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i have to say that every time i've seen this done the skipper's in question shared the same personality traits and 'crm' techniques. whilst not as rabid as flaps in his hate of these guys i have to say that they loved the attention.
also whilst half a dozen punters tell you how wonderful it was to see the capt (the same one's who gush at how brave you are at dinner parties) most of the cabin looks at the tool with the microphone with at best annoyance and a worst violent intent!
for me it's a non-starter, not to mention impossible, but i've no doubt there are guys/girls out there that carry it off wonderfully.
as for the crm issue's that have been mentioned on this thread. isn't it all about comunication between crews to remove ambiguity and doubt from decision making and task assingment whilst monitoring each other in an open and honest enviroment? making tea, cleaning seats, standing on the jetty etc etc etc isn't that really just a bunch of salad dressing on the side dish of the main issue?
i for one am fed up listening to 'crm' being quoted everytime somebody dosen't get his/her own way. i'm fed up with it being dragged into debates like this which are mearly matters of style. i'm most of all fed up with people who have poor leadership skills and no command authority confusing being nice with being compliant. i'm amazed that occasionally, but becoming more frequent, i fly with other pilots whose priority is keeping all the little darlings, in and out of unifrom, down the back happy whilst taking little notice of the operational enviroment that we find ourselves in and for whIch 'crm' training was designed to enhance.
like most of us i attempt to use the nasa team skills and the rest of the 'guf' to make my crews life easier by trying to modify those behaviours i have that can p*ss people off, which if un-checked only makes getting the job done more difficult and less safe. my alarm starts ringing when the guys/girls i'm with tell me how good their crm is( it happen's!), especially if they are crm instructors, or customer first or cc instructors etc etc or that they do something different from everybody else because they know better. i find within minutes the agenda's come out. it's almost never about flying more safely but it is all about them.
also whilst half a dozen punters tell you how wonderful it was to see the capt (the same one's who gush at how brave you are at dinner parties) most of the cabin looks at the tool with the microphone with at best annoyance and a worst violent intent!
for me it's a non-starter, not to mention impossible, but i've no doubt there are guys/girls out there that carry it off wonderfully.
as for the crm issue's that have been mentioned on this thread. isn't it all about comunication between crews to remove ambiguity and doubt from decision making and task assingment whilst monitoring each other in an open and honest enviroment? making tea, cleaning seats, standing on the jetty etc etc etc isn't that really just a bunch of salad dressing on the side dish of the main issue?
i for one am fed up listening to 'crm' being quoted everytime somebody dosen't get his/her own way. i'm fed up with it being dragged into debates like this which are mearly matters of style. i'm most of all fed up with people who have poor leadership skills and no command authority confusing being nice with being compliant. i'm amazed that occasionally, but becoming more frequent, i fly with other pilots whose priority is keeping all the little darlings, in and out of unifrom, down the back happy whilst taking little notice of the operational enviroment that we find ourselves in and for whIch 'crm' training was designed to enhance.
like most of us i attempt to use the nasa team skills and the rest of the 'guf' to make my crews life easier by trying to modify those behaviours i have that can p*ss people off, which if un-checked only makes getting the job done more difficult and less safe. my alarm starts ringing when the guys/girls i'm with tell me how good their crm is( it happen's!), especially if they are crm instructors, or customer first or cc instructors etc etc or that they do something different from everybody else because they know better. i find within minutes the agenda's come out. it's almost never about flying more safely but it is all about them.
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Off Stand
A) It took the heat off the cabin crew
B) It showed a human face of authourity that pax look for beyond the cabin crew.
A) The Cabin Crew should have the ability and understanding of the delay to explain it to the general public, once briefed.
B) The SCCM, Purser, CSDM whatever the name concerned, should have that authourity and does, simple. Perhaps, stripes need to be worn in the Cabin Crew world too. The Purser of a ship, is indeed an Officer and dressed as such.
If you need the Captain of the 'ship' to explain things, the Crew ain't doing it right.
Bored
Aviation for 20 years and 1800+ pax short-haul ships for 18 months as 'Cabin Crew'. Never seen the Captain of a ship back up what the Crew have been briefed. He never had to.
