View Poll Results: Should airline pilots be tested for alcohol before every flight?
I am a professional pilot and I say YES
79
7.60%
I am a professional pilot and I say NO
616
59.29%
I am NOT a professional pilot and I say YES
64
6.16%
I am NOT a professional pilot and I say NO
240
23.10%
I have no opinion or am happy with the status quo
40
3.85%
Voters: 1039. This poll is closed
VS A340 pilot breathalysed at LHR: WRONGLY ACCUSED
short flights long nights
exactly my thoughts Alex
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From post #141
Very good news indeed.
If I was the individual involved, once all the legalities surrounded this "incident" had drawn to a close, I'd be very tempted to publish all the facts - mainly to embarrass those who have vilified an innocent man, and to show what utter, utter rubbish is printed in the world's press, (led off in handcuffs, the word 'drunk' etc etc)
To the individual concerned - looking forward to flying with you soon.
Right, enough of this nonsense. From a very very very very good source. Don't even think about questioning this sources reliability. PERIOD , 4.5 on the blood test. Driving limit is 80 and fly limit is 20. End of thread i would suggest and maybe an aplology from some is in order. The Captain in question has been reading this. Brgds
Very good news indeed.
If I was the individual involved, once all the legalities surrounded this "incident" had drawn to a close, I'd be very tempted to publish all the facts - mainly to embarrass those who have vilified an innocent man, and to show what utter, utter rubbish is printed in the world's press, (led off in handcuffs, the word 'drunk' etc etc)
To the individual concerned - looking forward to flying with you soon.
Last edited by Tags; 6th Apr 2007 at 14:32. Reason: To highlight bold type from post #141
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If a "rent a cop" was responsible for this incident, he or she should be crucified for their part in ruining a man's career, not to mention the anguish his family has endured
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Excellent News!
I think that 6 months off to recover from the induced stress is now in order.
Looking forward to a natter soon.
I think that 6 months off to recover from the induced stress is now in order.
Looking forward to a natter soon.
Last edited by Shanwick Shanwick; 6th Apr 2007 at 17:50.
Lucky he wasn't Brazilian otherwise the Bill would have shot him on the spot.
After 28 years of flying for a major airline I am glad to be retiring in a few months.
We are now treated like monkeys and, at most airports, like a an alcoholic at best, and a terrorist at worst.
Bring on the pilotless a/c and I will start investing in the body-bag business.
After 28 years of flying for a major airline I am glad to be retiring in a few months.
We are now treated like monkeys and, at most airports, like a an alcoholic at best, and a terrorist at worst.
Bring on the pilotless a/c and I will start investing in the body-bag business.
I'd love to know if he had had cause to say something that upset his reporter, who then decided to ruin his day. Just speculating, but if some idiot decides to report something of this nature out of vindictiveness surely their must be some sort of come-back. Does the law allow you to sue for slander?
Please Note I'm NOT saying this happened in this case.
Please Note I'm NOT saying this happened in this case.
short flights long nights
surely the law allows a comeback..if not...perhaps we should ALL refuse to go through ANY airport secuity checks...lets see how that works 
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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So, here we have it! A scumbag, lying journalist from the Sun newspaper breaks the story with a total fabrication about being arrested on the flight deck and being handcuffed and led out under arrest in front of the passengers and an accusation that the pilot was "drunk" and about to kill hundreds of people. Nothing of the sort happened but why let the truth get in the way of a good story. I have it on good authority that the Captain was asked to leave the flight deck and the aircraft of his own free will and that the breath test was done out of the public view.
Well, that set the tone nicely for the rest of the posters on here who decided that that was enough evidence to convict and damn the captain from behind their pathetic cloaks of anonimity. We'll come back to those petty gloaters and accusers in a minute.
I also have it on good authority that the breath test was barely over the legal minimum and we all know why they had to set something greater than zero. A few pieces of fruit with a slow peristaltic condition and the body can ferment enough natural alcohol to put one over the limit. The police were called and have to take a breath test to cover their own @rses and it registers just over the minimum limit which is as good as zero anyway. Someone then leaks the story to the scum journos ad the rest of the low life media jump on the bandwagon.
