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The best I can do is a hostie I knew who was mortified by a slip of the tongue once.....
nervous passenger boards flight in Amsterdam.....hostie reassures him 'don't worry Sir, it's just a short flight'...
45 minutes later aircraft lands, passengers file off.....
hostie to 'nervous flier' as he leaves...
'did you enjoy your sh#t flight Sir?'
nervous passenger boards flight in Amsterdam.....hostie reassures him 'don't worry Sir, it's just a short flight'...
45 minutes later aircraft lands, passengers file off.....
hostie to 'nervous flier' as he leaves...
'did you enjoy your sh#t flight Sir?'
Simply because, my dear chap, any pilot who has just "lost it" in front of his passengers is hardly in the right frame of mind to be flying anything, never mind operating a commercial flight.
The safest thing is to opt not to fly. If that is undesireable then a better option is to terminate any such conversation before it takes you into that mental state where you shouldn't fly.
The safest thing is to opt not to fly. If that is undesireable then a better option is to terminate any such conversation before it takes you into that mental state where you shouldn't fly.
From a news story:
The pilot of the Las Vegas-to-Detroit flight was apparently in a heated cell phone conversation in the cockpit, then went into a lavatory, locked the door and continued the conversation, Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Ian Gregor said Saturday.
"Passengers who were boarding the aircraft could hear his end of it," Gregor said.
"Passengers who were boarding the aircraft could hear his end of it," Gregor said.
Then again, I wasn't there.
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Reminds me of the skipper leaning out the dv window yelling to the engineer to 'Hurry up'. At which point the passengers strolling towards the plane all start jogging.....
Join Date: May 2005
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...and for those of us in the states, in addition to the outburst in front of the customers, it did nothing for the less-than-stellar customer service reputation of this particular carrier. The only difference was that the snarling was from one in the pointy end of the aircraft, rather than the ones that secure the cabin and the galley.
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Quote:
Simply because, my dear chap, any pilot who has just "lost it" in front of his passengers is hardly in the right frame of mind to be flying anything, never mind operating a commercial flight.
Many years ago, as a young second officer on a B-727, I remember holding short for takeoff for what seemed like forever for departure. The seemingly inept tower controller then advised us to expect at least another 20 minutes of delay while he worked arriving traffic. The ill tempered Captain then shut down two of his three engines to conserve our fuel, but just as the engines spooled down, the tower suddenly advised us that we were cleared for an immediate take off.
F..YOU the exasperated captain screamed into his wisely un keyed mike. In a rage, he then pitched his microphone at the instrument panel, and by unfortunate aim, shattered his HSI. . . Needless to say, our seniority list moved by one number that day.
Simply because, my dear chap, any pilot who has just "lost it" in front of his passengers is hardly in the right frame of mind to be flying anything, never mind operating a commercial flight.
Many years ago, as a young second officer on a B-727, I remember holding short for takeoff for what seemed like forever for departure. The seemingly inept tower controller then advised us to expect at least another 20 minutes of delay while he worked arriving traffic. The ill tempered Captain then shut down two of his three engines to conserve our fuel, but just as the engines spooled down, the tower suddenly advised us that we were cleared for an immediate take off.
F..YOU the exasperated captain screamed into his wisely un keyed mike. In a rage, he then pitched his microphone at the instrument panel, and by unfortunate aim, shattered his HSI. . . Needless to say, our seniority list moved by one number that day.
Last edited by ship's power; 11th Apr 2007 at 07:40.
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The captain of 'PI' or 'Stains' crash had just had a blazing row in ops. He bust a blood vessel shortly after take-off, causing the loss of the Tride
The captain had been earlier involved in a fracas with members of the pilots union before the flight and was upset when he boarded the aircrcraft.
At 1500 ft after take off, the thrust was reduced for noise-abatement and shortly afterwards instead of trailing edge flap retraction, the leading edge devices were selected in and the Trident stalled because the retraction of the LED caused the stalling speed to increase by about 30 knots. Unlike modern jets the LED and trailing edge flaps in the Trident are operated by separate controls in the cockpit.
The autopsy on the captain found a severe cae of atherosclerosis - a narrowing of the arteries resulting from a build up of fatty deposits in the heart. The symptoms of the internal haemorrhage found in the autopsy could range from a slight indigestion-like pain in the chest to collapse and unconsciousness.
The story of this accident was published in Air Disaster, Volume 1 by the Australian author Macarthur Job.
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PI/Staines (aka Thread Creep)
@A37575
Nothing worse than a SLF/spotter who is familiar with the works of Mac Job "creeping a thread" but is the relevance of PI/Staines not that we cannot rule out the possibility that, had the captain not been having a heart attack due to (or contributed to - MAYBE) earlier row, the slats might not have been prematurely retracted? (By whoever.)
Oh, and while I'm on, I am a native English speaker (UK) and I don't know what an "F-bomb" is either - is it a fart or using the F-word (fu*k)?
