Airport screening ends in uproar
Join Date: Dec 1999
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So, what's the solution? No ID cards, no securtity checks, etc. Their is no doubt that the system has it's flaws. Therefore the existing sytem has to be fine tuned and adapted to be more practical. As some of the sujest, it's imposible to make these security checks full proof. But what's intolerable, is that flight crew's are not given the respect and treatment that they deserve. We are after all going to work and also have to do security checks, onboard our aircraft. It's time to sit down with the competent authorities and try to solve this conflict.
Have you ever tried to take a security chaps name!. .Seems that could be an arrestable offence.. .I was just reporting a lapse of security a few years ago. Nothing actually happened as I managed (JUST) to keep cool. Finally managed to get to speak to the security manager of the Airport who I believe suspended the individual who was not doing his job. The one who wouldn't supply his name.. .Somehow I believe all this agro with flt crews is not doing security OR flight crews any good. Maybe a sensible court ruling will clear the air.
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Airport police in SLC detained a Southwest captain on the ramp after he showed his identification. He was doing a preflight inspection of the aircraft. It is ridiculous. We can’t do our jobs like this. Something has to change. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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Right on L-5. What are we going to do about it!
For anyone with strong feelings on this issue, the deadline for commentary to the DOT is 2/14/02.
Docket ID number - FAA 2001-111229 . .Document Title - "Firearms, Less-than-Lethal Weapons and Emergency Services on Commercial Air Flights."
. .<a href="http://dmses.dot.gov/submit/BlankDSS.asp" target="_blank">Fill out the comment form on arming pilots</a>
For anyone with strong feelings on this issue, the deadline for commentary to the DOT is 2/14/02.
Docket ID number - FAA 2001-111229 . .Document Title - "Firearms, Less-than-Lethal Weapons and Emergency Services on Commercial Air Flights."
. .<a href="http://dmses.dot.gov/submit/BlankDSS.asp" target="_blank">Fill out the comment form on arming pilots</a>
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Hopefully someone in the press is starting to pay attention.....This insanity has to stop.
<a href="http://www.ticked.com/cheapcharlie/2002/chcrew.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ticked.com/cheapcharlie/2002/chcrew.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.ticked.com/cheapcharlie/2002/chcrew.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ticked.com/cheapcharlie/2002/chcrew.htm</a>
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Finally, as you say, people will start to notice the impractical and illogical way flight crew's are being screened and checked. At least this posting, would have fulfilled it's purpose! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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I remember similar stories in my Air Force 15 years ago. Because of a perceived threat of soviet origin, very tight security procedures had been enforced for years.
OK for the idea, but the result was so-called "AF commandos" always on the rampage, uneducated low-extraction guys being given the free opportunity to harass higher-ranking officers, fighter pilots with all their shining gear..... so they took this opportunity to extract a revenge from their low conditions, and life was miserable quite often.. .In case of any incident, it was always the fault of the pilot, not of the "commando" (as a dog biting a pilot coming back from his aircraft in the dark, after an exhausting night-flight)
So all those stories nowadays in the airlines remind me of my youth in the AF : obviously those gentlemen will go for aircrew first.
It seems that today in Heathrow, security was too busy screening aircrew...
Fly safe
OK for the idea, but the result was so-called "AF commandos" always on the rampage, uneducated low-extraction guys being given the free opportunity to harass higher-ranking officers, fighter pilots with all their shining gear..... so they took this opportunity to extract a revenge from their low conditions, and life was miserable quite often.. .In case of any incident, it was always the fault of the pilot, not of the "commando" (as a dog biting a pilot coming back from his aircraft in the dark, after an exhausting night-flight)
So all those stories nowadays in the airlines remind me of my youth in the AF : obviously those gentlemen will go for aircrew first.
It seems that today in Heathrow, security was too busy screening aircrew...
Fly safe
Join Date: May 1999
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T455, I think a nation wide one-day suspension of service in protest of the treatment we are receiving would be a good start.
Our union has already made the recommendation that flight crews stay together at security. No one leaves until we all get through. It has become so bad; the problems are so numerous, that we need to have witnesses in this “us against them” battle.
If the police or NG detains you after you showed proper identification, only give them your name rank and employee number. Ask for a lawyer immediately. Say nothing else. We still have our Miranda rights.
If you are treated in such a way as to cause you emotional distress, abused, arrested, detained, or hassled, wait until you feel better before operating an aircraft. Take an hour or two or as long as it takes to calm down. Go home if you feel you cannot concentrate on the job of flying. Be safe.
Stick together and support your coworkers, the other pilots and flight attendants. Do not expect any help from the “trusted employees”. They seem to think that just because they can come in the backdoor, without going through security, they are somehow better than us. We are seeing them become just as bad as the security people. They have turned against pilots and flight attendants on numerous occasions.
Our management wants us to put on a show to make the public feel better. It is backfiring in their face. The show at security is turning into a three-ring-circus. The flying public sees how ridiculous it is. I hear them say how stupid it is for flight crews to be searched every day.
In recent poles here in the US the majority wanted pilots to be armed. They want us to protect them and keep them safe even if it means using deadly force. But our management doesn’t want us to be armed. When a man recently tried to force his way into the cockpit a pilot hit him with the fire axe. The pubic loved it. They were glad the pilot had a weapon and that he used it. That’s what they want to see. They want us to part of the solution. They want us to be the final level of security.
