US bid to enable arming of US pilots on all flights
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Huh?
<<So the only chance for people on board to survive is to keep cockpit clean, and gun in skilled hands can help this a lot.>>
I would respectfully suggest that that the ex-marine/air force/navy trained pilot is no more qualified to handle a firearm on the FD than the average joe passenger, full stop.
Do 'they' think so?
Of course these types do.
Otherwise, they would be advocating a more reasonable approach.
Cowboys never are deterred, just careless.
Same for ex-marine/navy/airforce...misinformed all, with regards to firearms on the FD.
I would respectfully suggest that that the ex-marine/air force/navy trained pilot is no more qualified to handle a firearm on the FD than the average joe passenger, full stop.
Do 'they' think so?
Of course these types do.
Otherwise, they would be advocating a more reasonable approach.
Cowboys never are deterred, just careless.
Same for ex-marine/navy/airforce...misinformed all, with regards to firearms on the FD.
411A,
Many here for any period of time would notice your complete contempt for US Major airline pilots. Although I would agree that an ex-USAF pilot's claims to have firearm experience would be lacking if all it consisted of was a ribbon issued after 50 rounds fired through a .38, I would also wonder what your firearms training and experience consists of, and what are your observations on the training FFDO's receive?
I've yet to run into one US armed pilot who feels the weapon makes the cockpit invulnerable or carries any "cowboy" tendencies.
It makes good press for our former colonial "managers" with predisposed political opinions of firearms, but fails the "smell test" badly.
Many here for any period of time would notice your complete contempt for US Major airline pilots. Although I would agree that an ex-USAF pilot's claims to have firearm experience would be lacking if all it consisted of was a ribbon issued after 50 rounds fired through a .38, I would also wonder what your firearms training and experience consists of, and what are your observations on the training FFDO's receive?
I've yet to run into one US armed pilot who feels the weapon makes the cockpit invulnerable or carries any "cowboy" tendencies.
It makes good press for our former colonial "managers" with predisposed political opinions of firearms, but fails the "smell test" badly.
Glueball,
Are we discussing the 727, or the rest of the worlds airline fleets?
From my own experience, including the left seat of the 727, one could ping-pong a passenger silly from floor to ceiling all day long with little fear other than popping an exterior lav service door. Most of todays larger transports with pylon engines and tighter design tolerances would quickly start shedding external panels or worse, especially in the hands of those less skilled and under a high level of stress.
One might also wonder the result if a group of hijackers designate one of the own to remain strapped in an aft facing jumpseat in order to counteract any defensive manuevers.
Your also very dependent on your passenger make up. I've seen more than a few flights where the demographics wouldn't help much in organizing a physical response.
Your thoughts would work well with single, addled individuals with creative immigration plans. Success may be more rare against those types who work in groups and have plans for bigger things.
Are we discussing the 727, or the rest of the worlds airline fleets?
From my own experience, including the left seat of the 727, one could ping-pong a passenger silly from floor to ceiling all day long with little fear other than popping an exterior lav service door. Most of todays larger transports with pylon engines and tighter design tolerances would quickly start shedding external panels or worse, especially in the hands of those less skilled and under a high level of stress.
One might also wonder the result if a group of hijackers designate one of the own to remain strapped in an aft facing jumpseat in order to counteract any defensive manuevers.
Your also very dependent on your passenger make up. I've seen more than a few flights where the demographics wouldn't help much in organizing a physical response.
Your thoughts would work well with single, addled individuals with creative immigration plans. Success may be more rare against those types who work in groups and have plans for bigger things.
Glueball
Do you plan to do those manuevers all the way to the runway?
411
I don't really expect a reply as you're simply trolling and have no knowledge of the FFDO system. However, do you honestly (and that's the key word) think this program is simply a former military thing. Many civilian only FFDO pilots I know would disagree with you.
Do you plan to do those manuevers all the way to the runway?
411
I don't really expect a reply as you're simply trolling and have no knowledge of the FFDO system. However, do you honestly (and that's the key word) think this program is simply a former military thing. Many civilian only FFDO pilots I know would disagree with you.
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I hope the public thinks all cockpits are armed with FFDO's. I do not think they will ever be effective in any in flight situation because of the restrictions but it makes the passenger feel safer. Bullet proof doors with no way to enter cockpit without pilot authorization makes guns unnecessary. If it sells more tickets let them carry guns.
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If it sells more tickets let them carry guns.
I speak as a frequent traveler in premium cabins, e.g. one F last Thursday, one J the day after tomorrow and about 100 sectors per year.
If I think that guns may be carried on a flight, then I will avoid it.
I am not criticizing anyone in this thread, you are all entitled to your opinions, but ultimately I have the right to choose my airline, as do others, some of whom may positively choose to travel under such circumstances.