At the police station a blood sample is taken and half of it is given to the Captain should he want to have his own tests performed on it. The tests come back well below the minimum. Now we have to wait for the official announcement but you can bet your last dollar that it won't come from the lying excreta that call themselves journalists.
So what do we do with those holier than thou posters on here who shot from the hip and were no better than the scumbags who reported the incident and blew it out of all proportion in the first place? Do we have some kind of mark of Cain that we can put next to their usernames to indicate the low esteem that the rest of us hold them in? Do the exonerate themselves by making a public apology?
It is so frustrating to have fraternal colleagues put under such stress by incompetent security staffers who can't tell the difference between Ketones on the breath and alcohol, police who have absolutely no latitude because of the PC (excuse the pun) brigades, journalists with the integrity of piece of three day old, used toilet paper floating down the sewer and to top it off, holier than thou posters on here who more than likely have never been near the cockpit of a real jet.
So, who'll be the first of them to apologise on here? Do we have to create a list of their names?
I suggest we all have some really juicy food and don't brush our teeth for 24 hours before reporting for work and then get s close as you can to the screeners who check you and breath all over them. I would reckon that they'd soon back off and think twice before wasting everyones time.
Well, that set the tone nicely for the rest of the posters on here who decided that that was enough evidence to convict and damn the captain from behind their pathetic cloaks of anonimity. We'll come back to those petty gloaters and accusers in a minute.
I also have it on good authority that the breath test was barely over the legal minimum and we all know why they had to set something greater than zero. A few pieces of fruit with a slow peristaltic condition and the body can ferment enough natural alcohol to put one over the limit. The police were called and have to take a breath test to cover their own @rses and it registers just over the minimum limit which is as good as zero anyway. Someone then leaks the story to the scum journos ad the rest of the low life media jump on the bandwagon.
At the police station a blood sample is taken and half of it is given to the Captain should he want to have his own tests performed on it. The tests come back well below the minimum. Now we have to wait for the official announcement but you can bet your last dollar that it won't come from the lying excreta that call themselves journalists.
So what do we do with those holier than thou posters on here who shot from the hip and were no better than the scumbags who reported the incident and blew it out of all proportion in the first place? Do we have some kind of mark of Cain that we can put next to their usernames to indicate the low esteem that the rest of us hold them in? Do the exonerate themselves by making a public apology?
It is so frustrating to have fraternal colleagues put under such stress by incompetent security staffers who can't tell the difference between Ketones on the breath and alcohol, police who have absolutely no latitude because of the PC (excuse the pun) brigades, journalists with the integrity of piece of three day old, used toilet paper floating down the sewer and to top it off, holier than thou posters on here who more than likely have never been near the cockpit of a real jet.
So, who'll be the first of them to apologise on here? Do we have to create a list of their names?
I suggest we all have some really juicy food and don't brush our teeth for 24 hours before reporting for work and then get s close as you can to the screeners who check you and breath all over them. I would reckon that they'd soon back off and think twice before wasting everyones time.
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The trouble is that the police sample result takes 5 to 6 weeks to come through even though it is possible to get a private sample result within days. So, this poor bloke still has to go through weeks of hell waiting for confirmation. (There is still a nagging doubt at the back of the mind, however irrational.) The police analysis procedures are still based on the driving limit and have not caught up with the latest legislation; hence the necessity to send off to independent laboratories. I bet you this poor guy will have to remain suspended until the police result comes through.
Bear up - you can get through it.
Bear up - you can get through it.
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cargo boy wrote:
"It is so frustrating to have fraternal colleagues put under such stress by incompetent security staffers who can't tell the difference between Ketones on the breath and alcohol, police who have absolutely no latitude because of the PC (excuse the pun) brigades, journalists with the integrity of piece of three day old, used toilet paper floating down the sewer and to top it off, holier than thou posters on here who more than likely have never been near the cockpit of a real jet."
