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Mid-air collision over Brasil

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Old 27th Sep 2009, 19:57
  #1541 (permalink)  
 
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Which explains the delivery from Sharkey. I suspect people being unwilling to listen has more to do with him being a terrble Gringo than anything else. There is a massive problem, if more people over there are upset at the truth being told by Sharkey in a direct, no holds barred approach as opposed than what is posted above.
I disagree, a complete lack of sensitivity in the way he was communicating his ideas was evident from the very beginning. He does have good points to make, but as a journalist he should surely be aware of the need to understand the target audience? As it is, he practically guaranteed that no-one here was prepared to listen to his "direct, no holds barred approach". He could have expressed himself better, and had his ideas accepted on merit.

Pride overcomes lives once again and I have no time for aviation safety once again compromised by stupidity.
That seems to be a fairly widespread phenomenon.

TTFN
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Old 27th Sep 2009, 20:33
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Then the Brazilians have condemned themselves to the 9 points you listed. While in the U.S., harsh words about their own system after recent accidents will lead to changes and hopefully a safer system.

Safety is an attitude.
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Old 27th Sep 2009, 21:31
  #1543 (permalink)  
 
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I disagree, a complete lack of sensitivity in the way he was communicating his ideas was evident from the very beginning. He does have good points to make, but as a journalist he should surely be aware of the need to understand the target audience? As it is, he practically guaranteed that no-one here was prepared to listen to his "direct, no holds barred approach". He could have expressed himself better, and had his ideas accepted on merit.
I have to disagree with alemaobaiano on this.

While I am not an aviation expert, I am an expert on the Brazilian press, and they jump rapidly to a conclusion as to who are the heroes and villians, and it seems no amount of evidence, expressed in any terms whatsover, will cause them to listen to sense.

I posted above a column by senator Demosthenes Torres, published two days before the Legacy pilots left Brazil, in which he acknowledged the correctness of Joe's blog posts.

The problems was not the tone, but the message: blaming the American pilots for the tragedy provided convenient scapegoats, appealed to anti-Americanism, and allowed people not to bother their heads with troublesome details such as poorly designed software. Anyone who insisted on pointing out facts became rapidly unpopular.

The third anniversary of the tragedy is coming up Tuesday, and some ordinarily serious newspapers have published nonsense put out by a group that calls itself the "Association of Friends and Relatives of the Victims of Flight 1907". They claim to represent the families of 154 victims; in fact they represent the families of somewhere between a tenth and a fifth of that number.

The Brazilian press learned that, the last time this lynch mob howled for blood, but that was close to a year ago, and press memories are short, and the unwarned reporter always sides with whoever calls themself a victim.

The groups "facts" are wildly inaccurate; they have an "accident expert" with whom I spoke and who astonished me by saying that he'd been hired not by the lawyers, but by the group's press agent.

They lost their loved ones, and I sympathize with that, but they also lost their love of truth, if they ever had it. And they are dangerous to others.

Those most interested in the investigation of the Gol 1907 accident are not the relatives of the victims. Rather, it is those who will live or die depending on whether the causes of this accident are found and fixed - or not.

Joe Sharkey spoke the truth, early and often, and the Association has never issued a press release without a glaring error or a bald-faced lie.

Why is Joe criticized, and this Association blindly believed? It is neither the quality of their information, nor the tone in which they communicate. It's that what Joe says isn't what the press wants to hear - and the Association provides the easy-to-swallow lies that lazy reporters eat up.
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Old 28th Sep 2009, 09:59
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Richard

I think this needs to be separated into two audiences, if you will.

There are aviation professionals who understand exactly what Joe Sharkey has been saying, and agree with him. They would very much like to correct the multiple failings in aviation infrastructure here and know what needs to be done. However, they face a serious problem.

The public at large, fed by the sensationalist press and encouraged by self-serving politicians (I wouldn't put Demosthenes Torres in that group, BTW) who don't want to know about the problems. As you say, in the immediate aftermath the press blamed the American pilots, without the slightest shred of evidence. The official report received virtually no coverage in the general press, and so the public still believes that original impression. The politicians like to keep that going, as uncovering problems would reflect badly on their record in office.

I'm sure you saw the recent report on the promised changes at Congonhas following the TAM crash. Despite all of the wonderful promises, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING has been done.

The point I'm trying to make is that if Joe Sharkey had put his ideas in a different way they would have had a wider acceptance and probably have contributed to an improvement if flight safety in Brazil.