B) It showed a human face of authourity that pax look for beyond the cabin crew.
A) The Cabin Crew should have the ability and understanding of the delay to explain it to the general public, once briefed.
B) The SCCM, Purser, CSDM whatever the name concerned, should have that authourity and does, simple. Perhaps, stripes need to be worn in the Cabin Crew world too. The Purser of a ship, is indeed an Officer and dressed as such.
If you need the Captain of the 'ship' to explain things, the Crew ain't doing it right.
Bored
Aviation for 20 years and 1800+ pax short-haul ships for 18 months as 'Cabin Crew'. Never seen the Captain of a ship back up what the Crew have been briefed. He never had to.
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In the good old days of charter flying some 25 years ago, one of our captains had a novel form of keeping the pax amused during the inevitable delays down in Spain. The 1/11s' entertainment system was non-existent, so he used to while away the hours for them by, from the flight deck, playing his mouth organ to them over the PA! This opens whole realms of possibilities these days for those so inclined!!!
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Boredcounter,
You seem to misunderstand me. Yes, the cabin crew should (and do) have the ability and understanding to explain the pax the nature of the delay, I couldn't agree more. When a Captain has come to address them over the PA in the cabin, he would virtually repeat what the senior had already said, but some pax seem happier when they have heard for the person in charge of the a/c. Also, sometimes seeing a different face helps too. Perhaps it was the nature of the pax that we sometimes carried, who knows!?!
I am not for one minute suggesting that the Captain should come out of the flight deck on every delay to speak the punters, that's just daft. And I would never insist on it either, but if he/she wants to, be my guest.
You seem to misunderstand me. Yes, the cabin crew should (and do) have the ability and understanding to explain the pax the nature of the delay, I couldn't agree more. When a Captain has come to address them over the PA in the cabin, he would virtually repeat what the senior had already said, but some pax seem happier when they have heard for the person in charge of the a/c. Also, sometimes seeing a different face helps too. Perhaps it was the nature of the pax that we sometimes carried, who knows!?!
I am not for one minute suggesting that the Captain should come out of the flight deck on every delay to speak the punters, that's just daft. And I would never insist on it either, but if he/she wants to, be my guest.
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Here's how I see it (charter captain).
If i'm doing my job, the crew is well informed, and has the ability to explain the problem to the pax.
The problem is (and if you ask your crew,I think they will agree), pax don't like to believe cc. In my experience, a PA from the cabin works wonders (I'm not suggesting this has to be done, just speaking from my experience). CC have told me that it seems to calm down irate pax. Do I enjoy it?....NO. Can't stand making PA's from the flight deck, let alone cabin. Should you do this for every PA/minor delay?...ABSOLUTELY NOT, I have better things to do.
In general I make 3 PA's (if i'm PF).
Welcome on board/listen to safety brief
This is how we are getting there
The weather is/have a nice holiday
Do I make tea?.....yes, if i'm on the jumpseat, and not doing anything. Our crew are generally very busy.
Do I do seat pockets?........not now. Generally quite busy on turn around. Used to do them as a smoking FO. As I didn't have the cheek to start smoking whilst the crew were busy.
To sum up, I have no desire to perform in front of pax. I have no desire to be liked by crew. When I go to work, I have every desire to get the best out of people (be it ground handling/fo/cc/ops), and most of all have a relaxed and safe day out.
If i'm doing my job, the crew is well informed, and has the ability to explain the problem to the pax.
The problem is (and if you ask your crew,I think they will agree), pax don't like to believe cc. In my experience, a PA from the cabin works wonders (I'm not suggesting this has to be done, just speaking from my experience). CC have told me that it seems to calm down irate pax. Do I enjoy it?....NO. Can't stand making PA's from the flight deck, let alone cabin. Should you do this for every PA/minor delay?...ABSOLUTELY NOT, I have better things to do.
In general I make 3 PA's (if i'm PF).
Welcome on board/listen to safety brief
This is how we are getting there
The weather is/have a nice holiday
Do I make tea?.....yes, if i'm on the jumpseat, and not doing anything. Our crew are generally very busy.
