View Poll Results: Was the pilot of this display acting dangerously?
I AM a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,571
46.22%
I AM a professional pilot and I believe NO
360
10.59%
I AM NOT a professional pilot and I believe YES
1,024
30.13%
I Am NOT a professional pilot and I believe NO
311
9.15%
I have no opinion
133
3.91%
Voters: 3399. This poll is closed
Video footage of TAP A310 in extreme low flying turn at airshow
Join Date: Aug 2005
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kiwi, if you are talking about the race planes, yes three were busted for low flying this year, I am talking about the aerobatic and exhibition pilots like the guy dragging his wingtip doing his routine. He does the same thing every year and pulls it off every time. All the race planes have very strict rules on minimum altitudes and boundaries to not be disqualified.
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One race plane crashed right in front of the stands this year. It happened to be the jet race so left a quarter mile of fire with the main part right in front of us where it hit at about 500 mph. It was parallel to the runway on the far side so was no threat to the croud. The Airbus seemed to be following a similar path when it turned away from the croud. I have no reason to defend that pilot for his altitude but think he did not endanger the people on the ground watching his flyby. Seems like time to put this thread to rest.
Quote:
the performer is the one who decides how low he feels safe, not the observer
No... ?? is there a mispelling or a period missing?
the performer is the one who decides how low he feels safe, not the observer
Um sorry but I see one thing wrong with this statement.
Anyone else?!!!!!
Anyone else?!!!!!
Apache for HEMS - Strafe those Survivors!
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minimum altitudes for maneouvres are usually stipulated, they are not merely at the discretion of the handling pilot. Not making a "gate" height or speed in a display usually requires you not to continue with the planned maneouvre.
I have not watched the video and have no knowledge of the gates or minimums they were working to, I therefore do not feel qualified to offer an opinion on whether this was safe or not.
I did however fly as a display crew member, displaying a large aircraft, for 2 seasons many years ago. It was very enjoyable, but also demanding and pretty unforgiving. During those 2 seasons there were a number of fatal accidents, not making the "gate" was a factor in at least 2 that I recall.
I have not watched the video and have no knowledge of the gates or minimums they were working to, I therefore do not feel qualified to offer an opinion on whether this was safe or not.
I did however fly as a display crew member, displaying a large aircraft, for 2 seasons many years ago. It was very enjoyable, but also demanding and pretty unforgiving. During those 2 seasons there were a number of fatal accidents, not making the "gate" was a factor in at least 2 that I recall.
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There is a big difference between feeling safe and actually being safe.
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"and one must always make tradeoffs between safety vs getting the job done."
If you mean military ops in wartime, then yes by all means.
In civilian display flying there can be no trade off. Or do you mean that the job cannot be done above, say 100, feet?
If you mean military ops in wartime, then yes by all means.
In civilian display flying there can be no trade off. Or do you mean that the job cannot be done above, say 100, feet?
Bellwether&cloudbuster
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Technical question from a non driver here...
What alarms and warnings would be screaming at you doing this in the cockpit and could you override them?
and secondly I thought the Airbus had a max degree bank angle that no pilot could override - yet in this latest video it seems it is much exceeded on the fast run and left turn part of the video
just me being technical....
What alarms and warnings would be screaming at you doing this in the cockpit and could you override them?
and secondly I thought the Airbus had a max degree bank angle that no pilot could override - yet in this latest video it seems it is much exceeded on the fast run and left turn part of the video
just me being technical....
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"TOO LOW GEAR"
"TOO LOW FLAPS"
"BANK ANGLE"
You override them by switching off the GPWS.
The A310 isn't a FBW aircraft and doesn't have (AFAIK) a maximum bank angle. The FBW aircraft gave max bank angles of 60 degrees, far more than was achieved in this display.
"TOO LOW FLAPS"
"BANK ANGLE"
You override them by switching off the GPWS.
The A310 isn't a FBW aircraft and doesn't have (AFAIK) a maximum bank angle. The FBW aircraft gave max bank angles of 60 degrees, far more than was achieved in this display.