Airports can never be made 100% secure. The airport robbery in England proves that. And when they say they have better security than we do here in the US, I have no reason not to believe them. So where does that leave us? I’ll tell you where. We now have the greatest show on earth. The multi-billion-dollar security show.
Our union has already made the recommendation that flight crews stay together at security. No one leaves until we all get through. It has become so bad; the problems are so numerous, that we need to have witnesses in this “us against them” battle.
If the police or NG detains you after you showed proper identification, only give them your name rank and employee number. Ask for a lawyer immediately. Say nothing else. We still have our Miranda rights.
If you are treated in such a way as to cause you emotional distress, abused, arrested, detained, or hassled, wait until you feel better before operating an aircraft. Take an hour or two or as long as it takes to calm down. Go home if you feel you cannot concentrate on the job of flying. Be safe.
Stick together and support your coworkers, the other pilots and flight attendants. Do not expect any help from the “trusted employees”. They seem to think that just because they can come in the backdoor, without going through security, they are somehow better than us. We are seeing them become just as bad as the security people. They have turned against pilots and flight attendants on numerous occasions.
Our management wants us to put on a show to make the public feel better. It is backfiring in their face. The show at security is turning into a three-ring-circus. The flying public sees how ridiculous it is. I hear them say how stupid it is for flight crews to be searched every day.
In recent poles here in the US the majority wanted pilots to be armed. They want us to protect them and keep them safe even if it means using deadly force. But our management doesn’t want us to be armed. When a man recently tried to force his way into the cockpit a pilot hit him with the fire axe. The pubic loved it. They were glad the pilot had a weapon and that he used it. That’s what they want to see. They want us to part of the solution. They want us to be the final level of security.
Airports can never be made 100% secure. The airport robbery in England proves that. And when they say they have better security than we do here in the US, I have no reason not to believe them. So where does that leave us? I’ll tell you where. We now have the greatest show on earth. The multi-billion-dollar security show.
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There is a growing consensus, now among the moderate voices, that the pilot's unions should shut down the North American System for 24 hours in order to get their attention...IMHO I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.
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[quote]Trip455, I hear Southwest is trying to fire Larry. What do you think we should do about it?<hr></blockquote>
Lets ALL write letters to the AZ republic <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
. .He's getting fired for asking WHY it was taking so long to do an unnecessary bag search? Or was it for asking to see the scarecrow's ID?
We can't have anyone spoiling the show now, can we?
Lets ALL write letters to the AZ republic <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
. .He's getting fired for asking WHY it was taking so long to do an unnecessary bag search? Or was it for asking to see the scarecrow's ID?
We can't have anyone spoiling the show now, can we?
Gatvol
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I really feel for the two pilots mentioned in this thread, as Im sure they will get lost in the shuffle. Heres hoping the ALPA is as strong as the dues they collect. . .Its really scary to know we are at the last notch and protected by the National Guard. They have gone out of their way in the last few years to put uniforms on otherwise homless folks with little education and other questionable standards. As to the Full Time Guard, most of those folks ended up there, because they could'nt find gainful employment in other sectors. We are really in deep s-h-i-t.
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Agent: "Has anyone placed anything in your luggage without your knowledge?"
Passenger: "If it was without my knowledge, how would I know?"
Agent: "That's why we ask!"
Passenger: "If it was without my knowledge, how would I know?"
Agent: "That's why we ask!"
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Lets not bash the National Guard because we are pissed at the lack of leadership that put them in an untenable position - of course security is a joke - all of us frequent flyer pax have been saying that, the flight crews have been saying it, only the people that can change the system are not listening. As a former member of th Nat'l Guard I can say that many members are committed professionals who volunteer their time far beyond the requirements of their "part time job". They should not be guarding our airports because that is not what they are trained for and they apparently have been given little authority - that does not mean that they are incompetent, homeless, lazy or otherwise less than average.
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I’m wondering why the general news media, with the notable exception of a few, have not taken up the security debate. You would have thought that such a hot aviation subject would be generating loads of reporting.
Have the news media being muzzled? Of course only as a security measure, the general public have to be protected you know…
Have the news media being muzzled? Of course only as a security measure, the general public have to be protected you know…
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I am sure that the SOUTHWEST pilot leadership will come to the aid of their brother!!! They may not be ALPA but I know that no pilot group can let this B S go on!!
If not, we need to get this to FOX NEWS fast!! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
If not, we need to get this to FOX NEWS fast!! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
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spinproof,
Our union leadership is working on it.
It is very disappointing for us to see the company management attack our own people this way.
The company hates any negative publicity. If a pilot talks to the media he/she can be fired even if it is off the record. A call to Fox news would be risking a career.
Our union leadership is working on it.
It is very disappointing for us to see the company management attack our own people this way.
The company hates any negative publicity. If a pilot talks to the media he/she can be fired even if it is off the record. A call to Fox news would be risking a career.
Gatvol
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Biz SLF.......BTDT also...... If you've been there, you know exactly of the ones Im speaking of, and I agree they are put in a precarious position with no training and big guns. A very expensive Goat-Rope for the taxpayer.