TTFN
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Old 28th Sep 2009, 15:12
  #1545 (permalink)  
 
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I find even the concept (let alone the reality) of Brazillians calling anyone else (Gringo or otherwise) "loud-mouthed and opinionated" quite laughable.
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Old 28th Sep 2009, 16:09
  #1546 (permalink)  
 
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There are no shortage of self-serving politicians in plenty of other countries, including ones with excellent aviation safety records. As well as sensationalist press.

If the way Mr. Sharkey comes across in a blog or newspaper article prevents a country from improving its safety record or as you say "Despite all of the wonderful promises, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING has been done.", I think you are looking at the wrong location for blame.

Change will only come from within, when the people demand it. If they don't particularly care, then the status quo will continue....for aviation safety and so much else.
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 02:38
  #1547 (permalink)  
 
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Have to agree with Alemaobaiano regarding Joe Sharkey's contribution. His commentary from the coalface was very informative, moreso than any other source could have been, but in reflecting only the views of the sole survivors of that accident, he contributed substantially to the early polarization.

Mr Sharkey's a journalist and he had an incomparable scoop on his hands. A very difficult situation and, in hindsight, suggesting he might have been more diplomatic, or reserved in judgment, sounds naive. But I wish he had been so and that he had responded less energetically or, better, not at all, to what the Brazilian media were spinning out of silly, ass-covering statements by the then minister of defence and others.

As for the "defamation of national honour" suit brought against him, ah well; the imagination of ambulance-chasing lawers knows no limits, nor, for that matter, national boundaries.
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 09:49
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I think you are looking at the wrong location for blame.
punkalouver, I know exactly where the blame lies, and it isn't with Joe Sharkey. I just believe that this was a missed opportunity.

Change will only come from within, when the people demand it. If they don't particularly care, then the status quo will continue....for aviation safety and so much else.
Brazil in a nutshell.



TTFN
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 12:43
  #1549 (permalink)  
 
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Attitude

The other day I heard a remark from some Director of ANAC when asked about the latest survey on world safety records, which ranks Brazil at a "scary" position, in comparison with other countries.

He said something like this: If those two accidents (Gol and Tam) didn't have happened, Brazil's safety record would be similar to the U.S.

With this stupid attitude, I don't believe we will see any changes...

Flying over Brazil ?
Check your TCAS...

Good luck to us all (pilots and passengers).

Rob
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 19:48
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Joe Sharkey has posted his comments on this latest event

Joe Sharkey today posted comments on the law suit and also authored a column in Editor & Publisher in which he summarizes the events and his blogged comments. He has a link to the actual wording of the papers he was served. They are both ridiculous and almost hilarious.

{Link to Sharkey blog appears to be broken. As pointed out below, Google: Joe Sharkey + High Anxiety}

[Edited in attempting to to fix broken links]

Last edited by kappa; 29th Sep 2009 at 22:37.
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 20:24
  #1551 (permalink)  
 
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publicity

Joe Sharkey today posted comments on the law suit and also authored a column in Editor & Publisher in which he summarizes the events and his blogged comments. He has a link to the actual wording of the papers he was served. They are both ridiculous and almost hilarious.
She is spending her own money to promote a guy that otherwise would be just another one among so many irrelevant journalists.

I find even the concept (let alone the reality) of Brazillians calling anyone else (Gringo or otherwise) "loud-mouthed and opinionated" quite laughable.
My opinion about some americans is reciprocal.
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 20:37
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Kappa,

The link you've included doesn't work - lots of asterisks - but if one googles joesharkeyat.************* one gets there.

The first thing one sees is a photo of the tail empennage of an aircraft, with the caption "Wreckage of Gol Flight 1907 in the Amazon, found several days after the collision".

However, the wreckage is - I'm pretty sure - that of a King Air which crashed on landing at Trancoso in northeast Brazil some months ago.
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Old 29th Sep 2009, 22:36
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Broadreach, in going back to the JS blog in my attempts to repair the link, I note that he has removed the original picture.
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Old 20th Jan 2010, 02:00
  #1554 (permalink)  
 
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From Aviation International News today

