Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
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Security has lost touch with reality. I go to the bathroom for 2 mins, my ethnically suspect FO locks the bulletproof door and all we can do is hold on for the last ride. But at least my shoes are clean!
Join Date: Jul 2005
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If there“s no need to screen police officers and custom officials everytime they go inside the security zone then there shouldn“t be any need to screen pilots either.
or...
If pilots can bring dangerous items inside the security control if they are not screened, so can police officers and customs officials too, right?!
All you need to do is check the pilots ID and really make sure that they are who they claim to be.
or...
If pilots can bring dangerous items inside the security control if they are not screened, so can police officers and customs officials too, right?!
All you need to do is check the pilots ID and really make sure that they are who they claim to be.
Join Date: May 2006
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Guys,
Lets keep this real. What do you want to do ? Refuse to go to work because we have to endure security, stupid questions, significant restrictions and we are all fed up with it.
Thanks for comming to the airport today, feel free to speak to Human Remains and collect your P45 on your way out after having surrendered your pass and thanks for working for us.
Lets not kid ourselves, there are plenty of people out there desperate to do what we do.
Do you really believe that any of us could get a job flying anywhere in the world without security or having to go through with whatever rules they want us to play to today ?
Exactly. Yes its a pain, but it is a pain for the SLF, a pain for the ramp guys, a pain for ATC, a pain for the Ops guys and guess what, its a real pain for the security guards who are as subject to it as everybody else.
I would rather they be there than not and if you really expect that you are going to get some sort of exemption just because of what we do - dream on.
Get with the programme, smile if you can and if you really do not want to, I saw an advert for bus drivers on the way home, they do not need to go through security just to get to their office, they do pretty much what we do and they earn £12.53 per hour once they get their licence.
I'm going to bed, got to be at the airport tomorrow to do what I get paid for, enjoy it, oh and go through security to get there, just as everyone expects me to.
Lets keep this real. What do you want to do ? Refuse to go to work because we have to endure security, stupid questions, significant restrictions and we are all fed up with it.
Thanks for comming to the airport today, feel free to speak to Human Remains and collect your P45 on your way out after having surrendered your pass and thanks for working for us.
Lets not kid ourselves, there are plenty of people out there desperate to do what we do.
Do you really believe that any of us could get a job flying anywhere in the world without security or having to go through with whatever rules they want us to play to today ?
Exactly. Yes its a pain, but it is a pain for the SLF, a pain for the ramp guys, a pain for ATC, a pain for the Ops guys and guess what, its a real pain for the security guards who are as subject to it as everybody else.
I would rather they be there than not and if you really expect that you are going to get some sort of exemption just because of what we do - dream on.
Get with the programme, smile if you can and if you really do not want to, I saw an advert for bus drivers on the way home, they do not need to go through security just to get to their office, they do pretty much what we do and they earn £12.53 per hour once they get their licence.
I'm going to bed, got to be at the airport tomorrow to do what I get paid for, enjoy it, oh and go through security to get there, just as everyone expects me to.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Who checks the security guys?!?! Is there security to check security who check security to check security who check security to check security who check security to check security who check security to check security who check security etc!!!!!!
Do security guys get paid less than pilots? If so are they not more susceptible to bribes? There are cheaper ways of getting stuff through security than using pilots I'm sure.
Do security guys get paid less than pilots? If so are they not more susceptible to bribes? There are cheaper ways of getting stuff through security than using pilots I'm sure.
I will be astonished if Security staff and Police are not as scrupulously checked as the rest of us day on day by their colleagues.
They could be "sleepers", as the recently arrested NHS staff are now being alleged to have been - apparently recruited in Saudi yaers ago specifically to come and work in the UK NHS - or they too have wives and families who can be threatened.
Read the reports of the current trial where access to the cash stash in Kent was by kidnapping the vault manager's wife and kids.
Yes things can be thrown over the fence, but be fair, if I am SLF at T4 at boarding via a jetway at Heathrow, I can hardly nip across to the other side of 27 R coz somebody threw something over from the Bath Road. BUT I could be slipped something that came through in an unscreened/unchecked Pilot's / Policeman's / Security guard's bag or jacket pocket.
I hate the delays and the indignity and the inconvenience as much as anybody else and I've been security screened and had airside passes, but until we can be certain about everybody, everyday, they have to be checked all the time.
What does p**s me off is to hear that the latest lads who attacked London and Glasgow were another lot on databases of suspects but they were still able tro do what they ried to do. Yeah what about profiling and implementing it ???
