Airport screening ends in uproar
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Airport screening ends in uproar
Airport screening ends in uproar . .2002-02-08. .By Bryan Dean. .The Oklahoman
. .A Southwest Airlines pilot is on leave while the company investigates a disturbance he was involved in at Will Rogers World Airport, a Southwest spokeswoman said. . .An Oklahoma City police report stated that the bag of the pilot, Larry Hargus, was pulled aside Tuesday at a security checkpoint so it could be searched. Hargus became agitated after he waited several minutes and asked screeners twice to search his bag so he could walk to his aircraft, the report stated.
At that point, the report stated, a National Guardsman assigned to airport security asked Hargus for identification. Hargus lifted the identification badge on his shirt but would not remove the card when the guardsman asked, the report stated. The guardsman then grabbed the tag from Hargus' shirt, and Hargus responded by grabbing the identification tag on the guardsman's shirt, the report stated. Police then arrived and mediated the dispute.
The report stated that Hargus told police he was not upset that his bag was being searched, only that other people were being screened after his bag was set down and not searched immediately.
Southwest ground personnel then talked to Hargus, who made a phone call, the report stated. During that phone call, the police report stated, Hargus stepped into the hall and began loudly telling passengers at another gate why the plane was late.
Hargus was not allowed to fly and was escorted from the security area. The report stated that he later returned in street clothes to fly as a passenger, but was told by a Southwest supervisor that he would not be allowed to fly Tuesday.
Southwest spokeswoman Whitney Brewer said the company is investigating the incident.
"The investigation is ongoing, and our pilot is on leave during the investigation," Brewer said.
Karen Carney, spokeswoman for Oklahoma City airports, said airport employees and flight crews are screened like everyone else.
"I think it's important for people to realize that everybody is being screened, and the screeners aren't making exceptions for anyone," Carney said. "For the most part, employees of the airport and the airlines have been accepting of the new regulations. They have a lot at stake."
Brewer said the post-Sept. 11 security measures are not easy on employees, but they are necessary.
"It's an adjustment for all of us here at Southwest Airlines, but all of our employees try to comply as closely as possible to the security regulations. This would be an isolated incident."
. .A Southwest Airlines pilot is on leave while the company investigates a disturbance he was involved in at Will Rogers World Airport, a Southwest spokeswoman said. . .An Oklahoma City police report stated that the bag of the pilot, Larry Hargus, was pulled aside Tuesday at a security checkpoint so it could be searched. Hargus became agitated after he waited several minutes and asked screeners twice to search his bag so he could walk to his aircraft, the report stated.
At that point, the report stated, a National Guardsman assigned to airport security asked Hargus for identification. Hargus lifted the identification badge on his shirt but would not remove the card when the guardsman asked, the report stated. The guardsman then grabbed the tag from Hargus' shirt, and Hargus responded by grabbing the identification tag on the guardsman's shirt, the report stated. Police then arrived and mediated the dispute.
The report stated that Hargus told police he was not upset that his bag was being searched, only that other people were being screened after his bag was set down and not searched immediately.
Southwest ground personnel then talked to Hargus, who made a phone call, the report stated. During that phone call, the police report stated, Hargus stepped into the hall and began loudly telling passengers at another gate why the plane was late.
Hargus was not allowed to fly and was escorted from the security area. The report stated that he later returned in street clothes to fly as a passenger, but was told by a Southwest supervisor that he would not be allowed to fly Tuesday.
Southwest spokeswoman Whitney Brewer said the company is investigating the incident.
"The investigation is ongoing, and our pilot is on leave during the investigation," Brewer said.
Karen Carney, spokeswoman for Oklahoma City airports, said airport employees and flight crews are screened like everyone else.
"I think it's important for people to realize that everybody is being screened, and the screeners aren't making exceptions for anyone," Carney said. "For the most part, employees of the airport and the airlines have been accepting of the new regulations. They have a lot at stake."
Brewer said the post-Sept. 11 security measures are not easy on employees, but they are necessary.
"It's an adjustment for all of us here at Southwest Airlines, but all of our employees try to comply as closely as possible to the security regulations. This would be an isolated incident."
