Gentlemen ,Remove those turbans
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Gentlemen ,Remove those turbans
NEW DELHI: More than a month after the WTC terror attacks,
the American backlash continues. And once again, their
mistaken target are the turbaned Sikhs.
As US airlines resume flights, more than a dozen turbaned
Sikhs have been stopped from boarding planes. The ultimatum:
either remove your turban or stay off.
the American backlash continues. And once again, their
mistaken target are the turbaned Sikhs.
As US airlines resume flights, more than a dozen turbaned
Sikhs have been stopped from boarding planes. The ultimatum:
either remove your turban or stay off.
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As much as I agree to the continued slaughter of terrorist " training camps " and the Taleban army , I have to say that some Americans have proven themselves to be the most narrow-minded, shallow and extremely naive people on the planet. I,ve even heard on 123.45 American pilots talking about shooting Afghan pax.
Sikhs are men and women of honour , they have been gaining respect around the world for as long as they have been here and now all of a sudden the Americans can't differentiate between Sikhs and Taleban ??
C'mon guys , wake up and take a good look at yourselves and see how low you "folks" are acting.
Sikhs are men and women of honour , they have been gaining respect around the world for as long as they have been here and now all of a sudden the Americans can't differentiate between Sikhs and Taleban ??
C'mon guys , wake up and take a good look at yourselves and see how low you "folks" are acting.
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Have to agree with the above post. I find it very sad that Sikhs should have to remove their turbans or not fly (presumably for fear of upsetting their fellow passengers). Maybe the Captain should make an announcement (with the pax in question permission) to allieviate any fears. Come to think of it, was it only done because pax might be afraid? Did anyone actually complain? Maybe they should be told 'There is as much danger from this man as there is from yourself, he has been through the same checks as you, you are free to leave the aircraft if you wish'. 
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Any suggestion that a passenger may be a danger implies that security is useless. If pax think they are not protected they should get out of the airport, not force Muslims or (for god's sake) turban-wearing Sikhs off planes. Disgraceful, ignorant, racist.
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Is the remark regarding the ultimatum of removing your turban not meant as emphatic sarcasm? 
The only case of such pax removal that I'm aware of is the most publicised one of the three gentlemen whose behaviour was alledgedly considered as unacceptable. Is something else really going on?
Perhaps someone could enlighten me in my ignorance please :o Otherwise this sounds like a 'wind up'
However, if it's true it is disgraceful!
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: Di - Hedral ]
The only case of such pax removal that I'm aware of is the most publicised one of the three gentlemen whose behaviour was alledgedly considered as unacceptable. Is something else really going on?
Perhaps someone could enlighten me in my ignorance please :o Otherwise this sounds like a 'wind up'
However, if it's true it is disgraceful!
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: Di - Hedral ]
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Interesting to see the reaction to this news compared to the item about the 3 arab types put off a Premair plane due to nationality - there seems to be a bit of American bashing here. On one case it is a strong righto for the the captain exercising his authority and in this case it is ignorant Americans again? We are all people who make mistakes and stupid judgements and should not all be painted with the brush of ignorance!
Don't misunderstand if this happened it is unacceptable and the vast majority of Americans would definitely not approve Groover. In my opinion if any paz is denied boarding due to nationality all decent pax should deboard peaceably with them. Any airline that will discriminate based on nationality does not deserve the business.
Don't misunderstand if this happened it is unacceptable and the vast majority of Americans would definitely not approve Groover. In my opinion if any paz is denied boarding due to nationality all decent pax should deboard peaceably with them. Any airline that will discriminate based on nationality does not deserve the business.
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Type casting people is futile. I recently saw a photograph (copyright Smithsonian Inst.) of a Company of the Pennsylvania Rifles serving in the Army of the Union in the War Between The States.
The officers are all what Americans describe as "Caucasian" The men, all wearing turbans and beards, are clearly identifiable as being from Central Asia - if not Afghanistan then certainly one or other of the "-stans." Probably REAL Caucasians. I suppose that Americans from the southern states may have considered them to be terrifying back then, in the 1860's but they were certainly loyal troops of the Union Army and as American as anyone today sitting in Congress, or serving in the US Army. Get in touch with your culture America, and stop trying to put the rest of the world into tidy compartments.
