Thomson A/C In flight shutdown
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Impressive by those involved and great comments by some here.
I'm curious about the ATC side of handling this type of incident. They must have had a fairly hectic time too. Finding out the available runways, possibly clearing other a/c out of the way, etc. I'd appreciate if someone could describe the SOP on the ground and also how much the other airport operations were disrupted, if at all.
I'm curious about the ATC side of handling this type of incident. They must have had a fairly hectic time too. Finding out the available runways, possibly clearing other a/c out of the way, etc. I'd appreciate if someone could describe the SOP on the ground and also how much the other airport operations were disrupted, if at all.
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Cargo Boy: As you state you are a Grumpy old pilot, but next time think before you go off on one at someone like that. We cannot all have jobs in the front office and FS if the closest that most will get to flying. A lot of poeple get enjoyment from whatching you guys at work that doesn't mean that they should be shouted down by yourself. If people don't ask the question they won't fing the answer and a person like yourself is the person to ask. Reamember people like us pay you wages so be nice. DON'T bite the hand that feeds. If flying is making you grumpy come and try something like truck driving. I have to deal with more idiots than you do. Oh and forum rules state something along the lines of don't abuse the Noobs. So think before firing off.
More importantly, weldone to all involved. Shows that flying can be safe, not like in some countries.
More importantly, weldone to all involved. Shows that flying can be safe, not like in some countries.
I'm curious about the ATC side of handling this type of incident. They must have had a fairly hectic time too. Finding out the available runways, possibly clearing other a/c out of the way, etc. I'd appreciate if someone could describe the SOP on the ground and also how much the other airport operations were disrupted, if at all.
Showed this to a lot of friends and everyone said well done to everyone involved and were quite impressed by the coolness of the pilots.
Since the story had a happy ending, I can say that the lads found the close up of the bird being ingested pretty funny, while most of the girls, before showing any concern for the 200+ people on the plane, were very concerned about the bird!!
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I was amazed at the instant "All runways available for landing" right after the Mayday call. That must cause some hectic activity
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Investigation shows the bird ingested was a crow and not 2 herons as first believed. This has been confirmed by the remains found in the engine
Mind you i suppose they do look the same when your flying at 200 kts !!
Mind you i suppose they do look the same when your flying at 200 kts !!
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Wasn't there, but not sure I'm too impressed. Tell ATC then shut the motor down?? No. I think not. Shut the engine down, then, when you have it all squared away, nothing else on for the moment, tell ATC. Mayday?? Overdoing it by a good margin. 45 minutes in the air? Possible other engine damage? Forget it. Turn smoothly cross-wind for return and land. Old fashioned visual circuit. Fast and simple. ATC considerations nil. At a time convenient to you, tell them what you are going to do. They would have miles of time to clear the runway you would tell them you are going to use.
Rotate on this!
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"If people don't ask the question they won't fing the answer and a person like yourself is the person to ask. "
I don't think for one second that cargo boy took offence at a question being asked.
It was a poster who 'was giving answers' that was the subject of his ire.
I don't think for one second that cargo boy took offence at a question being asked.
It was a poster who 'was giving answers' that was the subject of his ire.
Wasn't there, but not sure I'm too impressed. Tell ATC then shut the motor down?? No. I think not. Shut the engine down, then, when you have it all squared away, nothing else on for the moment, tell ATC. Mayday?? Overdoing it by a good margin. 45 minutes in the air? Possible other engine damage? Forget it. Turn smoothly cross-wind for return and land. Old fashioned visual circuit. Fast and simple. ATC considerations nil. At a time convenient to you, tell them what you are going to do. They would have miles of time to clear the runway you would tell them you are going to use.
The first line in your posting says it all. You weren't there; and given that the event seems to have come off very well, second guessing based on hindsight does very little to further the discussion, IMHO.
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Journo's
Not all Journalists are prats; and no, I'm not one myself, but I know a good one.
Being a bit more upfront when the company allows ( please shoot anyone who uses the phrase pro-active ) would help avoid the mistakes.