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[quote]Karen Carney, spokeswoman for Oklahoma City airports, said airport employees and flight crews are screened like everyone else.
Carney said. "For the most part, employees of the airport and the airlines have been accepting of the new regulations. They have a lot at stake."
<hr></blockquote>
I love that statement..........She left out a few, very pertinent facts.
It should read:
"I think it's important for people to BELIEVE that everybody is being screened, even if they aren't, and the screeners look like they aren't making exceptions for anyone, except fuelers, provisioners, baggage handlers, mechanics, ops agents, ticket agents, aircraft cleaners, skycaps etc etc etc....." <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Carney said. "For the most part, employees of the airport and the airlines have been accepting of the new regulations. They have a lot at stake."
<hr></blockquote>
I love that statement..........She left out a few, very pertinent facts.
It should read:
"I think it's important for people to BELIEVE that everybody is being screened, even if they aren't, and the screeners look like they aren't making exceptions for anyone, except fuelers, provisioners, baggage handlers, mechanics, ops agents, ticket agents, aircraft cleaners, skycaps etc etc etc....." <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Tripower455. . . .Excellent reply....Who hires people like Karen Carney, spokeswoman for Oklahoma City airports???. . . .Is there any wonder why we have a security problem when management is a bunch of idiots.....
I'm always thinking who's screening the screeners; who's screening the National Guards; who's screening the airport police etc., etc. Let's face it, there are some weirdos out there and they can come in any guise.
Right Huck, the 'late' Tim, never made it into the Green Berets (and Hitler never drew a decent picture for the Vienna art school).
Is there a way to alert the public about the fact that most airline/airport employees who work around airplanes, on the ground, are never required by many US airports to go through any x-ray machines, or have to undo belts, take off shoes etc?
Sometimes, while in uniform, I tell passengers about this fact, hoping that I'll run into a politician.
[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>
Is there a way to alert the public about the fact that most airline/airport employees who work around airplanes, on the ground, are never required by many US airports to go through any x-ray machines, or have to undo belts, take off shoes etc?
Sometimes, while in uniform, I tell passengers about this fact, hoping that I'll run into a politician.
[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>
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Here are the e-mail addresses for key people at the Oklahoma City Airports Department:
Luther Trent, Director of Airports . [email protected]
Kevin Lee, Security Manager. [email protected]
Karen Carney, Public Relations. [email protected]
Luther Trent, Director of Airports . [email protected]
Kevin Lee, Security Manager. [email protected]
Karen Carney, Public Relations. [email protected]
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It's interesting to read that you have the same problems in the U.S.A as I have experienced in the U.K.. .I operated out of the same U.K. Airport for 7 years and was constantly amazed at the fact that engineers/cleaners & other ground staff were allowed to walk through a hangar door (sometimes carrying large tool boxes) and straight onto aircraft without ever walking through security or having there I.D.s checked. Of course the aircrew were always made to walk through security and although I never had a problem with this, at the end of the day Airport Security is only as good as it's weakest link!
If there are any airport managers reading this please do us all a favour - TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT REALLY HAPPENS AT YOUR AIRPORT AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW.
If there are any airport managers reading this please do us all a favour - TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT REALLY HAPPENS AT YOUR AIRPORT AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW.
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I went through security in Oklahoma City last week. It took them about ten minutes just to x-ray my two bags. When I asked if there was a problem, they told me, “This is the home of the FAA. They are here all the time. They watch everything we do. We have to be very careful with the flight crews.”
[quote]I'm not bothered by the fact that I have to get searched and the fueller does not.<hr></blockquote>
Why doesn't this bother you, U3K; I would have thought that this is the crux of the security argument. If you are going to try and provide as tight security as possible, you need to screen evrybody that gets airside.
[quote]I am bothered by the fact that a pilot could be treated in the manner listed above by a national guardsman who is on a massive ego trip because now he can dress up and play soldier and carry his gun to the airport and look cool interrogating people. These are the same guys who never finished second level comprehensive school and who chose the army as a career!<hr></blockquote>
What a ridiculously pompous and arrogant outlook on life. Get a grip.
