Letter from a 49'r
Join Date: Jun 2001
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>>BTW Airbubba, your comment "...tardy PR effort to portray the sacked as prominent local citizens involved in charitable works ..." belittles these men<<
I think my comment accurately belittles the lackluster PR effort, not the men (you do hire women, don't you?). Perhaps you feel the sacking of your colleagues deserves a hiring ban for others while continuing to train and accept upgrades yourselves.
I'll certainly honor the hiring band. I could never pass the tests or afford the cut in pay. However, I agree with others here that if you're not willing to do more yourselves for your fallen comrades, your threats of name calling to outsiders will sound hollow indeed.
Anyway, please prove me wrong and take the bull by the horns!
[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Airbubba ]
I think my comment accurately belittles the lackluster PR effort, not the men (you do hire women, don't you?). Perhaps you feel the sacking of your colleagues deserves a hiring ban for others while continuing to train and accept upgrades yourselves.
I'll certainly honor the hiring band. I could never pass the tests or afford the cut in pay. However, I agree with others here that if you're not willing to do more yourselves for your fallen comrades, your threats of name calling to outsiders will sound hollow indeed.
Anyway, please prove me wrong and take the bull by the horns!
[ 18 August 2001: Message edited by: Airbubba ]
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If cost cutting is truly a major concern at cx, it would seem that cutting out the fat at the middle and upper management level would be a far better strategy than reducing the number of pilots. If you go back and read the initial dispute posting, you will recall that the rostering agreement is the one thing that the AOA has been trying to negotiate unsuccessfully for years. Flights are being cancelled because there is not enough crew. Sick out, or just plain fatigue? Crew is being called to operate "as a favour", without even a day off between ULH. Stress is a proven major factor in all illness.
Wet leasing aircraft is hugely expensive. Perhaps it would make sense to go back to the negotiating table before expenses mount further.
Upper management salaries are reported to be in the neighborhood of $7 million HK dollars. Who's on the gravy train??????
For those who want, visit the the AOA website. Lots of good information.
411A - won't you miss the view of the fountain in SE Aisa?
Wet leasing aircraft is hugely expensive. Perhaps it would make sense to go back to the negotiating table before expenses mount further.
Upper management salaries are reported to be in the neighborhood of $7 million HK dollars. Who's on the gravy train??????
For those who want, visit the the AOA website. Lots of good information.
411A - won't you miss the view of the fountain in SE Aisa?
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Govner. First of all let me apologise for my late reply, but some of us have to work, I am sure you too will work for/ run an airline one day, and understand! NOT!!!!
Now for the reply to my post....
No I dont have CX management's side on this....Apparently I went, "Out on a limb", (as you put it) to say that CX management were in breech of contract. Oh you are refering to my line of "a contract works both ways"? Well it does unless you are guilty of gross misconduct then a notice period, or renumeration for that, must be given. If CX had 52 guys working for them who were guilty of gross misconduct, then they need to look at their training and standards departments! They wre obviously not running a very safe operation!.......... This I find hard to believe. Therefore it would suggest that the dismissals are unfair. Now I am no more a lawyer thanThe Govneris an airline boss, but this would seem to be the case!
As for my Ex pat experiance.....
I have none, but I fail to see what difference that makes?? As you suggesting that if I was an ex pat that I would expectto be treated like this??? I dont think so some how! So please enlighten me with that one!
Anyway Gov...I thought you would be too busy masterminding your empire, than to worry about 52 fellow pilots in the Far East?? You really shoud have told people that your airline was a Flight Sim 2000 "Fantasy" airline! I think a few got confused and thought it was for real!
Eff Oh.
PS Sorry for changing the subject on this one. I will now not reply to any personally aimed posts on this topic.
Now for the reply to my post....