Rgds, M63
Nothing worse than a SLF/spotter who is familiar with the works of Mac Job "creeping a thread" but is the relevance of PI/Staines not that we cannot rule out the possibility that, had the captain not been having a heart attack due to (or contributed to - MAYBE) earlier row, the slats might not have been prematurely retracted? (By whoever.)
Oh, and while I'm on, I am a native English speaker (UK) and I don't know what an "F-bomb" is either - is it a fart or using the F-word (fu*k)?
Rgds, M63
Last edited by Midland63; 12th Apr 2007 at 20:29. Reason: correct a typo
Psychophysiological entity
I have to say that it is years since I read the report, so things may be a little misty...but, I was under the impression that his state of mind could well have been a contributory factor. Really, that's all that is needed, to conclude that the thread's captain should certainly not have flown.
Let me tell you a story.
I recall many yeas ago, standing at the nose of my HP7 at Rotterdam, while my passengers were trailing across the tarmac to board. A light aircraft started to buzz the tower...and anything else it could see that looked fair game.
I like low flying, and I was certainly not an old fuddy-duddy, but this was taking the pi##. I stood near the GPU and stared right into his cockpit as he flew a foot or so off the ground...STRAIGHT AT ME. I was one not to back away from confrontation in those days and I stood my ground. Well, that was until I ducked. The captain behind me said that he thought it would take my aerials off the roof...and indeed the roof of the main building.
This is one of the few times in my aviation career when folk have seen me really annoyed. I was very fit in those days and ran to the building and up the stairs to the flight-planning place. I bellowed in such a way that made the armed guards look startled. The gist of my bellowing was "Isn't anyone going to stop this?!!!!"
God knows where he landed cos the tearful and distraught young pilot beat me back to my aircraft. It seemed that when they got a new aircraft delivered at the flying school, they ‘Christened it' in this manner. He was concerned about his career. LOL. I told him that in my country he would go to jail.
There was a bit of inter politicking between our flight inspector and the Dutch, and I left them with the diagrams and report I submitted. All done on a ‘keep it friendly' basis. Okay with me.
Anyway, despite regular very demanding work-outs, this episode left me strangely depleted. I was going up against some seriously good judo opponents about that time, and working very hard at it, yet after take-off I felt unwell. My chest felt constricted, and the lowering pressure (4.6 diff in that thing) seemed to be having more affect than usual. I briefed my F/O and relaxed. It went away.
The point is that anyone that practices judo will know just how much you have to give. Just what was the difference in this case? There has to be some very counter productive chemistry going on when you loose control of your emotions: an adrenaline rush kick-back perhaps, anyway for a few minutes I should not have been in command of that aircraft.
Let me tell you a story.
I recall many yeas ago, standing at the nose of my HP7 at Rotterdam, while my passengers were trailing across the tarmac to board. A light aircraft started to buzz the tower...and anything else it could see that looked fair game.
I like low flying, and I was certainly not an old fuddy-duddy, but this was taking the pi##. I stood near the GPU and stared right into his cockpit as he flew a foot or so off the ground...STRAIGHT AT ME. I was one not to back away from confrontation in those days and I stood my ground. Well, that was until I ducked. The captain behind me said that he thought it would take my aerials off the roof...and indeed the roof of the main building.
This is one of the few times in my aviation career when folk have seen me really annoyed. I was very fit in those days and ran to the building and up the stairs to the flight-planning place. I bellowed in such a way that made the armed guards look startled. The gist of my bellowing was "Isn't anyone going to stop this?!!!!"
God knows where he landed cos the tearful and distraught young pilot beat me back to my aircraft. It seemed that when they got a new aircraft delivered at the flying school, they ‘Christened it' in this manner. He was concerned about his career. LOL. I told him that in my country he would go to jail.
There was a bit of inter politicking between our flight inspector and the Dutch, and I left them with the diagrams and report I submitted. All done on a ‘keep it friendly' basis. Okay with me.
Anyway, despite regular very demanding work-outs, this episode left me strangely depleted. I was going up against some seriously good judo opponents about that time, and working very hard at it, yet after take-off I felt unwell. My chest felt constricted, and the lowering pressure (4.6 diff in that thing) seemed to be having more affect than usual. I briefed my F/O and relaxed. It went away.
The point is that anyone that practices judo will know just how much you have to give. Just what was the difference in this case? There has to be some very counter productive chemistry going on when you loose control of your emotions: an adrenaline rush kick-back perhaps, anyway for a few minutes I should not have been in command of that aircraft.
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Point of information: "F-bomb" is indeed US jargon for the word you signified. Swearing is a verbal act: whereas most of the time, we use words to signify things, such as with descriptions or directives, when we swear, we use "strong words" as acts in themselves, conveying an emotional state. Hence the usage of "bomb": deploying it alters the conversational landscape, largely by removingor flattening obstructions to efficient communication, obstructions such as ill-conceived notions of propriety. \
People are generally tolerant of "incidental" swearing.