Legacy 600 Midair Pilots Still Entangled in Legal Jungle

American charter firm ExcelAire and pilots Joe Lepore and Jan Paul Paladino remain entangled in Brazilian legal battles more than three years after the midair on Sept. 29, 2006 between their Embraer Legacy 600 and a Gol Airlines 737-800 that resulted in the deaths of all 154 aboard the airliner. A Brazilian federal appeals court last week overturned the summary dismissal of negligence charges against the American pilots, while upholding complete dismissal of charges against two controllers and reducing charges against two others. The pilots again face those charges, linked to communications failures, along with other charges that were never dismissed. The controllers, sergeants in the air force-controlled ATC system, are also on trial in the independent military court system. Last month, a Mato Grosso state civil court ordered ExcelAire Services to deposit a 175,000 Real ($98,600) per plaintiff bond in several suits for damages brought by victims’ families. The same court had denied the bond request in similar cases the previous day. Meanwhile, a bill is pending in Brazil’s congress to limit the use of safety investigation information in the courts.
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Old 20th Jan 2010, 02:16
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Justice system in Brazil is an oxymoron. They win and you lose.
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Old 7th May 2010, 11:26
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Some Brazilian congressmen have demanded that the FAA revoke the licenses of the Legacy pilots. The FAA has politely refused to do so.

Aero-News Network: The Aviation and Aerospace World's Daily/Real-Time News and Information Service
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Old 24th May 2010, 18:06
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Collision survivor on Brazil's most-watched TV show

The usual - extracts from twisted translations of black-box dialogs, etc.

23/05/2010 21:53 - Updated 23/05/2010 21:53
Brazilian who traveled on Legacy tells how Boeing accident was

Ex-employee of Embraer left upstate SP and moved to the USA.
To Fantástico, he remembered how the crew reacted to the tragedy with the Boeing.



By G1, with information from Fantástico


Three years and seven months after surviving one of the worst tragedies in the history of Brazilian aviation, Daniel Bachmann decided to break his silence. The ex-employee of Embraer was on the Legacy jet that collided over the Amazon forest with a Gol Boeing that was going from Manaus to Brasilia. The accident, which occurred on September 19, 2006, left 154 dead.

The plane was piloted by Americans Joe Lepore and Jan Paul Paladino. Bachmann was accompanying the clients and an American reporter on the delivery of yet another Embraer business jet. He and the others who were traveling on the aircraft did not see when the Boeing 737 that was coming in the opposite direction hit the left wing of the Legacy 600. “What the devil was that?”, said one of the pilots. The question was preserved on the voice recordings of everything that happened in the cockpit during the trip.

The Embraer ex-employee said that he did not imagine at that moment that the problem had been caused by a collision. They only thought of surviving. "There was the sound of an alarm, the map had fallen on the floor. That was when we looked out the window and saw a piece of wing missing." In the following minutes, from the passenger cabin, Bachmann saw a sudden change of command. It was the first time that Joe Lepore piloted a Legacy. "The co-pilot said: ‘Then I'll take over’".

Jan Paul Paladino prepared for an emergency landing and everyone prepared to die. "The wing was opening, the sheet on the top was coming up, the rivets were coming out and fuel was running over the wing", the Brazilian remembered. The improvised decent at the Serra do Cachimbo air base was wobbly and shortly after the landing the news of the tragedy arrived.
Moving
Bachmann moved from São José dos Campos, in upstate São Paulo, where Embraer's headquarters is, to the small town of Owasso, in the state of Oklahoma, in the coumtryside of the United States. It was in his family's new home that Bachmann received Fantástico for an exclusive interview. Married, three children, he wants to start life over.

In Brazil, he did not feel free to give an interview. He remembered the accident all the time, had cardiac problems and was worried about winding up as a scapegoat, especially after Congressmen said that he had lied to defend the pilots.

“I don't know the specific details of the procedures each pilot does. When I arrived, the airplane was running, ready to take off and I was getting on board along with the clients", he said. Despite this, Bachmann evaluates the communications problems between the Legacy's cockpit and the Brasilia airport tower (sic). “Perhaps, during the communication that they (pilots) had, when they received from Brasilia "maintain", they interpreted it as maintaining the order they received in São José to go to Manaus at 37,000”.

“Maintain”, according to the pilots' interpretation, was to maintain the altitude of 37,000 feet on the leg between Brasilia and Manaus. But "maintain", according to the controller, was to maintain the original flight plan and to change altitude, which would have removed the Legacy from the Boeing's path. The ex-employee reveals that the failures persisted to the last minute. "There was also a communications failure between the controller of the Serra do Cachimbo tower and the pilot. A question of English and of measurement, the length: 2600 feet or 2600 meters of runway, then the pilot had to assume the shorter of the two, in doubt", he said.
Trials
Pilots Joseph Lepore and Jan Paul Paladino were accused for a series of incompetencies and negligences during the flight procedure. In the Brazilian courts, they were even absolved in the trial court and were greeted as heroes in the United States. But the Association of Relatives and Friends of Victims managed to reverse the decision on appeal and further asked for a new technical examination of the airplane's black boxes. And the result led to the opening of a new legal case against the American pilots.