No I dont have CX management's side on this....Apparently I went, "Out on a limb", (as you put it) to say that CX management were in breech of contract. Oh you are refering to my line of "a contract works both ways"? Well it does unless you are guilty of gross misconduct then a notice period, or renumeration for that, must be given. If CX had 52 guys working for them who were guilty of gross misconduct, then they need to look at their training and standards departments! They wre obviously not running a very safe operation!.......... This I find hard to believe. Therefore it would suggest that the dismissals are unfair. Now I am no more a lawyer thanThe Govneris an airline boss, but this would seem to be the case!
As for my Ex pat experiance.....
I have none, but I fail to see what difference that makes?? As you suggesting that if I was an ex pat that I would expectto be treated like this???
I dont think so some how! So please enlighten me with that one! Anyway Gov...I thought you would be too busy masterminding your empire, than to worry about 52 fellow pilots in the Far East?? You really shoud have told people that your airline was a Flight Sim 2000 "Fantasy" airline! I think a few got confused and thought it was for real!
Eff Oh.
PS Sorry for changing the subject on this one. I will now not reply to any personally aimed posts on this topic.
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Everyone here is a little bit right...but that's not going to solve the problem. When some are describing the 49'ers as the lunatics now running the asylum and the management as recalcitrant.
Everyone has to step back and let in someone from the outside to mediate bnefore we end up with a very large row of body bags and more rich divorce lawyers.
I repeat in this forum that there is goodwill...everyone wants to make CX the best airline in the world to work for.
It's not about the money..it's about everyone getting a life.
Let's sit down and talk.
Everyone has to step back and let in someone from the outside to mediate bnefore we end up with a very large row of body bags and more rich divorce lawyers.
I repeat in this forum that there is goodwill...everyone wants to make CX the best airline in the world to work for.
It's not about the money..it's about everyone getting a life.
Let's sit down and talk.
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Hi Guv.
Totally of subject; through this topic I've noticed you have 2471 posts since Jul 99. That would be 26 month up to date. That would make 95 posts per month on average. In 20 business days per month that would be 5 posts per day on average, meaning: 1 post every 1.5h1 post every 1.5h.
You are what? An Airline Chief???
Must be a pretty relaxing, not to say boring job.
P.S. Before you ask the figures were rounded mathematically, indeed we are looking at 4.75 posts per day.
CX crew remember, "It's not size of the dog on a fight, but size of the fight within the dog!" never give up.
Totally of subject; through this topic I've noticed you have 2471 posts since Jul 99. That would be 26 month up to date. That would make 95 posts per month on average. In 20 business days per month that would be 5 posts per day on average, meaning: 1 post every 1.5h1 post every 1.5h.
You are what? An Airline Chief???
Must be a pretty relaxing, not to say boring job.
P.S. Before you ask the figures were rounded mathematically, indeed we are looking at 4.75 posts per day.
CX crew remember, "It's not size of the dog on a fight, but size of the fight within the dog!" never give up.
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Hey Guvnor. 5 minutes to post?
Not spending much time reading the posts made by others then, are you.
Which just goes to confirm what we all suspected anyhow.
That you never bleedin' think before opening your big gob!
Not spending much time reading the posts made by others then, are you.
Which just goes to confirm what we all suspected anyhow.
That you never bleedin' think before opening your big gob!
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I have to say CX has acted appallingly in this case; it really is not acceptable, if the company is to attract the very best pilots, to treat ANY employee in this way. I remember a few years back, while Peter Sutch was chairman, they published in their annual report a list of commitments, including making CX one of the best places to work, etc. etc; what has become of this? Surely they still realise that staff input is required to main the airline's standards. CX has the potential to be one of the best, if not the best airlines in the world and also one of the most successful. The ball is now firmly in the airline's court and I sincerely hope the union makes it clear to them that this will not and cannot stand.
Is there any arbitration system in HK? Can't the HKAOA start the ball rolling by offering a concession, such a 5-10 year no-strike clause, in exchange for the reinstatement of the crews and a decent roster system (for example)?