I am sure that most of the posters on pprune have never been near the cockpit of a real jet. Aviation attracts a lot of wannabees and pprune welcomes them onto this website, many of them posing as professional pilots. The level of debate is predictably abysmal and it won’t improve until it is possible to differentiate between the professionals and the rest. I presume that it is in pprune’s commercial interest to allow unlimited access to the forums so I don’t expect to see an improvement soon.
Getting back to the topic of this thread, perhaps the time has come for all airline pilots to put a discreet splash of whisky on their ties before going through security.
"It is so frustrating to have fraternal colleagues put under such stress by incompetent security staffers who can't tell the difference between Ketones on the breath and alcohol, police who have absolutely no latitude because of the PC (excuse the pun) brigades, journalists with the integrity of piece of three day old, used toilet paper floating down the sewer and to top it off, holier than thou posters on here who more than likely have never been near the cockpit of a real jet."
I am sure that most of the posters on pprune have never been near the cockpit of a real jet. Aviation attracts a lot of wannabees and pprune welcomes them onto this website, many of them posing as professional pilots. The level of debate is predictably abysmal and it won’t improve until it is possible to differentiate between the professionals and the rest. I presume that it is in pprune’s commercial interest to allow unlimited access to the forums so I don’t expect to see an improvement soon.
Getting back to the topic of this thread, perhaps the time has come for all airline pilots to put a discreet splash of whisky on their ties before going through security.
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Breathalize Yes or NO
There should be a good method for a pilot (F/O or Capt.) to be able to go to work in uniform and - if he has any doubts - check his levers before final flight checking in...
now this raises the point of when that "checking in" occurs - I would advocate - after the crew has assembled - so that the colleagues can "suggest" a check might be a good idea. We all make mistaces and we all should have a chance to avoid the really traumatic consequences - and get the help needed. It is in everybody's best interests - especially the airlines interest because they have also invested a fortune in training.
Anyway then once you've really "checked in" - what happens is what happens - fair or unfair - whatever but you had your chance and your colleagues had a chance to save you.
Something like this might want to be added to the sticky ???
Cheers Gofer
now this raises the point of when that "checking in" occurs - I would advocate - after the crew has assembled - so that the colleagues can "suggest" a check might be a good idea. We all make mistaces and we all should have a chance to avoid the really traumatic consequences - and get the help needed. It is in everybody's best interests - especially the airlines interest because they have also invested a fortune in training.
Anyway then once you've really "checked in" - what happens is what happens - fair or unfair - whatever but you had your chance and your colleagues had a chance to save you.
Something like this might want to be added to the sticky ???
Cheers Gofer
I flew with the Captain concerned several times when I was with VS a few years ago. As a post above says that he is following this thread, this is a personal message to you. I really enjoyed our trips together and I am so relieved that everything is going your way. Please PM me if you wish for a chat and I hope that you take me on holiday this summer!
Best wishes and good luck
D
Best wishes and good luck
D
Gofer, I was thinking the same, but it should be determined before one puts on a uniform. Perhaps a cheap yet reliable go-nogo portable breathalizer for crew, which should be a commodity for all crew.
To the involved Capt. : Wish you all the best clearing your name, God knows you deserve it.
To the involved Capt. : Wish you all the best clearing your name, God knows you deserve it.
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Instead of complaining on here about the journalist fabricating elements of the story I suggest we email the guy himself to let him know what we think of his behaviour - his address is at the bottom of the article on the website
[email protected]
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007150123,00.html
or even better lodging a complaint with the press complaints commission - that might make the sun think twice in future and at least would force them to print a correction regarding being led off the plane in handcuffs.
http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/process.html
[email protected]
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007150123,00.html
or even better lodging a complaint with the press complaints commission - that might make the sun think twice in future and at least would force them to print a correction regarding being led off the plane in handcuffs.
http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/process.html
Considerably Bemused Wannabe
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Although I've been following this thread/issue closely, not being a pilot myself I didn't really feel I could contribute anything constructive to this thread, hence me not posting until now. As has been said, a lot of drivel has been written thus far by folk unqualified to comment.