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The officers are all what Americans describe as "Caucasian" The men, all wearing turbans and beards, are clearly identifiable as being from Central Asia - if not Afghanistan then certainly one or other of the "-stans." Probably REAL Caucasians. I suppose that Americans from the southern states may have considered them to be terrifying back then, in the 1860's but they were certainly loyal troops of the Union Army and as American as anyone today sitting in Congress, or serving in the US Army. Get in touch with your culture America, and stop trying to put the rest of the world into tidy compartments.
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It's not only in America, guys
This report is nothing to do with aviation, but shows prejudice is not unique to USA: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/...00/1565146.stm
This report is nothing to do with aviation, but shows prejudice is not unique to USA: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/...00/1565146.stm
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If the above story is true it is due to the widespread panic which has been caused since 911. To say that the American people in general are racist is a joke and simply not true. A Sikh in the States will be addressed as "Sir", I doubt that would ever happen in his own country or many others for that matter including sadly my own.
If this story is true it is most definitely wrong (as well as illegal) to discriminate against any individuals or groups, however I firmly believe it does not reflect the public opinion in the US.
The acts of 911 were of such an unprecedented magnitude of evil, something that humanity has not ever seen before, we must never forget that and we must stand united around the globe and anounce in one voice that this will never happen again.
After three weeks of bombing Afganistan is the world doing the right thing? Are the perpetrators being punished? I don't know the answere to both these questions. It saddens me however much to see images of innocent children being killed and injured in Afganistan.
In our quest for justice it is imperative we maintain our humanity otherwise we are no better than those who committed the atrocities.
Lets move back and look at the big picture for a moment. We are all one people living on a small planet in the middle of nowhere. Thoughout our history we have done whatever we can to rage wars and kill each other, take over our neighbour's lands and commit crimes agains eachother. Yet together united we have managed to fight diseases, feed impoverished nations and protect our environment. We have what it takes if only we decide to use it.
If this story is true it is most definitely wrong (as well as illegal) to discriminate against any individuals or groups, however I firmly believe it does not reflect the public opinion in the US.
The acts of 911 were of such an unprecedented magnitude of evil, something that humanity has not ever seen before, we must never forget that and we must stand united around the globe and anounce in one voice that this will never happen again.
After three weeks of bombing Afganistan is the world doing the right thing? Are the perpetrators being punished? I don't know the answere to both these questions. It saddens me however much to see images of innocent children being killed and injured in Afganistan.
In our quest for justice it is imperative we maintain our humanity otherwise we are no better than those who committed the atrocities.
Lets move back and look at the big picture for a moment. We are all one people living on a small planet in the middle of nowhere. Thoughout our history we have done whatever we can to rage wars and kill each other, take over our neighbour's lands and commit crimes agains eachother. Yet together united we have managed to fight diseases, feed impoverished nations and protect our environment. We have what it takes if only we decide to use it.
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YakYak although I sincerely feel that the people of Palestine have had genocide committed against them, I do not compare the events of 911 with the plight of the Palestinian people. The world community stood by and watched for years on CNN innocent childred killed in Palestine, we are all to blame here because this conflict could have been resolved years ago, the problem is there is no money to be made in it's resolve. The world's age old problem, the quest for wealth and power.
As I mentioned earlier, we are experts in inflicting pain and suffering, it's time to realize that this can only lead to our eventual self destruction.
War is easy, peace requires an effort.
To all those suffering today throughout the world because of our inherrent greed I pray for, a better and brighter future for our children.
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: CaptA320 ]
As I mentioned earlier, we are experts in inflicting pain and suffering, it's time to realize that this can only lead to our eventual self destruction.
War is easy, peace requires an effort.
To all those suffering today throughout the world because of our inherrent greed I pray for, a better and brighter future for our children.
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: CaptA320 ]
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A320 - You can start with the undemocratic islamic governments, their supported terrorist groups, and their large numbers of 12th century zenophobic islamic fundamentalistin the mid-east and asia. There's plenty of money there. They need to fix their own house before blaming the west for their perceived problems. The Palistinians have a hard time learning that when you start 2 wars against someone and LOSE, and when you support a despotic regime like Iraq, and continue to support blowing up people in random acts of mass murder, then people don't trust you and aren't inclined to give you sympathy. There will never be peace in Palistine until the terror groups are eliminated, which a Palistinian state can/would never do.