Finally, what are the nationalities of those involved? Presumably, there are nationals of CX destination countries - New Zealanders, Aussies, Canadians, British etc; would it be worth considering some kind of legal or even government action in the "home countries"; certainly, if an Irish pilot were treated in this way, I would expect the Irish government to bring the matter to the attention of the Chinese embassy; if Ireland were an online destination, I'd expect some threat to withdraw Cathay's route authority if this did not work. A little drastic perhaps, but something worth considering down the line . . .
Is there any arbitration system in HK? Can't the HKAOA start the ball rolling by offering a concession, such a 5-10 year no-strike clause, in exchange for the reinstatement of the crews and a decent roster system (for example)?
Finally, what are the nationalities of those involved? Presumably, there are nationals of CX destination countries - New Zealanders, Aussies, Canadians, British etc; would it be worth considering some kind of legal or even government action in the "home countries"; certainly, if an Irish pilot were treated in this way, I would expect the Irish government to bring the matter to the attention of the Chinese embassy; if Ireland were an online destination, I'd expect some threat to withdraw Cathay's route authority if this did not work. A little drastic perhaps, but something worth considering down the line . . .
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Maxalt - I speed read. It took me all of 1.5 seconds to read your sh*te, sorry, post!
Anyway, isn't this thread supposed to be about CX??
On that subject, I hear that they are leasing in 23 - count them, 23 - aircraft from mainly Chinese airlines in case Wednesday's vote is for an all out strike. Aircraft include:
China Eastern A300
China Nothern MD90, A300
Air China 772, 744
China Northwest A300
China Southern 772
China Southwest 757, A343
[ 20 August 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]
Anyway, isn't this thread supposed to be about CX??
On that subject, I hear that they are leasing in 23 - count them, 23 - aircraft from mainly Chinese airlines in case Wednesday's vote is for an all out strike. Aircraft include:
China Eastern A300
China Nothern MD90, A300
Air China 772, 744
China Northwest A300
China Southern 772
China Southwest 757, A343
[ 20 August 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]
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These airlines, that these aircraft will be leased from, have among the lowest safety ratings of all airlines. These airplanes will come with these unsafe pilots too. By the way, there were many compaints about the pilots smoking in the cockpit before pushback, life jackets rivetted to the bottom of the seats, and somebody drinking alcohol in the cockpit. Why would any passenger who cares about his life fly on these chartered aircraft? Have a nice flight. 
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It seems to me - and I don't know if you agree with this, Busdriver25et al but this really serves to reinforce the point that it's no longer the gweilos that are in charge at CX but rather the mandarins in Beijing. From a strategic viewpoint, I think this must be remembered by the AOA.
Either that, or the Chinese economy is in the absolute pits so that there are loads of aircraft just standing around!
Either that, or the Chinese economy is in the absolute pits so that there are loads of aircraft just standing around!
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Exactly. Hong Kong is now part of the Mainland. Indirectly, Beijing is pulling the strings at CX. Sooner or later CX will be indistinguishable from the rest of the Mainland carriers; and there will be no shortage of ready, willing and able Chinese Air Force pilots to fly for food.
Curiously, no expats are queued up at Guangzhou-Baiyun to fly China Southern's 777s.
Curiously, no expats are queued up at Guangzhou-Baiyun to fly China Southern's 777s.
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It's not that Beijing is running the show now, Cathay Pacific will only go for the cheapest option. Chinese airplanes can be wet leased the cheapest, so that's where we get them. Airplanes can be painted cheaper in China, so that's where they get painted, but that's different story.
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: busdriver25 ]
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I think you'll find that The Guvnor is in CX management, if you look a little harder.
I would have thought that if you want to lure a top pilot to move to the third world, and to the most expensive city in the world, you would need to pay him more than anyone else.
I would have thought that if you want to lure a top pilot to move to the third world, and to the most expensive city in the world, you would need to pay him more than anyone else.
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Wake up folks...no cx management here...just normal folks who have "been there...done that" ALL THE BEST IN THE HARBOUR..... welcome to the hard reality of the expat contract pilot....gone are the days of the "Delta airlines" contract pilots...hello to to the "new order"..a reality those of us in the rest of the world have accepted...sad but true..."progress"