They could be "sleepers", as the recently arrested NHS staff are now being alleged to have been - apparently recruited in Saudi yaers ago specifically to come and work in the UK NHS - or they too have wives and families who can be threatened.
Read the reports of the current trial where access to the cash stash in Kent was by kidnapping the vault manager's wife and kids.
Yes things can be thrown over the fence, but be fair, if I am SLF at T4 at boarding via a jetway at Heathrow, I can hardly nip across to the other side of 27 R coz somebody threw something over from the Bath Road. BUT I could be slipped something that came through in an unscreened/unchecked Pilot's / Policeman's / Security guard's bag or jacket pocket.
I hate the delays and the indignity and the inconvenience as much as anybody else and I've been security screened and had airside passes, but until we can be certain about everybody, everyday, they have to be checked all the time.
What does p**s me off is to hear that the latest lads who attacked London and Glasgow were another lot on databases of suspects but they were still able tro do what they ried to do. Yeah what about profiling and implementing it ???
Last edited by Dave Gittins; 4th Jul 2007 at 08:19. Reason: carp spelling
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Next time I'm going as SLF, I will take my old frying oils and paint with me to security.
This way, they can dispose of it instead of me having to drive to the toxic waste disposal centre.
This way, they can dispose of it instead of me having to drive to the toxic waste disposal centre.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I think the biggest gripe here is a very simple one:
As SLF I do not in anyway have a problem with standing in the queue for a security check. The main reason being that I can endure it once or twice a year/month etc. for the sake of the safety of the aircraft.
When I check in as operating crew, through the secure company compound, day in, day out getting scanned, prodded and poked, searched, stripped and annoyed for 15-20 days a month, month in month out, thenit becomes a problem.
As has been said already, we have the controls of the aircraft, the decision on fuel loading etc. etc. etc. It doesn't matter how well security checked and scanned and screened you are there is nothing that scans inside the head which can pick up if someone is planning such things after years of 'peacefully' doing the job. All this 'rigourous' screening is producing is pi$$ed off pilots who 'potentially' can be distracted by the process from doing their jobs.
We need to split the requirements from those who have to endure it for 1/2 or say, less than 5 times a month and those who have to endure it 2/3 times a day.
W2P
As SLF I do not in anyway have a problem with standing in the queue for a security check. The main reason being that I can endure it once or twice a year/month etc. for the sake of the safety of the aircraft.
When I check in as operating crew, through the secure company compound, day in, day out getting scanned, prodded and poked, searched, stripped and annoyed for 15-20 days a month, month in month out, thenit becomes a problem.
As has been said already, we have the controls of the aircraft, the decision on fuel loading etc. etc. etc. It doesn't matter how well security checked and scanned and screened you are there is nothing that scans inside the head which can pick up if someone is planning such things after years of 'peacefully' doing the job. All this 'rigourous' screening is producing is pi$$ed off pilots who 'potentially' can be distracted by the process from doing their jobs.
We need to split the requirements from those who have to endure it for 1/2 or say, less than 5 times a month and those who have to endure it 2/3 times a day.
W2P
I can sympathise with the frustration that you have to do it far more than I do ... however, I have been in the same position, on Airport construction work where walking through security to work airside 3 - 4 times a day, with toe-tector boots, steel tapes etc. that ALWAYS set off the AMD and cause a delaying fuller inspection is very frustrating, when it is repetetive and the same security staff are involved.
However, as I said earlier, even somebody scrupulously honest but who has the opportunity to carry something through security, runs a rsk of having his arm twisted. Do you want to be in the position where that could happen to you and your families ?
However, as I said earlier, even somebody scrupulously honest but who has the opportunity to carry something through security, runs a rsk of having his arm twisted. Do you want to be in the position where that could happen to you and your families ?
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Jox
Yes - every other day when I fly INTO the UK from european airports.
At least without all the excess and unecessary security that UK PLC has managed to introduce with very little thought
Why, as a pilot, can I not take a bottle of shampoo out of the UK - but if I bought it down route I could bring it back
What I can do is decant it into a generic travel container bought at boots - so I now go through security with a selection of unidentifiable brightly coloured liquids - much safer
I cannot take a sealed bottle of water issued by my company on the previous day-even if I was willing to taste test it as it is 500ml. I can buy duty free once airside (by the way I wouldn't since every bottle of gin has been opened and swabbed - or if it hasn't why are we deemed a bigger risk than the workers/deliveries to the airside shops
)
Following the knee-jerk reaction to the liquid threat (which was all but entirely discredited as an impossible task outside a lab by bomb experts) common sense has unsurprisingly ceased to prevail - entirely because most people only have to do this a few times a year, and those who are inconvenienced most have little financial clout with respect to the BAA.
