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Thomson Full Evac @ STN

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Thomson Full Evac @ STN

Old 24th Oct 2006, 17:19
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Blue up

Dont think TOM use that engine ?
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Old 24th Oct 2006, 18:08
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Yes!

When I last flew Alpha Oscar it had TWO of them.
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Old 24th Oct 2006, 20:24
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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RB211

Can guarantee all Tfly (ex BY) B757-204 aircraft are fitted with RB211-535E4 engines.......

The B767-204ER and B767-304ER are fitted with GE CF6 A2 or C2 engines however......
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Old 24th Oct 2006, 20:37
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Alpha Oscar did engine runs all day at Stansted today.
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Old 24th Oct 2006, 20:47
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bet the bugger behaved all day too...
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Old 24th Oct 2006, 20:48
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Good job by all concerned, by the looks of it. As previous posters say, monday-morning quarterbacking is all very well, at least all involved are here to discuss it all over a beer. Well done.
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 00:15
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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What concerns me is that they took so long to divert after the fumes being reported after takeoff from NCL.

Why did the Crews not don the O2 Masks immediately as per the QRH/Emergency Check list and Government guidelines?

Merv.
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 03:39
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Mr. Clown,

Do you know how long after takeoff the smoke was reported to the cockpit crew? 1min, 2mins, 20 mins? There is mention of the smoke being reported after TOC which would probably put the aircraft nearer to STN than NCL at the time.


Great judge you are.
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 04:08
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Good god!!

Are there any professionals on here......
Again well done to the crew involved...apologies you have to go under the usual ridiculous speculation!!
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 06:30
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mervyn's Clowns View Post
What concerns me is that they took so long to divert after the fumes being reported after takeoff from NCL.

Why did the Crews not don the O2 Masks immediately as per the QRH/Emergency Check list and Government guidelines?

Merv.
There's always one. . .
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 12:04
  #31 (permalink)  
A4

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Originally Posted by Mervyn's Clowns View Post
What concerns me is that they took so long to divert after the fumes being reported after takeoff from NCL.
Why did the Crews not don the O2 Masks immediately as per the QRH/Emergency Check list and Government guidelines?
Merv.
What makes you think they took so long? If my memory serves me correctly, a departure from NCL to LCA would track down the east coast of the UK (due danger areas in the North Sea) before turning left across the North Sea around about The Wash. The haze was noticed "shortly after TOC" (Note: Top Of Climb NOT takeoff - i.e. about 30 mins after Takeoff) which would probably be about the same point as the left turn. To STN from there is about 100 odd miles so STN seems to be the perfect diversion airfield - straight in! EMA probably also a good choice.
Perhaps the initial diversion was precautionary but the haze became more significant in the latter part of the descent, by which time they were well on the way to STN.

It's easy to judge after the event but you weren't there - so don't

No one was injured, the aircraft was recovered safely - job well done in my book.

A4
P.S. Which Government (HA!) guidelines are you talking about ?
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 17:23
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Originally Posted by Bluebaron
"From the horses mouth:

"Smoke (blue haze) noticed shortly after TOC from NCL by cabin crew. Captain informed and he personally had a look. Retuned to flight deck and started to consider options (get wx poss airports etc). Then told by cabin crew smoke was getting worse and pax upset.

Took decision to divert to STN. During descent smoke started to enter flight deck and O2 donned. After landing and considering a long taxi in with pax increasingly upset and smoke getting worse captain decided to evac".

It was assumed to be engine Oil burning and entering ducting."

This does appear to be Non Standard. As far as I'm aware the Immediate actions on most Commercial aircraft these days is to don the O2 Masks and establish communications. I can post the relevant emergency check list/QRH if necessary.

I still stand by my original post. As others have also mentioned, I hope that this part of the rumour isn't true, which was my concern.

