorry for the OT.
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Tommy 1954
"You are wrong, the plane didn´t have passengers, only the captain (4000h in type) and co-pilot, and they did a great job .
Regards"
These pair of cowboys probably gave themselves a pat on the back for a job well done as they walked away from the jet with their spurs chinking. As a military pilot, I have seen some interesting flypasts but this was foolhardy to the extreme. They were LUCKY not to clip a wing and cartwheel into the ground which would have yet again have brought an unwelcome spotlight onto the aviation industry. Please, don't make it any easier for those, that would ban airtravel outright, to take the moral high ground. Fly Safe
BTW, there are plenty of pilots with 4000h+ who didnt get it right. The only conclusion is that he should have known better.
Old Pilots, Bold Pilots....
"You are wrong, the plane didn´t have passengers, only the captain (4000h in type) and co-pilot, and they did a great job .
Regards"
These pair of cowboys probably gave themselves a pat on the back for a job well done as they walked away from the jet with their spurs chinking. As a military pilot, I have seen some interesting flypasts but this was foolhardy to the extreme. They were LUCKY not to clip a wing and cartwheel into the ground which would have yet again have brought an unwelcome spotlight onto the aviation industry. Please, don't make it any easier for those, that would ban airtravel outright, to take the moral high ground. Fly Safe
BTW, there are plenty of pilots with 4000h+ who didnt get it right. The only conclusion is that he should have known better.
Old Pilots, Bold Pilots....
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only the captain (4000h in type) and co-pilot
And I don't mean any of that in a good way. 4000hrs or no.
Good for the airshow spectators, tho!
Cheerio!
CC
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People talk like the fact the guy was Chief Pilot makes it OK! I read Chief Pilot and alarm bells start ringing. Too much time in the office, lack of exposure to a real operating environment, a feeling of invincibility, over confidence, group think amongst fellow managers (who's going to tell him it's a bad idea, and would he listen if they did). This isn't like a normal landing or go around. Most responsible operators have an SOP that you don't turn below X hundred feet. Throwing in a swift left at 50 feet is a dumb move.