Continental 757 Lands on Taxiway at EWR
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A blessing no one was hurt.
I have no idea what was going on in that flightdeck, so I'll try my best not to pass judgement.
I do find it hard to believe that BOTH flightcrew member missed this one. There is a site on the net that shows the flightpaths onf airplanes on approach into EWR. It looks like the guys actually sidestepped over the Turnpike.
Weird.
I have no idea what was going on in that flightdeck, so I'll try my best not to pass judgement.
I do find it hard to believe that BOTH flightcrew member missed this one. There is a site on the net that shows the flightpaths onf airplanes on approach into EWR. It looks like the guys actually sidestepped over the Turnpike.
Weird.
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I'm happy that the pilots involved in this incident have been grounded and I seriously hope that their licenses will be revoked. No excuse for not paying attention and ignorance.
Pilots' Pal
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Worldpilot,
A rather uncharitable view. As you will no doubt have learned in CRM classes, we all make mistakes and the best we can do is mitigate - or reduce - the negative impact of human behaviour. Seems that we are blaming the pilots without having all the facts. Sure enough, they may be grounded but only while the circumstances are investigated.
A rather uncharitable view. As you will no doubt have learned in CRM classes, we all make mistakes and the best we can do is mitigate - or reduce - the negative impact of human behaviour. Seems that we are blaming the pilots without having all the facts. Sure enough, they may be grounded but only while the circumstances are investigated.
Buttonpusher
It seems we have a judge, jury and executioner .....BUS 429, I seriously doubt this person even knows what CRM is unless it came along with his conversion course on the Cessna 150/172.
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The ATPL's daily game:
- Starts with the check-in
- The aim is: To score as few as possible of the 1'001 possible mistakes per flight leg during the day. Of those possible mistakes, check, double check and even triple check those which you sure don't wanna score on (the bad ones)
- Repeat the game on every leg of the day (adding fatigue and routine as a wild card)
- Ends after the check-out
Then go home and ponder how close or how far you did from that ever sooo illusive perfect flight
The ATPL's career:
- To repeat the ATPL's daily game on a daily basis, year after year until retirement or the big mistake catches up with you... good luck to all of us
FIRESYSOK & Bus 429, thanks!
wileydog3, no sir, only seen the place once, as a PAX
And to all the crawlers, please refrain to judge people while strolling on their lawn
- Starts with the check-in
- The aim is: To score as few as possible of the 1'001 possible mistakes per flight leg during the day. Of those possible mistakes, check, double check and even triple check those which you sure don't wanna score on (the bad ones)
- Repeat the game on every leg of the day (adding fatigue and routine as a wild card)
- Ends after the check-out
Then go home and ponder how close or how far you did from that ever sooo illusive perfect flight
The ATPL's career:
- To repeat the ATPL's daily game on a daily basis, year after year until retirement or the big mistake catches up with you... good luck to all of us
FIRESYSOK & Bus 429, thanks!
wileydog3, no sir, only seen the place once, as a PAX
And to all the crawlers, please refrain to judge people while strolling on their lawn
worldpilot:
Now that is a bit of a pretentious name for someone who is only rated on the Cessna 150/172.
However, if you have actually flown one of them around the world then we might listen to you!
Now that is a bit of a pretentious name for someone who is only rated on the Cessna 150/172.
However, if you have actually flown one of them around the world then we might listen to you!
Last edited by JW411; 1st Nov 2006 at 16:25.
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..God bless these guys who landed on the taxiway,good luck chaps you might feel very very lonely,but the sun will come back don't worry! 
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Ok since there's a lot of flaming going back and forth here I think we need to remember some things:
1. Despite the danger, thankfully nobody was injured
2. A mistake was made somewhere - yes we all make mistakes but it may be that someone has to take the rap for this in whatever form
3. Given that this mistake has occurred (twice including an account given here), something may need to be done to decrease the likelihood of it happening again - be it for ATC or crew.
/two pennies' worth
1. Despite the danger, thankfully nobody was injured
2. A mistake was made somewhere - yes we all make mistakes but it may be that someone has to take the rap for this in whatever form
3. Given that this mistake has occurred (twice including an account given here), something may need to be done to decrease the likelihood of it happening again - be it for ATC or crew.
/two pennies' worth
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Well, Worldpilot, I have no desire to break you in mind and body with the sort of sarcastic reply that many will feel that you deserve, but perhaps I could pass on a little gentle advice:
In aviation there are a set of obvious errors that sit on the shoulders of every pilot waiting to bite him hard. They include landing at the wrong airport, taking off on the wrong runway, closing down the wrong engine, landing with the gear not lowered, clipping the undershoot, running off the end of the runway, landing on the wrong runway etc etc etc.
If you are very very lucky you may survive a lifetime of professional flying without ever falling in to one of those traps. That would then be an appropriate time to pontificate in the manner that you have.
In reality most of would remember the time that one did fall in to one of the traps or would have done without the help of the other pilot, flight engineer, air traffic controller etc etc etc.
A gentle sigh and expression of sympathy for someone who had would then be the normal reaction.
In aviation there are a set of obvious errors that sit on the shoulders of every pilot waiting to bite him hard. They include landing at the wrong airport, taking off on the wrong runway, closing down the wrong engine, landing with the gear not lowered, clipping the undershoot, running off the end of the runway, landing on the wrong runway etc etc etc.
If you are very very lucky you may survive a lifetime of professional flying without ever falling in to one of those traps. That would then be an appropriate time to pontificate in the manner that you have.
In reality most of would remember the time that one did fall in to one of the traps or would have done without the help of the other pilot, flight engineer, air traffic controller etc etc etc.