Speaking of which, as someone used to dealing with military aircraft - why don't airliners have fuel jettison ???
I can understand it would be embarassing if one leant on the wrong switch while busy with a hostess, likewise some people would complain if fuel was dumped over, say, Crawley from Gatwick ( my complaint would be that it isn't as flammable as Hollywood makes out, if Crawley ) but surely this might be useful for go-rounds at MTOW ?
So, why no fuel dump / jettison ?
Being a bit more upfront when the company allows ( please shoot anyone who uses the phrase pro-active ) would help avoid the mistakes.
Speaking of which, as someone used to dealing with military aircraft - why don't airliners have fuel jettison ???
I can understand it would be embarassing if one leant on the wrong switch while busy with a hostess, likewise some people would complain if fuel was dumped over, say, Crawley from Gatwick ( my complaint would be that it isn't as flammable as Hollywood makes out, if Crawley ) but surely this might be useful for go-rounds at MTOW ?
So, why no fuel dump / jettison ?
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So, why no fuel dump / jettison ?
757 has no fuel jettison system. It doesn't need it as it's max take off weight doesn't exceed it's max landing weight.
Regards Gascan
757 has no fuel jettison system. It doesn't need it as it's max take off weight doesn't exceed it's max landing weight.
Regards Gascan
Mayday?? Overdoing it by a good margin.
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Guys
I wouldn't bother trying to explain SOPs to people who obviosly have no idea how to handle such a situation in a safe and effective way as determined by a company's training department...
Yeah, full of embarassing switches these airliners. Glad we have plenty of ex-mil guys to keep us honest.
And civvi pilots wouldn't be able to follow instructions for where to dump fuel.....
As some do the question is unanswerable.
PP
I wouldn't bother trying to explain SOPs to people who obviosly have no idea how to handle such a situation in a safe and effective way as determined by a company's training department...
Mayday?? Overdoing it by a good margin.
45 minutes in the air?
Fast and simple.
ATC considerations nil.
I can understand it would be embarassing if one leant on the wrong switch while busy with a hostess
some people would complain if fuel was dumped over, say, Crawley
why don't airliners have fuel jettison?
PP
757 has no fuel jettison system. It doesn't need it as it's max take off weight doesn't exceed it's max landing weight.
Last edited by StudentInDebt; 23rd Jun 2007 at 16:31.
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Sorry my mistake, I have just had a look and you are correct. I was always led to believe the reason an aircraft had fuel jettison was for my reason stated. So why hasn't the 757 got one?
The view is much better from back here!
Gascan.
The view is much better from back here!
Gascan.
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So why hasn't the 757 got one?
PP
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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The reason why the 757 doesn't have a jettison system is that the difference between the MTOW and the MLW is sufficiently small for the aircraft to land overweight without structural damage and the approach speeds are reasonable at the higher weights.
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Dear Jafa,
I feel I must congratulate you on what is possibly the most irritating and puerile post I've seen on this site for some time, it's a high bar to clear and you've sailed over it by some distance.
Fred.
I feel I must congratulate you on what is possibly the most irritating and puerile post I've seen on this site for some time, it's a high bar to clear and you've sailed over it by some distance.
Fred.
Last edited by Fredairstair; 23rd Jun 2007 at 16:04. Reason: edited for politeness
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Old fashioned visual circuit. Fast and simple. ATC considerations nil. At a time convenient to you, tell them what you are going to do. They would have miles of time to clear the runway you would tell them you are going to use.
I wasn't there on the day, but I was when the Dash8 lost a donk.....The Captain flew the a/c [aviate] decided his course of action [navigate] and called Mayday [communicate] all in about 90 seconds. A/c were held on the ground, and those on approach were broken off [inc a Virgin B744 at 2 miles] to help the crew out. He landed after a[n extended] circuit 7-8 mins later. He was happy. ATC were happy/ Guess what? The TOM guy did the same thing
I must agree with fred
I must congratulate you on what is possibly the most irritating and puerile post I've seen on this site for some time