How quickly was duty free re-instated - and why is it safer any than the pilot having toothpaste?
How many body cavity searches are carried out pre-flight?
Yes - we currently have to accept it. It doesn't mean we have to like it or more importantly stop campaigning for common sense
Do you really believe that any of us could get a job flying anywhere in the world without security or having to go through with whatever rules they want us to play to today ?
At least without all the excess and unecessary security that UK PLC has managed to introduce with very little thought
Why, as a pilot, can I not take a bottle of shampoo out of the UK - but if I bought it down route I could bring it back
What I can do is decant it into a generic travel container bought at boots - so I now go through security with a selection of unidentifiable brightly coloured liquids - much saferI cannot take a sealed bottle of water issued by my company on the previous day-even if I was willing to taste test it as it is 500ml. I can buy duty free once airside (by the way I wouldn't since every bottle of gin has been opened and swabbed - or if it hasn't why are we deemed a bigger risk than the workers/deliveries to the airside shops
)Following the knee-jerk reaction to the liquid threat (which was all but entirely discredited as an impossible task outside a lab by bomb experts) common sense has unsurprisingly ceased to prevail - entirely because most people only have to do this a few times a year, and those who are inconvenienced most have little financial clout with respect to the BAA.
How quickly was duty free re-instated - and why is it safer any than the pilot having toothpaste?
How many body cavity searches are carried out pre-flight?
Yes - we currently have to accept it. It doesn't mean we have to like it or more importantly stop campaigning for common sense
Drain Bamaged
Quoting someone from Air Canada about security hassles:
Just do what I do. Carry a picture of yourself in the flight deck holding the crash axe. Really makes them feel like morons.
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Airport Security
Yes Airport security has gone over the top. I think it is a real insult to us pilots if we need to be security checked at the airport. It is really pointless as if we wanted to do something harmfull there is nothing anyone can do to stop us!
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Let's say you're a terrorist looking to cause some major havoc on a western country, like England for example. Unless you're a complete retard you'll know by now that airports are the most guarded and screened places of all the public places you might target. You'd have to ask yourself is it REALLY worth the risk Vs the reward of attempting it?
Then you think about the security onboard cruise ships and highspeed trains for example. If you wanted to kill people, really pull a terror attack off properly, how hard would it be? You derail one of those trains along the hundreds of miles of track that's unmonitored and hundreds of people would die. Why on earth would you go for an airport or an airplane when you can see from a mile away that you'll be scrutinized to pieces?
Either every single terrorist out there is a full-fledged retard, or there's an interest in keeping people scared.
Or think about this, if terrorists really wanted to mess with us, why not issue 200 bombthreats a month at major airports all over the country. It would produce absolute mayhem at the cost of a phonecall, travel would grind to a halt, businesses would be affected, people would be scared. A terrorists wet-dream right? Then there's the added benefit of the "peter and the wolf" effect. If the system over time becomes relaxed about this barrage of fake alerts then it will become easier to pull off a real attack. So why isn't this being done either?
Once again, is every single terrorist a complete idiot or could it be that this terror notion is being perpetuated by other parties with more to gain? I don't know but the whole thing reeks that's for sure.
Then you think about the security onboard cruise ships and highspeed trains for example. If you wanted to kill people, really pull a terror attack off properly, how hard would it be? You derail one of those trains along the hundreds of miles of track that's unmonitored and hundreds of people would die. Why on earth would you go for an airport or an airplane when you can see from a mile away that you'll be scrutinized to pieces?
Either every single terrorist out there is a full-fledged retard, or there's an interest in keeping people scared.
Or think about this, if terrorists really wanted to mess with us, why not issue 200 bombthreats a month at major airports all over the country. It would produce absolute mayhem at the cost of a phonecall, travel would grind to a halt, businesses would be affected, people would be scared. A terrorists wet-dream right? Then there's the added benefit of the "peter and the wolf" effect. If the system over time becomes relaxed about this barrage of fake alerts then it will become easier to pull off a real attack. So why isn't this being done either?
Once again, is every single terrorist a complete idiot or could it be that this terror notion is being perpetuated by other parties with more to gain? I don't know but the whole thing reeks that's for sure.