Why doesn't this bother you, U3K; I would have thought that this is the crux of the security argument. If you are going to try and provide as tight security as possible, you need to screen evrybody that gets airside.
[quote]I am bothered by the fact that a pilot could be treated in the manner listed above by a national guardsman who is on a massive ego trip because now he can dress up and play soldier and carry his gun to the airport and look cool interrogating people. These are the same guys who never finished second level comprehensive school and who chose the army as a career!<hr></blockquote>
What a ridiculously pompous and arrogant outlook on life. Get a grip.
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Seems to me that the way to solve this situation is for the crews to do EXACTLY what security says even it it takes a while. Then when the flight is delayed or you miss a deadhead the reason should be accurately given as the crew was delayed at security. . .Only when the planes start getting delayed will attention be given to this problem.. .Sheila 
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Ed Winchester,. .I totally agree that everyone MUST be checked. But unfortunately, and especially in the US I realised that those checks are carried out in the dumbest way and by obviously untrained people. (Let's not mention their manners, or we should mention the manners of the immigration officers as well <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> ) . .On September the 17th in JFK our crew were asked if we had any tools. Subsequently we were confiscated corkscrews, tweezers, nail clippers, the tiny scissors (1.5 cm blades and round ended) we use for unsealing and the tool we use to seal with lead seals (looks more or less like a nutcracker). Too bad that some of us went through the screening with more tools they had forgot about, like a 15 cm scissor, nail scissors, metallic nailfiles etc, with not a blink from the "security" officers.. .In MIA we queued for 1.5 hour in October (average pax waiting time 2 to 3 hours) to have our PENCIL SHARPENERS confiscated. I mean the plastic ones with virtually no blade. . .I don't think those checks are as efficient as they COULD be. It seems to me that they hastily made up some rule to give the impression that something was being made. But obviously, a real professional was not consulted because there is no reason for silly rules when you could have clever rules for the same price.. .As a crew member, I have no objection on being searched, even if I consider it quite silly to turn inside out like used socks the pilots when they could achieve anything they want by just sitting at their place without having to force their way to the cockpit.. .And for what is of the cabin, it is a real masterpiece to have those ridiculous knifes removed and not the FORKS. If I had ever to spit someone I'd do it with a fork. I mean, did they HAVE A LOOK at the dumb forks and knives before making a decision? And if I wanted to knock out the Captain, do you think I would use a TWEEZER or a GLASS wine bottle? . .I already can see some objection coming for writing this here. But folks, If I could figure it out, don't worry, terrorists did before me, I am not revealing any secret aviation policy.. .The general impression I have is that the Security "brains" are wasting time running behind the terrorists; and that the terrorists are way ahead. After 11/9 we were searched for blades, now they sniff our pumps. I hope no terrorist will come out with the idea of stuffing his underpants with T4, or we are going to get through the nastiest checks <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> ...
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With the criteria posted by some of the above members, I wonder if anyone knows or has thought about; who checks the security personnel? Am I to asume that they ( the security people) are above all suspicion. And that we, as flight crew's seem to be under constant suspicion? I mean, honestly, are the airlines also being investigated? Are the airlines to be doubted in the way they carry out their security measures? As far as I know, all airline personnel are constantly checked on an internal bases. They ( the airlines) also have a data base of all their flying and non flying employees. That's the whole point of issuing an I.D card!. .The INS, for one, have copies (formats) of practically every airlines ID card, that operates in and out of the USA.. .I go back to a previous posting; there must be a way of establishing some sort of a data base? . .I just hope that time and experience, will result in the elabration of a better system. I also hope that the pilots unions can intervene and help the various agencies in sorting this mess.
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Shiela's right - as long as the trains run on time, who cares? Now, the day every pilot shows up 45 minutes prior (as per Standard Practice), waits patiently at the end of the longest passenger line, and does not hurry in any way, thus causing every flight to be late - THEN things will change....
The US FAA's primary concern is how the US public PERCEIVES (is fooled by) their so-called interest in safety (due to the Valuejet crash, now their primary mandate), and how the public gives its feedback to our Congress.
