Atlas Jet Hijack

[Rainboe]

It's certainly borne out as the right thing to do. If you look at all the incidents where pilots have escaped if possible, the situation normally is subsequently resolved with minimal damage- it takes away the advantage of motion to the captors, and the blow to their plans seems to take away the initiative as well from them.

[cavortingcheetah]

Why should one hang around to fly an aircraft which could explode at any moment to a destination to which one does not wish to go, with passengers on board whose mental stability is questionable, that's before they find the drinks trolley, who are making utterly unreasonable requests of everyone and who are being objectionable towards one's cabin crew?
Nosirreee, it's down the escape rope pronto presto!
Whooops! That's the easy style way to avoid the Malaga flight!

[Rainboe]

So I'm sitting there, and someone starts waving a shooter and starts shouting in a foreign tongue. What do I do- get out, or do the stiff upper lip British thing? Have you ever walked around a corner and seen a rat disappear up a drainpipe......fast. I'd be quicker than that. Of course it makes it far easier if you're not actually airborne at the time.........

[Green Guard]

Are we coming closer to 0 pilot cockpit.....

View Poll Results: Should the pilots of the hijacked a/c be criticised for disabling it by abandoning it
I AM a professional pilot and they SHOULD NOT be criticised 47 43.12%
I AM a professional pilot and they SHOULD be criticised 7 6.42%
I AM NOT a professional pilot and they SHOULD NOT be criticised 53 48.62%
I AM NOT an professional pilot ad they SHOULD be criticised 1 0.92%
I have no opinion one way or another 1 0.92%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll



Rainboe
Warning Toxic!

I have been undergoing annual security training since it started being needed back in the 70s. The advice is don't be a hero, be compliant, and get out if you can (thus disabling the aircraft). Leave it to the security people to handle. The days of the Captain saluting on the bridge of the Titanic as the water rises are gone- the days of the Captain doing a final walk through the cabin in an evacuation are gone- he just makes himself another body the rescue services must risk themselves trying to get out. The pilots just become 2 more people who have to be rescued. A plane without pilots can't move. They did the right thing in all respects under all current guidelines. I don't know why you are not aware of this, but it is wrong to draw criticism of them through your lack of awareness of current security training. You may not like it, but that's how it is.

..... sooner then 1 pilot cockpit

[Rainboe]

I was hoping nobody would draw attention to a very unfortunate inference from that poll: that the sample of non-professional pilots is actually smarter than the sample of professional pilots!

We'll not worry too much about 0 pilot aeroplanes- when you're willing to fly in one, I'll start worrying about it!

[Phileas Fogg]

Talking as a potential hijacked passenger I would be more than delighted if the flight deck door remained locked and the flight crew legged it at the first given opportunity.

And ..... if I ever caught up with the flight crew thereafter I'd buy them both a beer

[lomapaseo]

I was hoping nobody would draw attention to a very unfortunate inference from that poll: that the sample of non-professional pilots is actually smarter than the sample of professional pilots!

but, we already knew that

[anartificialhorizon]

Rainboe,

Pulling the fire handles... plane ain't going anywhere......

Try it sometime or read up on it next time you have a quiet hour or 3 on the flightdeck.....

[chuks]

Legally speaking....

According to my understanding of the law according to ICAO, for an aircraft on the gound, if its doors are closed then the Captain is responsible for what goes on inside. If a door is open then the civil authorities are in charge.

So if you are having some sort of problem on the ground, open the doors and let the cops/airport security/GSG9/the Men In Black/ whomever deal with it.

Last time I checked my ninja suit was in the laundry so that I really don't plan to tackle any hijackers if I have that choice. Once I get that thing safely on the ground I reckon it's time to do a Brave Sir Robin number, all else being equal. The risks of having to take to the skies with some nutcases in charge of the aircraft are just so much higher than leaving an aircraft parked with no flight crew on board, whgen it might as well be a Porta-Cabin.

[GlueBall]

Captain Rainboe . . .

No need to get emotionally terrorized and work yourself into a stupor over comments made by persons with non aviation backgrounds.