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: Roadtrip ]
[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: Roadtrip ]
Just a numbered other
Roadtrip,
You said:
'and continue to support blowing up people in random acts of mass murder'
Seen a fair bit of that at the hands of the USN and USAF this past few weeks too.
Or is an american life worth more than an Afghani?
You said:
'and continue to support blowing up people in random acts of mass murder'
Seen a fair bit of that at the hands of the USN and USAF this past few weeks too.
Or is an american life worth more than an Afghani?
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YakYak & Roadtrip, if the situation in the middle east really was as black & white as your facile (opposing) posts seem to make out, don't you think that anybody else would have noticed?
Wouldn't the problems concerned have been long solved if it really were as easy as the 2 of you indicate?
Seems to me that CaptA320 is making an honest stab at seeing the various angles and understanding the different outlooks that together form the gruesome quilt currently covering the world.
To solve a problem, understanding all aspects that compose it is surely imperative?
He adds to that a dose of humanity not seen all that often on these pages, and expresses his hopes for a better future.
IMHO his posts deserve better than short, acidy, tunnel visioned nihilistic comments.
Wouldn't the problems concerned have been long solved if it really were as easy as the 2 of you indicate?
Seems to me that CaptA320 is making an honest stab at seeing the various angles and understanding the different outlooks that together form the gruesome quilt currently covering the world.
To solve a problem, understanding all aspects that compose it is surely imperative?
He adds to that a dose of humanity not seen all that often on these pages, and expresses his hopes for a better future.
IMHO his posts deserve better than short, acidy, tunnel visioned nihilistic comments.
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Roadtrip has got it about right, and there is no doubt we are in a war against a great evil. Equally, I feel that CaptA320 has got a compassionate heart and speaks for many who are concerned about what is happening. The whole Middle East issue is incredibly complex and is frankly insoluble. Like many people, I feel very concerned about what is happening and am alarmed at civilian casualties but I fear it may be a tragice price that has to be paid.
As someone who has actually flown a number of operational missions over Iraq during the Gulf War, I know the enormous efforts that were made to avoid civilian causualties. I have no doubt that there is no one who is more alarmed by civilian casualties than the US government. I do not deceive myself that righteousness only exists with the USA (I am a Brit by the way), but when push comes to shove they are our best friends. This was not a conflict of America's choosing but let no one be under any illusions - a sleeping giant has been woken and any supporters of terrorism are going to pay a terrible price. The Americans have been very late in arriving on the field of play against terrorism and that has done them no favours. But they are in the game now in a big way and they have my clear support.
As someone who has actually flown a number of operational missions over Iraq during the Gulf War, I know the enormous efforts that were made to avoid civilian causualties. I have no doubt that there is no one who is more alarmed by civilian casualties than the US government. I do not deceive myself that righteousness only exists with the USA (I am a Brit by the way), but when push comes to shove they are our best friends. This was not a conflict of America's choosing but let no one be under any illusions - a sleeping giant has been woken and any supporters of terrorism are going to pay a terrible price. The Americans have been very late in arriving on the field of play against terrorism and that has done them no favours. But they are in the game now in a big way and they have my clear support.
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'and continue to support blowing up people in random acts of mass murder'
Seen a fair bit of that at the hands of the USN and USAF this past few weeks too.
Or is an american life worth more than an Afghani?
Seen a fair bit of that at the hands of the USN and USAF this past few weeks too.
Or is an american life worth more than an Afghani?
Considering the majority of people in here have some connection to aviation, and it could have been anyones aircraft (maybe yours, or your friends?) which was taken over, I am shocked to hear such a stand from here.
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I say we should now give the israeli army our full support. The Palestinian people are so greedy they won't even share a shred of land with a people that have been violently oppressed throughout the last century. The palestinians have proven themselves total scumbags as far as I'm concerned.........they dance in the streets when people die.
Admittedly, a lot of americans dislike the palestinians, but do you see us rejoicing when an israeli tanks blows up a half dozen of them? No, because we don't support pointless violence, but any palestinian goverment obviously will.
Admittedly, a lot of americans dislike the palestinians, but do you see us rejoicing when an israeli tanks blows up a half dozen of them? No, because we don't support pointless violence, but any palestinian goverment obviously will.