Certain folks in various ranks of the US FAA's "leadership" (pardon my use of this word) have as their main objective, other than stabbing each other in the back, no pun intended (while ruthlessly clawing their way up to higher GS/pay grades) levels, is to insist on proper documentation, no matter how little connection there often is between so much documentation and the operational realities of airlines and airports.
According to a former pilot at Kiwi Airlines (which consisted of many highly-experienced, former Eastern pilots etc, who each invested many thousands of their own money [maybe retirment], in order to finance/create Kiwi's very existence), the only one who I have known, Kiwi was "allegedly" shutdown after their FAA inspector (typically, he seems to have had no real airline experience) noticed that there were no printed boxes on the 'Flightcrew Training' forms for one event: windshear training-does this ring a tiny bell?
After noting that there were checkmarks o u t s i d e the pre-printed boxes on each training form, this was allegedly described as either incomplete, fraudulent or falsified documentation etc, and used as justification to shutdown a very good small airline (small risk for the all-powerful FAA), in order to show the American public, via our media, that the FAA really was doing its job, following the Valuejet crash.
. .Individual kooks and terrorists are not our only enemies in the US airline business, and never have been the only dangers. Whether this can be connected in anyone else's mind to our security situation is secondary. Regarding our citizens' sense of travel safety, the gigantic egos (god-complexes) and political clubbing characteristic of so much of our own government results in wildly distorted, comlpetely inaccurate impressions in the minds of the US public.
I'm well aware that the vast majority are hard-working, helpful employees who are with the FAA's Air Carrier, Certification, and Security Branches etc, and do excellent work, not to mention the huge Air Traffic Control system.
[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]
[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>
Certain folks in various ranks of the US FAA's "leadership" (pardon my use of this word) have as their main objective, other than stabbing each other in the back, no pun intended (while ruthlessly clawing their way up to higher GS/pay grades) levels, is to insist on proper documentation, no matter how little connection there often is between so much documentation and the operational realities of airlines and airports.
According to a former pilot at Kiwi Airlines (which consisted of many highly-experienced, former Eastern pilots etc, who each invested many thousands of their own money [maybe retirment], in order to finance/create Kiwi's very existence), the only one who I have known, Kiwi was "allegedly" shutdown after their FAA inspector (typically, he seems to have had no real airline experience) noticed that there were no printed boxes on the 'Flightcrew Training' forms for one event: windshear training-does this ring a tiny bell?
After noting that there were checkmarks o u t s i d e the pre-printed boxes on each training form, this was allegedly described as either incomplete, fraudulent or falsified documentation etc, and used as justification to shutdown a very good small airline (small risk for the all-powerful FAA), in order to show the American public, via our media, that the FAA really was doing its job, following the Valuejet crash.
. .Individual kooks and terrorists are not our only enemies in the US airline business, and never have been the only dangers. Whether this can be connected in anyone else's mind to our security situation is secondary. Regarding our citizens' sense of travel safety, the gigantic egos (god-complexes) and political clubbing characteristic of so much of our own government results in wildly distorted, comlpetely inaccurate impressions in the minds of the US public.
I'm well aware that the vast majority are hard-working, helpful employees who are with the FAA's Air Carrier, Certification, and Security Branches etc, and do excellent work, not to mention the huge Air Traffic Control system.
[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]
[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>
Flyblue,
I agree with you 100%. The security checks appear to be there for 'appearances sake', are illogical at best, and need to be changed. I just had a problem with the needless abuse of the National Guard, which was peurile and uncalled for (not because I am in the military, either!).
I agree with you 100%. The security checks appear to be there for 'appearances sake', are illogical at best, and need to be changed. I just had a problem with the needless abuse of the National Guard, which was peurile and uncalled for (not because I am in the military, either!).
Seems as though another victim MAY be a US Airways pilot, handcuffed at Philly. Just received the following E-mail:
"Date: . . Sun, 10 Feb 2002
From: . . Budd D******* . .<> . .
Folks, . .One of aviation's true friends and contributors needs help. He needs us to send our opinions to those in control and . .let them know how we feel about what is happening to him.
I'll make this brief: Elwood "Woody" Menear, a Captain for U. S. Airways made the mistake of explaining (in . .conversational tones, according to witnesses) to a supervisor who challenged him at a security check point in . .Philadelphia that it was silly to hand search airline pilots, once they were proven to be who they claimed to be.