According to expert Roberto Petrarka, the Legacy's black box revealed that they never even turned on a piece of equipment that's fundamental for flying, known as the T-CAS. The T-CAS is an anticollision system and the pilot's sight. At velocities and high velocities, the pilot's vision can't manage to see another plane coming. And the T-CAS does this in 360 degrees, from any position that the airplane is coming, that could signify a risk of collision.

Inside the cabin, one of the positions came to ask if the T-CAS was turned off. “Turned off”, the other confirmed. And the Legacy's black box registers from the aircraft's movement on the ground to moments before the collision.

In April of this year, the information of the new expert exam were sent to the agency which controls American civil aviation, the FAA, with a request that Lepore and Paladino have their pilots' licenses canceled. The body's response was that it would take no measures in relation to the two pilots.

In October of 2009, another two American pilots had their licenses immediately suspended by the same body, because they passed the landing position and continued another 230 kilometers because they were completely distracted.

“The 154 people who died are nobody?”, asked Roseane (sic), relative of one of the victims. Rosane's husband was aboard the Gol Boeing. The couple's daughter, who is now 7 years old, still keeps his cologne and slippers in the corridor. “This wound will only close when those responsible for these deaths pay in the form of the law for this crime they committed.”

Only 23 of the 154 families have still not reached an settlement over the indemnification for the tragedy. If they are convicted, the penalty for Jan Paul Paladino and Joe Lepore is from one to three years of detention.
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 22:59
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Controller given 14-month suspended sentence

This controller and one other continue on trial in Federal court along with Legacy pilots Joe Lepore and Jan Paul Paladino.

For those without a scorecard, Jomarcelo is the one who was at the console when the transponder went off, though not without first showing for seven minutes that the Legacy was at a different altitude than he expected, without him noticing. In his defense, he had flunked the controllers' exam four times, so perhaps the question is not what he did or failed to do, but who the Hell sat him in front of a console?

On the others, another Embraer plane on its maiden flight with an American crew had followed one of João Batista's clearances into a mountain, according to persistent rumor. That the crash took place, and for that reason, is true; whether it was him I still lack proof, though he was on the duty roster that month.

There may be other news on the case in the next week or so.
G1 - Justiça Militar condena controlador de voo pelo acidente da Gol - notícias em Brasil

26/10/2010 17h57 - Updated 26/10/2010 18h06
Military Court condemns air traffic controller in Gol accident

Accident between Gol airliner and private jet killed 154 people in 2006
Sargeant was sentenced to 1 year and 2 months for manslaughter



Débora Santos of G1, in Brasilia



The Military Courts this Tuesday (Oct 26) sentenced to one year and two months for manslaughter (homicide when there is no intent to kill), sergeant Jomarcelo Fernandes dos Santos, a light controller who was on duty controlling air traffic on the day of the Gol 1907 accident, which left 154 dead four years ago. An appeal to the Superior Military Tribunal (STM) is possible.
The accident happened on September 19, 2006, when the Gol aircraft collided in midair with a Legacy jet. The sergeant was sentenced by 4 votes to 1.

Another four controllers - João Batista da Silva, Felipe Santos Reis, Lucivando Tibúrcio de Alencar and Leandro José Santos de Barros – were absolved. They had been indicted by the Military Prosecutors' Office (MPM) for negligence and for not observing military safety rules.
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 07:07
  #1559 (permalink)  
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This will surely improve ATC and safety in Brazil !. Condemning/Sending a few sergeants in jail absolve in the eyes of the public the responsibilities of the top brass who put this system in place.

But in the background a lot is changing fortunately. The ATC system flaws have been corrected, Flight plan processing and display adapted to fit the rest of the world, and procedures tightened.
What has not changed unfortunately is the fact that the Military still run the show, and treat their controllers like low class workers, with the same basic training and lack of motivation.
It might take another wake up call, hopefully without casualties, for them to change that.
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 07:30
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Slightly off-topic

For those who do not know it, I absolutely recommend the documentary "Fuerza aérea SA" which shows the deeply entrenched corruption, negligence and mismanagement in the argentinian air navigation.

Seems to me Brazil wouldn't be too far away from that.

Here is a link to the movie (in spanish, sorry, but I'm sure there are a english translations)

YouTube - Fuerza Aerea SA parte 1
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