Merv.
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 17:43
  #33 (permalink)  
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OK - that one can stay! The 'drill' of which you speak is actioned when there is a 'concentration' of smoke/fumes. A 'blue haze' in the cabin could be the food burning. It could be a plastic cover in the oven. It could be many things. It seems to me the drill was 'actioned' when the Captain decided he had a smoke/fumes concentration.
As far as I'm aware the Immediate actions on most Commercial aircraft these days is to don the O2 Masks and establish communications. I can post the relevant emergency check list/QRH if necessary.
- In the 737 QRH the 'mask and goggles' are 'IF required'. I believe the 757 is the same.

On what little information I have on this event I would suggest that the actions were impeccable. I may be wrong, but I am not prepared to judge, unlike you. If this is non-standard' as you put it I'm sure the company will address this.

Please state what your aviation qualifications are which enable you to criticise. Captain-F/O? ATPL? 757 qualified?
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 18:16
  #34 (permalink)  
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Well Done !

But it might have be done even better

if before all the pan panic, Cdr have (I hope he did) done one (at a time) by one engine aircon bleed switched off, to check for any changes

If he had a time to walk in cabine
 
Old 25th Oct 2006, 18:41
  #35 (permalink)  
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Time-line a bit confused, eh, GG?

Walk in cabin BEFORE decision to make diversion to STN.

Who mentioned a PAN? There may well have been one, or a MAYDAY, but I see no mention.

Once the a/c was on the way down for a priority recovery at STN, I suspect that mucking around with packs was low on the list.
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Old 25th Oct 2006, 20:56
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I read the deleted posts earlier on and have to share the same concerns.

On the 146 and I believe the Boeings as well, that the QRH or Emergency Check List as it is called on the 146, has had major changes quite recently ( in the last couple of years anyway.)
This was to stop exactly what you have mentioned, mucking around with the systems when you should be getting the a/c on the deck ASAP.

The 146 Check List was very long winded, shutting down packs, electrics, etc.
Now it is basically, Get on Oxy, Establish Communications and Divert to Nearest Suitable Airport.
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Old 26th Oct 2006, 07:24
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Body Contamination by fumes or smoke

Originally Posted by Mervyn's Clowns View Post
This does appear to be Non Standard. As far as I'm aware the Immediate actions on most Commercial aircraft these days is to don the O2 Masks and establish communications. I can post the relevant emergency check list/QRH if necessary.

I still stand by my original post. As others have also mentioned, I hope that this part of the rumour isn't true, which was my concern.

Merv.
The most important danger of the fumes/smoke in a confined space is the toxicity. The best way to protect your body breathing system is to stay out of the fumes/smoke or to have a protection (O2). The contamination done by the toxicity can incrase very quickly.
The inspection done by the capt in the cabine was certainly not a bad idea but the consequences could be worth as you expect before you leave the clean area(cockpit).
Opening the door of the cockpit especially if smoke in cabin is not particullary well located is still complicated to evaluate.
The most important aspect is to be prepared to cope with a rapid degradation of the situation.
There is no fumes/smoke without a combustion effect
The job done by the TOM's crew was well done but the "Jogging in cabin" was probably not really adequate.
Wich information was given by the cabin crew to the cockpit during this flight ?(colour/density/location/evolution)
How to evaluate the fumes/smoke and to communicate with the ckpt is not simple.
Good job TOm's Crew but protect your Nose first the next time.
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Old 26th Oct 2006, 07:30
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Merv, it is worth remembering that he didn't get fumes in the cockpit until he started the descent for diversion. Sounds like they did a good job to me, aircraft on the ground sharpish, everyone ok. What more do you want?
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Old 26th Oct 2006, 08:01
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Most checklists call for O2 masks if required. In this case the crew donned the masks when required. One thing for sure, as soon as the masks come on, the communication on the FD becomes alot harder, so I think good job.
As for the evacuation, with no obvious signs of fire from ATC, cabin crew, would a precautionary disembarkation have been a better option. Our procedures enable it to be done with or without steps/air bridge and minimises any injuries which may come about from an immediate evacuation and all the panic associated with that.
Either way, I think a good job to the entire crew, including the CC who first brought it to the attention of the FD.
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Old 26th Oct 2006, 13:24
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Just saw G-BYAO take-off and depart from Stansted around 2 hours ago. Was good to hear the tower wish them "good luck" as they were cleared to depart!
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