His point was that the airline pilots already had control of the airplane and whether they were carrying tweezers or . .not was a moot point.
This was a true and obvious statement, but the young security person decided it was a threat and Woody was lead . .away in handcuffs.
The FBI has yet to file charges, although they have three years in which to do so.
At this point Woody is suspended and expected to be fired by U. S. Airways, as they try to run from possible . .public response to one of their pilots being pictured on the news in handcuffs.
"Unintended consequences" is the phrase that best suits this situation. Yes, increased security measure are . .important. No, they should not be allowed to get out of hand.
The best thing we can do for Woody is to let U.S. Airways know that we think they've let the pendulum swing too . .far the wrong direction. Menear is well known within aviation as a pilot and an aircraft builder and restorer. He is . .also the kind of person you want in the cockpit when the chips are down. We can't let him suffer because of a . .security person who is having a bad day.
Send something to the effect of:
"I feel U. S. Airways should let the facts of the Captain Elwood Menear situation speak for themselves and let . .Captain Menear continue flying for the airline, which is in the best interest of both U.S. Airways and the flying . .public."
The important names and e-mail addresses are listed below.
I apologize to those who received this inadvertently, but I had no way of trimming my address book down. . .
Budd D*******
If you find this as important as I do, please forward it to everyone on your mailing list. . .
Mailing address: . .JOHN C. HONOR, VP HUMAN RESOURCES . .US AIRWAYS CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS . .2345 CRYSTAL DRIVE . .ARLINGTON VA 22227 . .703-872-7000 (PHONE) . [email protected] . . . .
CHAIRMAN AND CEO . .STEPHEN WOLF . .PH ? 703-872-7096 (SECRETARY) . .FAX ? 703-872-5252 . .E-MAIL: [email protected] <[email protected]>
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC RELATIONS . .DAVID CASTELVETER . .FAX ? 703-872-5134 . .E-MAIL: [email protected] . .
CAPTAIN DON MATTHEWS . .REGIONAL DIRECTOR FLYING-PHL . .US AIRWAYS INC . .PHILADELPHIA INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT . .PHILADELPHIA PA 19153 . .FAX ? 610-362-7909 . [email protected]
FAXED LETTERS ARE PREFERRED, HOWEVER, EITHER IS GREATLY APPRECIATED. . .
PLEASE CC: [email protected]"
"Date: . . Sun, 10 Feb 2002
From: . . Budd D******* . .<> . .
Folks, . .One of aviation's true friends and contributors needs help. He needs us to send our opinions to those in control and . .let them know how we feel about what is happening to him.
I'll make this brief: Elwood "Woody" Menear, a Captain for U. S. Airways made the mistake of explaining (in . .conversational tones, according to witnesses) to a supervisor who challenged him at a security check point in . .Philadelphia that it was silly to hand search airline pilots, once they were proven to be who they claimed to be.
His point was that the airline pilots already had control of the airplane and whether they were carrying tweezers or . .not was a moot point.
This was a true and obvious statement, but the young security person decided it was a threat and Woody was lead . .away in handcuffs.
The FBI has yet to file charges, although they have three years in which to do so.
At this point Woody is suspended and expected to be fired by U. S. Airways, as they try to run from possible . .public response to one of their pilots being pictured on the news in handcuffs.
"Unintended consequences" is the phrase that best suits this situation. Yes, increased security measure are . .important. No, they should not be allowed to get out of hand.
The best thing we can do for Woody is to let U.S. Airways know that we think they've let the pendulum swing too . .far the wrong direction. Menear is well known within aviation as a pilot and an aircraft builder and restorer. He is . .also the kind of person you want in the cockpit when the chips are down. We can't let him suffer because of a . .security person who is having a bad day.
Send something to the effect of:
"I feel U. S. Airways should let the facts of the Captain Elwood Menear situation speak for themselves and let . .Captain Menear continue flying for the airline, which is in the best interest of both U.S. Airways and the flying . .public."
The important names and e-mail addresses are listed below.
I apologize to those who received this inadvertently, but I had no way of trimming my address book down. . .
