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Thomson A/C In flight shutdown

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Thomson A/C In flight shutdown

Old 22nd May 2007, 12:52
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Here Here

Excellent post Gonzo, it is a shame that we need to justify the actions of an A grade crew.
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Old 25th May 2007, 23:24
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up

Impressive by those involved and great comments by some here.

I'm curious about the ATC side of handling this type of incident. They must have had a fairly hectic time too. Finding out the available runways, possibly clearing other a/c out of the way, etc. I'd appreciate if someone could describe the SOP on the ground and also how much the other airport operations were disrupted, if at all.
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Old 28th May 2007, 12:30
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Cargo Boy: As you state you are a Grumpy old pilot, but next time think before you go off on one at someone like that. We cannot all have jobs in the front office and FS if the closest that most will get to flying. A lot of poeple get enjoyment from whatching you guys at work that doesn't mean that they should be shouted down by yourself. If people don't ask the question they won't fing the answer and a person like yourself is the person to ask. Reamember people like us pay you wages so be nice. DON'T bite the hand that feeds. If flying is making you grumpy come and try something like truck driving. I have to deal with more idiots than you do. Oh and forum rules state something along the lines of don't abuse the Noobs. So think before firing off.

More importantly, weldone to all involved. Shows that flying can be safe, not like in some countries.
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Old 28th May 2007, 21:32
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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I'm curious about the ATC side of handling this type of incident. They must have had a fairly hectic time too. Finding out the available runways, possibly clearing other a/c out of the way, etc. I'd appreciate if someone could describe the SOP on the ground and also how much the other airport operations were disrupted, if at all.
Just an aviation enthusiast here, but I was amazed at the instant "All runways available for landing" right after the Mayday call That must cause some hectic activity as mentionned above

Showed this to a lot of friends and everyone said well done to everyone involved and were quite impressed by the coolness of the pilots.

Since the story had a happy ending, I can say that the lads found the close up of the bird being ingested pretty funny, while most of the girls, before showing any concern for the 200+ people on the plane, were very concerned about the bird!!
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Old 28th May 2007, 23:14
  #145 (permalink)  
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I was amazed at the instant "All runways available for landing" right after the Mayday call. That must cause some hectic activity
Not really. At the very most there would have been one other aircraft lining up for take-off and that could taxi clear in a minute. Any other aircraft on approach would have been vectored clear in no time at all. As you've seen ATC are very good at what they do.
 
Old 19th Jun 2007, 14:13
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Investigation shows the bird ingested was a crow and not 2 herons as first believed. This has been confirmed by the remains found in the engine

Mind you i suppose they do look the same when your flying at 200 kts !!

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Old 22nd Jun 2007, 12:53
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Wasn't there, but not sure I'm too impressed. Tell ATC then shut the motor down?? No. I think not. Shut the engine down, then, when you have it all squared away, nothing else on for the moment, tell ATC. Mayday?? Overdoing it by a good margin. 45 minutes in the air? Possible other engine damage? Forget it. Turn smoothly cross-wind for return and land. Old fashioned visual circuit. Fast and simple. ATC considerations nil. At a time convenient to you, tell them what you are going to do. They would have miles of time to clear the runway you would tell them you are going to use.
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Old 22nd Jun 2007, 13:11
  #148 (permalink)  

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"If people don't ask the question they won't fing the answer and a person like yourself is the person to ask. "

I don't think for one second that cargo boy took offence at a question being asked.

It was a poster who 'was giving answers' that was the subject of his ire.
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Old 22nd Jun 2007, 17:41
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Wasn't there, but not sure I'm too impressed. Tell ATC then shut the motor down?? No. I think not. Shut the engine down, then, when you have it all squared away, nothing else on for the moment, tell ATC. Mayday?? Overdoing it by a good margin. 45 minutes in the air? Possible other engine damage? Forget it. Turn smoothly cross-wind for return and land. Old fashioned visual circuit. Fast and simple. ATC considerations nil. At a time convenient to you, tell them what you are going to do. They would have miles of time to clear the runway you would tell them you are going to use.


The first line in your posting says it all. You weren't there; and given that the event seems to have come off very well, second guessing based on hindsight does very little to further the discussion, IMHO.
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Old 22nd Jun 2007, 18:04
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Journo's

Not all Journalists are prats; and no, I'm not one myself, but I know a good one.