A gentle sigh and expression of sympathy for someone who had would then be the normal reaction.
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Been There, Done That
I'm retired now, but early in my career I was an F/E on a B-727 that landed on a taxiway. How's that done? Very easily.
To make a long story short what was supposed to be a visual approach was switched at the last moment to a VOR approach, because we were passing through a squall line. When we broke out we were at minimums, with the "runway" right on the nose; the real runway was not even within peripheral vision. The winds were very strong and gusting (very different from what was being reported) and the the C/P who was flying had his hands full just staying on centerline and keeping from falling out of the sky. The taxiway had recently been repaved and was as wide as most runways. C/P did a very good job of "greasing it on" under extreme wx conditions. It was only when we saw that the high-speed taxiway was at 135 degrees instead of 45 degrees that we realized what we had done. Remember the MD-80 that crashed in Little Rock about June '99? If I remember correctly they encountered windshear right about touchdown, and a headwind of 50 kts switched to a quartering tailwind of about 80 kts, leading to disaster. It's very easy to get so wrapped up in fighting the weather on approach that you miss some "small" item, especially in poor visibility. We had a clear view of the landing roll-out area, so there was no danger. It's very easy to get "sucked in", even for experienced crews. So, please don't be too quick to judge.
To make a long story short what was supposed to be a visual approach was switched at the last moment to a VOR approach, because we were passing through a squall line. When we broke out we were at minimums, with the "runway" right on the nose; the real runway was not even within peripheral vision. The winds were very strong and gusting (very different from what was being reported) and the the C/P who was flying had his hands full just staying on centerline and keeping from falling out of the sky. The taxiway had recently been repaved and was as wide as most runways. C/P did a very good job of "greasing it on" under extreme wx conditions. It was only when we saw that the high-speed taxiway was at 135 degrees instead of 45 degrees that we realized what we had done. Remember the MD-80 that crashed in Little Rock about June '99? If I remember correctly they encountered windshear right about touchdown, and a headwind of 50 kts switched to a quartering tailwind of about 80 kts, leading to disaster. It's very easy to get so wrapped up in fighting the weather on approach that you miss some "small" item, especially in poor visibility. We had a clear view of the landing roll-out area, so there was no danger. It's very easy to get "sucked in", even for experienced crews. So, please don't be too quick to judge.
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one point of interest and possible source of confusion is this...all PAPI's/VASI at newark airport are on the pilot's left while approaching the runway, EXCEPT for runway 29...that runway has the PAPI on the RIGHT.
which would mean that someone expecting the runway to be to the right of the PAPI would land on the taxiway UNLESS they were well briefed on the 29 PAPI position.
while there are other lights to help a pilot find a runway, this papi business should be considered...think about it.
which would mean that someone expecting the runway to be to the right of the PAPI would land on the taxiway UNLESS they were well briefed on the 29 PAPI position.
while there are other lights to help a pilot find a runway, this papi business should be considered...think about it.
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There's an NTSB 'chase plane' animation of the Little Rock accident at;
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2000/aa14..._boardmtng.htm
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2000/aa14..._boardmtng.htm
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Worldpilot,
A rather uncharitable view. As you will no doubt have learned in CRM classes, we all make mistakes and the best we can do is mitigate - or reduce - the negative impact of human behaviour. Seems that we are blaming the pilots without having all the facts. Sure enough, they may be grounded but only while the circumstances are investigated.
A rather uncharitable view. As you will no doubt have learned in CRM classes, we all make mistakes and the best we can do is mitigate - or reduce - the negative impact of human behaviour. Seems that we are blaming the pilots without having all the facts. Sure enough, they may be grounded but only while the circumstances are investigated.
I have to say I do have some sympathy for the perpetrators; I doubt that they did this deliberately.
I can only surmise that the picture out the front window looked OK... It's been a while since I used 29 at EWR, so I can't remember what the lighting looked like. It's possible that the runway was (un)lit in a similar way to the taxiway. Remember this is a visual approach - no LOC or VOR radial, etc.
I have noticed that many airports have added potentially confusing lighting details to some runways over recent years, whilst removing those that are fairly unique. It is not unusual to line up on a runway(?) that has:
a) No white CL lighting.
b) Green CL in places for turnoffs.
c) Red stop bars (LAHSO).
Contrast that with a taxiway(?) that has:
a) Areas of missing CL lighting.
b) Green CL for lead-in to entry/exit points.
c) Red stop bars (taxi limit).
At sunset you're especially vulnerable landing to the west, at any airport.
I can only surmise that the picture out the front window looked OK... It's been a while since I used 29 at EWR, so I can't remember what the lighting looked like. It's possible that the runway was (un)lit in a similar way to the taxiway. Remember this is a visual approach - no LOC or VOR radial, etc.
I have noticed that many airports have added potentially confusing lighting details to some runways over recent years, whilst removing those that are fairly unique. It is not unusual to line up on a runway(?) that has:
a) No white CL lighting.
b) Green CL in places for turnoffs.
c) Red stop bars (LAHSO).
Contrast that with a taxiway(?) that has:
a) Areas of missing CL lighting.
b) Green CL for lead-in to entry/exit points.
c) Red stop bars (taxi limit).
At sunset you're especially vulnerable landing to the west, at any airport.
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FLCH. My rating on Cessna 150/172 does not reflect my aviation knowledge. You might be a faculty 
, but I'm not. I pretty much have a profound understanding of aviation and the workload involved in the cockpit. Anyway, I've withdrawn my statement.
Buttonpusher
OK Worldpilot, the Captain of that flight is a good friend of mine, and severely dislike people that shoot first and ask questions later. Please think before posting absolute statements...lest you be jumped by others...