Budd D*******
If you find this as important as I do, please forward it to everyone on your mailing list. . .
Mailing address: . .JOHN C. HONOR, VP HUMAN RESOURCES . .US AIRWAYS CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS . .2345 CRYSTAL DRIVE . .ARLINGTON VA 22227 . .703-872-7000 (PHONE) . [email protected] . . . .
CHAIRMAN AND CEO . .STEPHEN WOLF . .PH ? 703-872-7096 (SECRETARY) . .FAX ? 703-872-5252 . .E-MAIL: [email protected] <[email protected]>
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC RELATIONS . .DAVID CASTELVETER . .FAX ? 703-872-5134 . .E-MAIL: [email protected] . .
CAPTAIN DON MATTHEWS . .REGIONAL DIRECTOR FLYING-PHL . .US AIRWAYS INC . .PHILADELPHIA INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT . .PHILADELPHIA PA 19153 . .FAX ? 610-362-7909 . [email protected]
FAXED LETTERS ARE PREFERRED, HOWEVER, EITHER IS GREATLY APPRECIATED. . .
PLEASE CC: [email protected]"
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Airport Security!!! It is obvious to the majority of us that that have airports as our work place that the security sought for the general public's comfort is unobtainable. The authorities MUST be aware of this or are they so far down the evolutionary chain, yet we give them credit for their efforts out of pity.. . It may be possible to make a city office or bank with one or two doors almost completely secure from walk in intruders but what we're talking about is something 5 miles long and 5 miles wide. I've been around airports all my long working life from an airport employee to one who puts up with the hassles so that I can fly to the other side of the globe to endure someone else's brand of "total security".. . I have seen security evolve from nil, when I could happily park my car near a hangar step over the fence and walk unchallenged across the apron to the Control Tower, to today’s farce. Recently I've spent many hours trying to stay awake on a trans-Pacific flights discussing how ”ïf we were terrorists" could we breach the system. Every flight yields a new way. Terrorists I am sure spend many hours in a dark cave doing the same but not for just amusement. If we had National Guardsmen shoulder to shoulder around the perimeter it still would not be completely secure for reasons other contributors have made clear . .Whilst the majority may happily accept the inconveniences of airport "Security", I do not happily accept it because I have to endure it on a daily basis and I am aware that it is a waste of my time. Without knowing the full details I tend to sympathise with the unfortunate Southwest Airlines Pilot. How many days of your life have you wasted on security being searched and questioned when as a pilot the weapon is in your “hands”.. . Do we want to progress to strip searches and flying in aircraft with cabins devoid of breakable or removable objects which could potentially be used as weapons with cabin trim riveted to the fuselage and the coffee maker only producing cold coffee.. Where an armed security officer sits with us in the cockpit incase we may ourselves endanger our aircraft. Of course he would be suitably trained by the authorities to fly the plane after he had to shoot the pilots.. .Airport security for the most part does a good job in restricting the lunatics ( mentally challenged for PC lovers) who would otherwise board our aircraft. Keeping out professional terrorists? No way!. .What about ID cards? How often do you check every ID card on everyone boarding your aircraft during a turn around and could you recognise a forged or altered ID.. . I remember them being introduced to make airports secure. In my opinion their true value is to get a hotel or hire car discount and in some parts of the world a free entry to a night club with the girls. Either we again restore the value to an ID card so that we may have quick and frustration free entry to our work place or hand them out like credit cards to the general public, as at present they can be a liability trying to make the "security passport", secure. Has anyone ever lost an ID card? . .Until the security experts understand how airports work, talk to people who work there and political input is minimised, airport security will be no more than window dressing , The politicians should spend their time solving the root cause of why one group of people want to cause so much harm to other groups. Now if I were a Palestinian…………
Dwaincleana
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Very well put, DwainCleana.. .Wonder when John Q Public will wake up to the fact that there is no "perfect" security? Only when flight crew start delaying flights due to very prolonged security checks will the airline industry wake up and provide proper aircrew channels....and start screening ground personnel which now have unhindered access to aircraft.
Don't hold your breath waiting for this to happen.
Don't hold your breath waiting for this to happen.