Do I do seat pockets?........not now. Generally quite busy on turn around. Used to do them as a smoking FO. As I didn't have the cheek to start smoking whilst the crew were busy.
To sum up, I have no desire to perform in front of pax. I have no desire to be liked by crew. When I go to work, I have every desire to get the best out of people (be it ground handling/fo/cc/ops), and most of all have a relaxed and safe day out.
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As an FO I have flown with the type of captain that likes to be everyones best friend, hello, welcome aboard bla bla, problem I have now is that there is just not enough time to do all this PR, I fly short haul and usually arrive at the aircraft 40 minutes prior to push, there isn't any time for all this back slapping behavior, preflight, crew briefing, cockpit prep and brief, load sheet prep and push back. I have on two occasions made a PA from the Purser station during very extenuating circumstances but prefer to stay at my appointed station. 
Person Of Interest
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Hey JJ, What are you up to nowadays????
That wasn't in the Point of No Return with the beer thing was it?
PA's from the cabin serve their purpose in the right time and place, but not as a general routine...
On the other hand, I understand JJ's reluctance to stand up because as he says, he's not ugly....
If the truth be known, he can't come out of the cockpit or he'd get no sleep on the layover...
That wasn't in the Point of No Return with the beer thing was it?
PA's from the cabin serve their purpose in the right time and place, but not as a general routine...
On the other hand, I understand JJ's reluctance to stand up because as he says, he's not ugly....
If the truth be known, he can't come out of the cockpit or he'd get no sleep on the layover...
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Leading From The Front
As a Captain I've done this for years when faced with a particularly frustrating delay (when you most want to hide!)
I think it shows great leadership. As the Captain you are in charge of the airplane and crew, and responsible for the passengers and it shows that you are happy to shoulder that responsibility and take the wrap when things are going wrong.
It also demonstrates that you are taking an interest in the people who are paying your salary and even if you can't actually do anything to fix the aeroplane or alter the slot time, it shows that you recognise the delay must be as frustrating for them as it is for you.
So stop hiding in the cockpit, lead from the front and face the music!
I think it shows great leadership. As the Captain you are in charge of the airplane and crew, and responsible for the passengers and it shows that you are happy to shoulder that responsibility and take the wrap when things are going wrong.
It also demonstrates that you are taking an interest in the people who are paying your salary and even if you can't actually do anything to fix the aeroplane or alter the slot time, it shows that you recognise the delay must be as frustrating for them as it is for you.
So stop hiding in the cockpit, lead from the front and face the music!
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V1. Thats where the problem lies. YOU think its great leadership. A minority may agree but the vast majority of cabin crew are happy to let you take the heat with no increase in respect or team spirit.They just think old tim nice but dim is sorting it and carry on gossiping. Passengers, well they are too p1ssed of to care . Ask them later 90% of them wont remember you as the captain . in fact they wont be able to recall if your a capt, f/o,cadet or a psr with stripes. You wont gain respect, just tolerance and crocodile smiles.
Therin lies the achilles heel for the Supporters. 80% dont know and dont care who you are, the other twenty are completely inconsolable so you are doing nothing but massaging your own ego.
After a face to face with an irate pax I was reported. the complainant couldnt recall which pilot it was. Im 6 feet and blonde. The f/o is 5'7 and bald with ginger side walls and not a little chubby. You see thats the public.
Therin lies the achilles heel for the Supporters. 80% dont know and dont care who you are, the other twenty are completely inconsolable so you are doing nothing but massaging your own ego.
After a face to face with an irate pax I was reported. the complainant couldnt recall which pilot it was. Im 6 feet and blonde. The f/o is 5'7 and bald with ginger side walls and not a little chubby. You see thats the public.
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There's no write or wrong in all this, it's simply a matter of choice.