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this is why i don't fly with portugals best
i'm portuguese and i'm not very proud of what these cowboys do in the airspace! i've personally been involved in some seriously weird situations with this top company!!!
i'm portuguese and i'm not very proud of what these cowboys do in the airspace! i've personally been involved in some seriously weird situations with this top company!!!
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" this is why i don't fly with portugals best
i'm portuguese and i'm not very proud of what these cowboys do in the airspace! i've personally been involved in some seriously weird situations with this top company!!!"
Given the excellent safety record of TAP, i would say that you, sir, are an idiot.
3Ten, i thought something along the lines of your last post too...
i'm portuguese and i'm not very proud of what these cowboys do in the airspace! i've personally been involved in some seriously weird situations with this top company!!!"
Given the excellent safety record of TAP, i would say that you, sir, are an idiot.
3Ten, i thought something along the lines of your last post too...
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apologies in advance, having only started reading the post today and getting bored with all the irrelevant responses, I might have missed this one....
...what about all those light aircraft parked very close to the runway edge! vortex wake and all, its a wonder some of those werent flipped.
Im all for entertaining the crowd, but I dont see the point of flying so low and close to the spectators. Is it really worth the risk. We have standards in the UK which some would argue make airshows boring compared to the "good ol days", but rather that than running the risk of a complete disaster.
would an extra 50-100ft have made the display so less entertaining? I doubt it.
...what about all those light aircraft parked very close to the runway edge! vortex wake and all, its a wonder some of those werent flipped.
Im all for entertaining the crowd, but I dont see the point of flying so low and close to the spectators. Is it really worth the risk. We have standards in the UK which some would argue make airshows boring compared to the "good ol days", but rather that than running the risk of a complete disaster.
would an extra 50-100ft have made the display so less entertaining? I doubt it.
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From another forum...
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX
A bit over the top dont you think , He is only flying an A310 like a Spitfire would but because its much bigger plane you dont think its right and its wrong I say good on them Why is it an insult to all competent display pilots.? I dont think they could do that in a A310 or the pilot could do what they do in Spitfire's or other warbirds plus it only looks like 4 flybys and thats it.
Did Virgin do something like this when they got there A340-600 at the Farnborough Airshow?
There are so many reasons for condemning this type of flying:
Unauthorised, dangerous manoeuvres such as this leave virtually no margin for error. One cannot judge ground-to-wingtip clearance from the cockpit of a large, banking airliner. The nose-up attitude of the aircraft and lack of sideways visibility available to the pilot is obvious. To think this aircraft was safe because it was not flying over the crowd is a lame excuse. Any number of people could have been killed or seriously injured.
The airliner routines seen at Farnborough are different, in that these PRACTISED, CALCULATED displays are conducted at a safe height, with escape options in the event of a system malfunction. The pilots are well versed with the slow speed capabilities of their machines because it is part of their day job during flight test.
It's incredible that after all the accidents of past years, pilots such as this still think they are infallible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX
A bit over the top dont you think , He is only flying an A310 like a Spitfire would but because its much bigger plane you dont think its right and its wrong I say good on them Why is it an insult to all competent display pilots.? I dont think they could do that in a A310 or the pilot could do what they do in Spitfire's or other warbirds plus it only looks like 4 flybys and thats it.
Did Virgin do something like this when they got there A340-600 at the Farnborough Airshow?
There are so many reasons for condemning this type of flying:
Unauthorised, dangerous manoeuvres such as this leave virtually no margin for error. One cannot judge ground-to-wingtip clearance from the cockpit of a large, banking airliner. The nose-up attitude of the aircraft and lack of sideways visibility available to the pilot is obvious. To think this aircraft was safe because it was not flying over the crowd is a lame excuse. Any number of people could have been killed or seriously injured.
The airliner routines seen at Farnborough are different, in that these PRACTISED, CALCULATED displays are conducted at a safe height, with escape options in the event of a system malfunction. The pilots are well versed with the slow speed capabilities of their machines because it is part of their day job during flight test.
It's incredible that after all the accidents of past years, pilots such as this still think they are infallible.