I can think of very few more difficult situations than a superior who comes in, mad as hell with a "don't mess with me" post-row attitude, then silently becomes incapacitated.
People are generally tolerant of "incidental" swearing.
I can think of very few more difficult situations than a superior who comes in, mad as hell with a "don't mess with me" post-row attitude, then silently becomes incapacitated.
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I think the experience of family life is instructive about how dramatically the working atmosphere of a collaborative enterprise can change with as little as a single word uttered in anger or desperation of some other sort.
Airline operations are inherently complex on the ground and in the sky. The system depends on quiet and seamless collaboration of many individuals in many roles, each one expected - as the base-case for success - to do the right thing at the right time in exactly the right way. Management, training, promotion and personal career goals all work to the same convergence of skills and interests that cause a very demanding and unpredictable process to seem reliable and consistently successful in commerce.
When this collaborative and precise activity is contaminated by an individual's behavior that distracts, confuses, and polarises the minds of co-workers, the unavoidable result is that performance suffers. For this reason, if no others, the minimum standard of comportment and demeanor should be set high and kept so for the special persons in the process responsible for command and control.
Airline operations are inherently complex on the ground and in the sky. The system depends on quiet and seamless collaboration of many individuals in many roles, each one expected - as the base-case for success - to do the right thing at the right time in exactly the right way. Management, training, promotion and personal career goals all work to the same convergence of skills and interests that cause a very demanding and unpredictable process to seem reliable and consistently successful in commerce.
When this collaborative and precise activity is contaminated by an individual's behavior that distracts, confuses, and polarises the minds of co-workers, the unavoidable result is that performance suffers. For this reason, if no others, the minimum standard of comportment and demeanor should be set high and kept so for the special persons in the process responsible for command and control.
Last edited by arcniz; 13th Apr 2007 at 01:47.
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The best I can do is a hostie I knew who was mortified by a slip of the tongue once.....
nervous passenger boards flight in Amsterdam.....hostie reassures him 'don't worry Sir, it's just a short flight'...
nervous passenger boards flight in Amsterdam.....hostie reassures him 'don't worry Sir, it's just a short flight'...
After repeating this three times and being completely ignored, she yelled 'Will you all sit the f**k down, until we stop' (in English)
It made me smile that she thought the command would be more effective in English!
SoS
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I-FORD
I would suggest that the SLF are not even aware of this mechanism....
They're already hassled by security and possibly stressed by flying.
Being sworn at by one of the crew members is not going to improve their day.... so they might well overreact too... one more conflict situation.
I would humbly suggest that the SLF don't interfere with this very delicate mechanism...
They're already hassled by security and possibly stressed by flying.
Being sworn at by one of the crew members is not going to improve their day.... so they might well overreact too... one more conflict situation.
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You just cannot get quality passengers these days can you?
Fancy a passenger getting worried or upset by a Captain whose foul mood and language can be heard in the cabin when he's - obviously quite sensibly - locked himself in the Lav - and then being sworn at for asking a stupid question.
There is absolutely no place for such demanding arrogance among passengers - it's not as if they pay for anything after all!
Sit down, shut up and be thankful for small mercies I say. If you don't like it - bl__dy walk!
Fancy a passenger getting worried or upset by a Captain whose foul mood and language can be heard in the cabin when he's - obviously quite sensibly - locked himself in the Lav - and then being sworn at for asking a stupid question.
There is absolutely no place for such demanding arrogance among passengers - it's not as if they pay for anything after all!
Sit down, shut up and be thankful for small mercies I say. If you don't like it - bl__dy walk!
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So thanks to some busibody passenger who takes it upon themselves to save the world from the odd swearword, several hundred passengers get inconvinienced and delayed getting home...hmm as a passenger I woyld have F-bombed them as well if this had happened to me.
After being bum-raped by Security and treated as cattle by the airline staff, I just want to GET HOME!! damn do-gooders and bible thumpers...
After being bum-raped by Security and treated as cattle by the airline staff, I just want to GET HOME!! damn do-gooders and bible thumpers...
Rotate on this!
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"So thanks to some busibody passenger who takes it upon themselves to save the world from the odd swearword, several hundred passengers get inconvinienced and delayed getting home...hmm as a passenger I woyld have F-bombed them as well if this had happened to me. "
er....
I'm sorry to say that when someone acts so out of character, (I fly a lot and I can assure you pilots and CC are some of the most polite and customer service orientated people I have met), I too would be concerned.
It seems obvious to me that something had SERIOUSLY stressed this guy out and whilst I can sit safeltly at my desk counting beans whilst stressed, flying is a whole different ball game.
er....
I'm sorry to say that when someone acts so out of character, (I fly a lot and I can assure you pilots and CC are some of the most polite and customer service orientated people I have met), I too would be concerned.
It seems obvious to me that something had SERIOUSLY stressed this guy out and whilst I can sit safeltly at my desk counting beans whilst stressed, flying is a whole different ball game.