Being a bit more upfront when the company allows ( please shoot anyone who uses the phrase pro-active ) would help avoid the mistakes.

Speaking of which, as someone used to dealing with military aircraft - why don't airliners have fuel jettison ???

I can understand it would be embarassing if one leant on the wrong switch while busy with a hostess, likewise some people would complain if fuel was dumped over, say, Crawley from Gatwick ( my complaint would be that it isn't as flammable as Hollywood makes out, if Crawley ) but surely this might be useful for go-rounds at MTOW ?

So, why no fuel dump / jettison ?
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Old 22nd Jun 2007, 19:36
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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So, why no fuel dump / jettison ?

757 has no fuel jettison system. It doesn't need it as it's max take off weight doesn't exceed it's max landing weight.

Regards Gascan
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Old 22nd Jun 2007, 19:39
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Mayday?? Overdoing it by a good margin.
In a heavily loaded twin with an engine out just after take-off I don't reckon thats over doing it all, you can always downgrade it as and when you want to. It get ATC's attention, makes everyone sit up and take notice and shuts everyone else on the frequency up for a bit.
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Old 23rd Jun 2007, 07:21
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Guys

I wouldn't bother trying to explain SOPs to people who obviosly have no idea how to handle such a situation in a safe and effective way as determined by a company's training department...

Mayday?? Overdoing it by a good margin.

45 minutes in the air?

Fast and simple.

ATC considerations nil.


I can understand it would be embarassing if one leant on the wrong switch while busy with a hostess
Yeah, full of embarassing switches these airliners. Glad we have plenty of ex-mil guys to keep us honest.
some people would complain if fuel was dumped over, say, Crawley
And civvi pilots wouldn't be able to follow instructions for where to dump fuel.....
why don't airliners have fuel jettison?
As some do the question is unanswerable.

PP
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Old 23rd Jun 2007, 08:45
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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757 has no fuel jettison system. It doesn't need it as it's max take off weight doesn't exceed it's max landing weight.
Hmm, max take-off weight upto 115T and a max structural landing weight of about 90T, go to the back of the class

Last edited by StudentInDebt; 23rd Jun 2007 at 17:31.
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Old 23rd Jun 2007, 11:56
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Great post Pete
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Old 23rd Jun 2007, 12:00
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry my mistake, I have just had a look and you are correct. I was always led to believe the reason an aircraft had fuel jettison was for my reason stated. So why hasn't the 757 got one?

The view is much better from back here!

Gascan.
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Old 23rd Jun 2007, 12:22
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So why hasn't the 757 got one?
Because it can land above MLW (up to MTOW) in an emergency. All it would require is an overweight landing check by the engineers, it doesn't mean it will automatically be damaged if landing above MLW.

PP
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Old 23rd Jun 2007, 12:24
  #158 (permalink)  

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The reason why the 757 doesn't have a jettison system is that the difference between the MTOW and the MLW is sufficiently small for the aircraft to land overweight without structural damage and the approach speeds are reasonable at the higher weights.
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Old 23rd Jun 2007, 13:55
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Dear Jafa,

I feel I must congratulate you on what is possibly the most irritating and puerile post I've seen on this site for some time, it's a high bar to clear and you've sailed over it by some distance.

Fred.

Last edited by Fredairstair; 23rd Jun 2007 at 17:04. Reason: edited for politeness
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Old 23rd Jun 2007, 18:20
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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Old fashioned visual circuit. Fast and simple. ATC considerations nil. At a time convenient to you, tell them what you are going to do. They would have miles of time to clear the runway you would tell them you are going to use.
A/c deviates from SID...into APC airspace...no co-ordination...all this at a "minor" airport which only has 54 movements per hour [and has gone "single r/w ops"]
I wasn't there on the day, but I was when the Dash8 lost a donk.....The Captain flew the a/c [aviate] decided his course of action [navigate] and called Mayday [communicate] all in about 90 seconds. A/c were held on the ground, and those on approach were broken off [inc a Virgin B744 at 2 miles] to help the crew out. He landed after a[n extended] circuit 7-8 mins later. He was happy. ATC were happy/ Guess what? The TOM guy did the same thing
I must agree with fred
I must congratulate you on what is possibly the most irritating and puerile post I've seen on this site for some time
watp,iktch
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