Been flying for over 25 years and can only remember a few time's I have done this. Once in the cabin and once got off the a/c and addressed pax. in lounge. I'm more than happy to talk to someone whilst sitting in the cockpit on the ground, whether that is because they are not happy with something, are a nervous passenger or simply are being sociable. To be honest I don't like leaving the cockpit when we have passengers on board and the APU is running, no disrespect to the F/O but if the APU fire bell went off I would prefer to be involved in managing the situation and not looking like an idiot standing in the cabin whilst he calls an evacuation
To me the most important thing is to always keep the passengers informed, whether you do that from the flight deck or (if you have the skills like this Capt.) from the cabin makes know difference.
Been flying for over 25 years and can only remember a few time's I have done this. Once in the cabin and once got off the a/c and addressed pax. in lounge. I'm more than happy to talk to someone whilst sitting in the cockpit on the ground, whether that is because they are not happy with something, are a nervous passenger or simply are being sociable. To be honest I don't like leaving the cockpit when we have passengers on board and the APU is running, no disrespect to the F/O but if the APU fire bell went off I would prefer to be involved in managing the situation and not looking like an idiot standing in the cabin whilst he calls an evacuation
To me the most important thing is to always keep the passengers informed, whether you do that from the flight deck or (if you have the skills like this Capt.) from the cabin makes know difference.
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Land and go home!
All this "People who are paying your salaries" rubbish.
They only do becaue wer'e cheaper than next door.
They wouldn't, if we weren't.
Face the truth.
As far as standing up in front, I find it sickening, a form of attention deficit syndrome!
This business has become a ridiculous, rushed, snag carrying excercise, with wild boars for passengers, rubbish throwing, drunken, stag party trips.
I feel that my profession has sunk with the times. I would be happier driving a blooŁy coal train, except it wouldn't pay the bills. Oh yes and we've run out of the stuff!
So any announcements from the cockpit only. There's a curtain and all between us and an open door, remember security???
Just get on with flying the darn thang, land and go home, that's where life hides!
If you want some glory, why not come in on your days off and parade up and down the terminals in your glorious uniform? And... what's a hat for?
I for one will be gone in 7 years, hahahahahahaha!!!
They only do becaue wer'e cheaper than next door.
They wouldn't, if we weren't.
Face the truth.
As far as standing up in front, I find it sickening, a form of attention deficit syndrome!
This business has become a ridiculous, rushed, snag carrying excercise, with wild boars for passengers, rubbish throwing, drunken, stag party trips.
I feel that my profession has sunk with the times. I would be happier driving a blooŁy coal train, except it wouldn't pay the bills. Oh yes and we've run out of the stuff!
So any announcements from the cockpit only. There's a curtain and all between us and an open door, remember security???
Just get on with flying the darn thang, land and go home, that's where life hides!
If you want some glory, why not come in on your days off and parade up and down the terminals in your glorious uniform? And... what's a hat for?
I for one will be gone in 7 years, hahahahahahaha!!!
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The important things are what you say and how you say it: if you can look the pax in the eye, tell them the facts and nothing but, without any show or attempts at humor, and NEVER EVER lie or patronize them, you're way ahead.
On the other hand, if your general contempt for SLF and fellow crew drips through your every word, like with our friend Farty, you may be better off leaving any sort of human interaction to your colleagues...
On the other hand, if your general contempt for SLF and fellow crew drips through your every word, like with our friend Farty, you may be better off leaving any sort of human interaction to your colleagues...
From my experience, PA announcements are generally pretty appalling in sound quality. Either squelching, mumbling or shouting & from the flightdeck usually almost always inaudible.
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Having flown as SLF from LHR -CDG return last week, I had 2 excellent experiences with the FD crew, on the way out my kids and I were allowed up into the office for a chat and look around whilst the rest of the pax were loading, gives them some perspective against the Warrior cockpit they usually see!
On the way back the Captain was standing there as we boarded so I joked with him about how long it would take us to get a stand at LHR. Upon arrival we had to wait for 15 mins to have guidance switched on, the Captain was there to return the banter as I left
As ex-mil and current PPL it is nice to have some contact with the front in these uber-secure times!