I'm delighted to hear (what I suspected would happen eventually) that the pilot in question has been cleared of any wrong doing. I'm not going to rabble on in this post, sufficed to say I echo what cargo boy posted.
I hope the captain in question has not been badly affected by recent events, and that he makes a speedy return to the skies. Oh...and an apology or two from certain folk wouldn't go amiss either.
Cheers,
S
I'm delighted to hear (what I suspected would happen eventually) that the pilot in question has been cleared of any wrong doing. I'm not going to rabble on in this post, sufficed to say I echo what cargo boy posted.
I hope the captain in question has not been badly affected by recent events, and that he makes a speedy return to the skies. Oh...and an apology or two from certain folk wouldn't go amiss either.
Cheers,
S
Cool as a moosp
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Gopher and Ray Cosmic, you are missing the whole point. There is no need for a "go-nogo portable breathalyzer for crew".
Crew blood alcohol levels are not a flight safety problem, as has been shown by numerous search links on this and other forums. The incidence of true positives of flight crew flying or attempting to fly with an alcohol level above the standard of the particular state is so low as to be almost statistically irrelevant.
What is happening is that disgruntled "security" staff are abusing their positions by mis-reporting crew infractions. It makes them feel big for the day if they ground a pilot, and their mates buy them drinks in the pub that night. The downside risk to them for a false positive is minimal, perhaps even an advantage, which is why they continue to falsely accuse members of our profession.
I do not have all the answers, but one for sure is that we need to know the name or staff number of every TSA/ security person that comes within two metres of us, in the event that an accusation is made. Remember that this accusation will be made many minutes after passing through security, so the perpetrator can hide behind his supervisor.
Passive resistance within the law is also a way to bring the inanities of the procedures that we go through to the notice of the leaders of our industry, who so far have been suspiciously quiet on the matter of crew harassment, and to my mind appear to be complicit in it.
And I love the idea of a "Whiskey on the Tie" day for all aircrew worldwide. If for nothing else it would bring this criminal activity of false accusation out into the open once and for all.
Crew blood alcohol levels are not a flight safety problem, as has been shown by numerous search links on this and other forums. The incidence of true positives of flight crew flying or attempting to fly with an alcohol level above the standard of the particular state is so low as to be almost statistically irrelevant.
What is happening is that disgruntled "security" staff are abusing their positions by mis-reporting crew infractions. It makes them feel big for the day if they ground a pilot, and their mates buy them drinks in the pub that night. The downside risk to them for a false positive is minimal, perhaps even an advantage, which is why they continue to falsely accuse members of our profession.
I do not have all the answers, but one for sure is that we need to know the name or staff number of every TSA/ security person that comes within two metres of us, in the event that an accusation is made. Remember that this accusation will be made many minutes after passing through security, so the perpetrator can hide behind his supervisor.
Passive resistance within the law is also a way to bring the inanities of the procedures that we go through to the notice of the leaders of our industry, who so far have been suspiciously quiet on the matter of crew harassment, and to my mind appear to be complicit in it.
And I love the idea of a "Whiskey on the Tie" day for all aircrew worldwide. If for nothing else it would bring this criminal activity of false accusation out into the open once and for all.
The Reverend
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Discokid, there is no point in lodging a complaint with The Sun or the Press Complaints Commission. Anybody with the mentality to waste his money on purchasing The Sun, will never be convinced that he is not reading the Holy Bible. Leave it to Sir Richard Branson if he can be bothered, he has sorted greater adversaries than The Sun in the not too distant past.
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My My isnt hindsight a wonderful thing.Fortunately my only contribution hit the nail on the head.
Think on guys, there but for the grace of god go many of us.And all we will have had is a glass of wine with dinner and a row with a security person.
Think on guys, there but for the grace of god go many of us.And all we will have had is a glass of wine with dinner and a row with a security person.