As a former competition shooter (.45ACP), I do have some insight into handguns and am not a knee jerk "anti gun" lobby member, but I don't feel that carrying in the flight deck enhances safety and would prefer them somewhere else, in the same way that guns are kept out of prisons.
I speak as a frequent traveler in premium cabins, e.g. one F last Thursday, one J the day after tomorrow and about 100 sectors per year.
If I think that guns may be carried on a flight, then I will avoid it.
I am not criticizing anyone in this thread, you are all entitled to your opinions, but ultimately I have the right to choose my airline, as do others, some of whom may positively choose to travel under such circumstances.
As a former competition shooter (.45ACP), I do have some insight into handguns and am not a knee jerk "anti gun" lobby member, but I don't feel that carrying in the flight deck enhances safety and would prefer them somewhere else, in the same way that guns are kept out of prisons.
Why it that the US answer to everything is more guns?
You'll be amazed at how many airlines have sky marshalls on board even in Europe, plus many countries allow law enforcement officers and other selected people to fly carrying their weapons with them.
So letīs leave whole things to professionals. After all, sky marshalls are not required to know how to fly an aeroplane.
From my own experience, including the left seat of the 727, one could ping-pong a passenger silly from floor to ceiling all day long with little fear other than popping an exterior lav service door.
Ever heard of bufffet margins? Or you plan for emerdesc to FL 100 and then doing your ping-pong routine?
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As a former competition shooter (.45ACP), I do have some insight into handguns
The FFDO's jurisdiction extends aft to the cockpit door only. He only draws his weapon if someone has penetrated the hardened cockpit door, and he believes that the lives of his passengers are in danger.
If an FFDO draws his weapon you are already having an incredibly bad day - the worst day of your life, and maybe the end of your life. Why, if you are familiar with weapons, would you not want one in the hands of your flight crew at that point? What are you afeared of? Stray bullets?
May I suggest that stray bullets will not be your biggest problem at that precise moment.
(And by the way, if you fly in the states, you already have guns on board: FBI, local police, POSTAL inspectors, AGRICULTURAL inspectors, Treasury... I used to fly into a city in Georgia near the FBI "Club Fed," and it was not uncommon for a majority of the passengers to be armed....)
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I-Ford
I am sure that I have been on an aircraft with guns around me, but that was not the point I was making, as I was responding specifically to the point raised by the previous poster about the potential impact on ticket sales.
Huck
Please read my post, I acknowledged other opinions and didn't criticise them.
Neither will I justify my own.
I am sure that I have been on an aircraft with guns around me, but that was not the point I was making, as I was responding specifically to the point raised by the previous poster about the potential impact on ticket sales.
Huck
Please read my post, I acknowledged other opinions and didn't criticise them.
Neither will I justify my own.
I think the way round this, and it will probably appeal to the nutters (sorry, I mean US), is to arm every passenger with at least a semi-automatic of some description. Maybe something with a calibre of about a 38 or better. And the Ammo must be armour piercing, we wouldn't want any galley carts being used to hide behind.
People could pick up the weapon of their choice when they present their boarding cards at the gate. You could have shooting ranges air side so people can practice popping one off over a beer while waiting for the flight.
I can just hear the cabin crew now "I'm sorry sir, you not old enough for a beer, but would you like another magazine for your M16?"
Prats!!!
People could pick up the weapon of their choice when they present their boarding cards at the gate. You could have shooting ranges air side so people can practice popping one off over a beer while waiting for the flight.
I can just hear the cabin crew now "I'm sorry sir, you not old enough for a beer, but would you like another magazine for your M16?"
Prats!!!
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Who needs guns? When faced with a homicide/suicide type individual we can just "Pull a Neville" negotiate "Peace in our time"! Worked for
the Brits. Jolly good.
the Brits. Jolly good.
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It makes me smile to think of neg or pos g manouveres at 350 or any rudder at those alts......if we are going to be that silly, why not open the clams and depressurise or have nerve gas in the packs?
I prefer to stick to discussing the approach briefing or ask for an altimeter check rather than worry about the door coming in.......about as much chance as a lottery win methinks......keep the nose up guys...its what we do
I prefer to stick to discussing the approach briefing or ask for an altimeter check rather than worry about the door coming in.......about as much chance as a lottery win methinks......keep the nose up guys...its what we do
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It makes me smile
Quite. I have always reassured nervous SLF, or potential SLF, that airline pilots are trained cowards.
Still, there is certainly something alluring about the rumour that the FFDO training involves a hand-flown, engine out ILS, whilst putting a neat group into a target in the notional flight deck door between 1000 ft and decision height.
Can any one confirm that this rumour is correct?
Regards
S
Still, there is certainly something alluring about the rumour that the FFDO training involves a hand-flown, engine out ILS, whilst putting a neat group into a target in the notional flight deck door between 1000 ft and decision height.
Can any one confirm that this rumour is correct?
Regards
S