On the way back the Captain was standing there as we boarded so I joked with him about how long it would take us to get a stand at LHR. Upon arrival we had to wait for 15 mins to have guidance switched on, the Captain was there to return the banter as I left
As ex-mil and current PPL it is nice to have some contact with the front in these uber-secure times!
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Part of the job
I am amazed to read how many so called professionals are agin the old man informing the passengers. I also note that these are the contributors using gutter language, which perhaps gives the lie to the "professional".
These passengers are the people who pay our wages and if you have time (and you do have time if there is a big delay) you are the one person with all the facts, who can
a. Inform people what is going on
b. In this way show that it is not the fault of your airline
c. Give the cabin crew a break from incessant queries and worse
A previous company encouraged this behaviour and also saying cheerio personally to the folks after flight - in the days when that was possible. Passengers sit in a tube with no control over what happens, having to follow someone else's procedures and it is nice for them to see that there is someone in charge who is prepared to show himself.
I have also personally been down to the gate, when our passengers had to wait there for ages, borrowed the mike and let them know the score. Of course, I could have sat back on board and read the paper but that was not my idea of doing a good job.
As for it being an ego trip for the captain, it never felt like that to me - more of a chore - but a neccessary one - and by the way I never changed my mind about this when I flew for the LOCO later.
So, to those real professionals amongst you, keep it up - and to the ignorant ranters, maybe it is time to disembark this PPRuNe...
FC.
These passengers are the people who pay our wages and if you have time (and you do have time if there is a big delay) you are the one person with all the facts, who can
a. Inform people what is going on
b. In this way show that it is not the fault of your airline
c. Give the cabin crew a break from incessant queries and worse
A previous company encouraged this behaviour and also saying cheerio personally to the folks after flight - in the days when that was possible. Passengers sit in a tube with no control over what happens, having to follow someone else's procedures and it is nice for them to see that there is someone in charge who is prepared to show himself.
I have also personally been down to the gate, when our passengers had to wait there for ages, borrowed the mike and let them know the score. Of course, I could have sat back on board and read the paper but that was not my idea of doing a good job.
As for it being an ego trip for the captain, it never felt like that to me - more of a chore - but a neccessary one - and by the way I never changed my mind about this when I flew for the LOCO later.
So, to those real professionals amongst you, keep it up - and to the ignorant ranters, maybe it is time to disembark this PPRuNe...
FC.
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You know, I just don't get it. I can maybe see why F.Flaps hates his job in a miserable LoCo airline (or is it her job - you can never be certain with that kind of thing)
but why should anyone have such a beef with anyone else who actually enjoys their career??
If the Capt "just gets off on it", a quick search shows no shortage of oratory clubs around the world so it looks like lots of normal people out there also "get off" on speaking in front of people.
but why should anyone have such a beef with anyone else who actually enjoys their career??
If the Capt "just gets off on it", a quick search shows no shortage of oratory clubs around the world so it looks like lots of normal people out there also "get off" on speaking in front of people.
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
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Funny thing is that - apart from Farty - many of the people advocating in-cabin-PAs are LoCO operators 
Maybe because we don't have that much else to offer our punters in the way of service, let alone the kind with a bit of personal touch to it. Seems like my outfit (Blue Ward, so to speak ) actively discourage it, maybe along the lines that if you don't show people that there are absoluetly no frills, they'll think that they are paying too much. OTOH, treat them like cattle and they'll realise that they're only paying cattle fare...
Maybe because we don't have that much else to offer our punters in the way of service, let alone the kind with a bit of personal touch to it. Seems like my outfit (Blue Ward, so to speak ) actively discourage it, maybe along the lines that if you don't show people that there are absoluetly no frills, they'll think that they are paying too much. OTOH, treat them like cattle and they'll realise that they're only paying cattle fare...
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different perception
It is interesting to see how different obviously the perception of the job seems to be form the passengers side of view (nice to see him) and his colleagues (going to vomit, get a life, weird). Very revealing isn't it...?
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As far as ideas go, I think it is a bad one. But that is just my opinion. I will do a PA from the flightdeck explaining the delay to the pax as best as I can. If you are the captain and want to do a PA from the cabin, so be it. You are the captain, and it is your decision to make.