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The biggest challenge for the industry is the retention of the passengers confidence in air travel. If you lose that you lose your jobs.
Therefore having crew go through the security checks in sight of the passengers is all part of sustaining that confidence.
The effectiveness of each measure intoduced is debateable in itself but it does create and atmosphere of secruity for the many. Its like the police wandering round the airport with machine guns.
If they had to use them then its likely many passengers would be killed in the process. Having the police armed just puts another doubt in the way of an attacker.
Increasingly we are seeing the threats coming from intelligent articulate professional people, where the reaction to their arrest or conviction has been disbelief by those who know them. Why should there not be pilots who are sleepers as there were with doctors in the same position.
For people whose training requires them to maintain situational awareness and not get bogged down with the wrong issue, its really quite scary.
If you want to fly for three days in planes with no people in the back and then get sacked keep going on about how much above all this security you all are. The SLF might decide to help you out of the business.
Therefore having crew go through the security checks in sight of the passengers is all part of sustaining that confidence.
The effectiveness of each measure intoduced is debateable in itself but it does create and atmosphere of secruity for the many. Its like the police wandering round the airport with machine guns.
If they had to use them then its likely many passengers would be killed in the process. Having the police armed just puts another doubt in the way of an attacker.
Increasingly we are seeing the threats coming from intelligent articulate professional people, where the reaction to their arrest or conviction has been disbelief by those who know them. Why should there not be pilots who are sleepers as there were with doctors in the same position.
For people whose training requires them to maintain situational awareness and not get bogged down with the wrong issue, its really quite scary.
If you want to fly for three days in planes with no people in the back and then get sacked keep going on about how much above all this security you all are. The SLF might decide to help you out of the business.
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forget,
That technology has been around for a while now.
Whilst it may work in the USA, it certainly won't work here in the UK, as there are Too many money grabbin Barstewards that want there pound of flesh.
Ie, they want their cut of the pie and regardless of what "Pass" you have, all the different airports introduce their own rules over the top of what should realistically be required.
The bottom line is MONEY and they want their share of it at your/our expense.
That technology has been around for a while now.
Whilst it may work in the USA, it certainly won't work here in the UK, as there are Too many money grabbin Barstewards that want there pound of flesh.
Ie, they want their cut of the pie and regardless of what "Pass" you have, all the different airports introduce their own rules over the top of what should realistically be required.
The bottom line is MONEY and they want their share of it at your/our expense.
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Jox and Chrisbl. You (like too many) miss the point. We're not above security and it has nothing to do with human rights, it's just that pilots should be FUNDAMENTALLY PART OF AIRPORT SECURITY. Instead we're treated in the opposite, not allowed anything over 100ml etc and all the rest. What a missed opportunity to utilise a fairly large group of 'relatively' intelligent people to aid in security. If one or two cause trouble, so what. Life's too short...........
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well said, pidge. we aren't asking for pilots to simply waltz through -although that IS what police, customs etc do, without attracting any issues from the anti-pilot commentators here.
But the idiocy in security MUST stop. we're talking about trivial items being confiscated -highlighter pens, contact lense fluid, moisturiser. Try putting up with that nonsense several times a day -especially when some of the individuals seem to have a personal issue with "jumped up" pilots (regrettably an actual quote).
The pilot is the person IN CHARGE of security of his aircraft. Lets have sensible security. Treating him as a suspect to be stripped, humiliated and jerked around harms aviation security.
But the idiocy in security MUST stop. we're talking about trivial items being confiscated -highlighter pens, contact lense fluid, moisturiser. Try putting up with that nonsense several times a day -especially when some of the individuals seem to have a personal issue with "jumped up" pilots (regrettably an actual quote).
The pilot is the person IN CHARGE of security of his aircraft. Lets have sensible security. Treating him as a suspect to be stripped, humiliated and jerked around harms aviation security.
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This thread started about taking shoes off going through security, why not buy shoes that do not trigger metal detecting arches? I have and they look no different than other shoes with metal in them. It is usually the metal strengthening plates in the sole of the shoe that triggers the arch.
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Exactly, WE are in charge of the security of the aircraft that we operate.
The question is: How do we get these MORONS to acknowledge this FACT and stop treating us as the criminal?
Perhaps security checks that are on a par with the Police and Customs would not go amiss to redress the balance?
The question is: How do we get these MORONS to acknowledge this FACT and stop treating us as the criminal?
Perhaps security checks that are on a par with the Police and Customs would not go amiss to redress the balance?