Keep in mind that there is an entertainment value in a free-for-all public forum where anonymous participants may include plumbers and chimney sweeps who haven't seen an airplane and have no clue about aviation. . . .Unless you enjoy running a hampster wheel.

[Watchdog]

I can only add to the sentiments of that said earlier. It's simple.

If there is nobody able to fly the aircraft, then the aluminium tube sitting on the runway is simply an expensive garden shed. Go hijack that!

[Green Guard]

Garden Shed

If there is nobody able to fly the aircraft, then the aluminium tube sitting on the runway is simply an expensive garden shed. Go hijack that!

Garden shed, maybe. But a garden shed almost full with people,
with 36 deg C outside, and much more inside.
Pilots jumping out maybe good idea, but why not send the same idea to their F/A ?
Once out of aircraft, why did they not open aft stairway from outside?

(Most MD80 in Turkey are quite new, and with new USA style - aft stairway open-close controls in the cabin, removed to "prevent" bad guys baling out during unpressurized flight. Stupid idea anyway, as the tail-cone exit obviously is still more suitable for jumping out with a parashute)

[cavortingcheetah]

Cannot quite understand reference to garden sheds.
Garden sheds usually full of tools.

[Basil]

Expert?

Ex - Has been
Spurt - drip under pressure

The Pilot in Command made a decision and I'd say it's a bit presumptious for a bunch of people who have never been in that position to have a public poll of their irrelevant opinions.

[sailor joe]

PanAm hijacking

Pan Am flight PA73, Karachi, 5 September1986. Wikipedia has an article on the event.

[paresb]

Can anyone of you pilot's give me a reference that the PIC has full authority and that it is his/her responsibility to give the final decision during a hijack incident regarding what to do in case of confronting anykind of threat. I've read ICAO Annex 17 and IATA Security Manual and searched the web for guidelines, regulations and procedures for unlawful interference, hijacking etc. but have not found anything where it is been stated that the PIC has full authority.

[Right Way Up]

It makes me laugh/cry that people can question the actions of a crew in this case. Seemingly intelligent people who run governments can stew for months before making a wrong decision. These guys made a decision which seemed right for the situation and made it instantaneously. And imho made the right one.

[ZAGORFLY]

abbandoning the ship

The last gift of the post 911 is what the turkish pilot have shown us!!
abbandoning the ship and its passengers and sit donwn with a coffee and watch potentially heads rolling out one after another!
Please fly those unhappy bomb strappped passengers where they want to go.
I never seen such unprofessional, and un ethical triunph of the armored flight deck doors.
As an airline manager I would sake those pilots immediatelly.

[con-pilot]

This is the first time I have read this thread. To be honest I really don't know if I should laugh or cry at some of the undulated garbage I have read here.

Okay, first off I am not an airline pilot nor have I ever been one, however, and it is a big however, I did fly airliners with passengers that given the remotest chance would have hijacked us without a second thought.

I flew some of the most dangerous prisoners in the world, yes the world. Only on very few occasions did the guards out number the prisoners. I will not say what the guard to prisoner ratio is/was.

I was one one the very first pilots in this program and the subject of being hijacked was a very high priority to we the pilots and the personnel in the cabin. We did a great deal of research on this subject including talking to crews of hijacked airliners. We worked with the F.B.I. and Interpol. We worked with the US Military Special Operations people.

We arrived at one inescapable conclusion. The only way that a hijacking can be controlled is for the flight crew, pilots, what have you, is to GET OUT OF THE AIRCRAFT.

If possible to disable the aircraft before we evacuate. If the pilots remain on the aircraft all you have are hostages that can fly the aircraft somewhere of the hijackers choice. Not a good option.

If I was a passenger on a hijacked airliner I would pray to God for the pilots to somehow get off the aircraft. Then the authorities can really control the situation on the ground. On the ground we have a chance, not in the air.

I believe the events of 9/11 rather proves this.

[Sallyann1234]

con-pilot says it all.

Crew exit quickly =
airplane disabled,
2 less hostages,
no on-board authority to negotiate with,
no direct comms with outside.
= kidnappers disadvantaged and demoralized