CAA Inquiry into BA Engineer @ Glasgow
I have just come in on this thread, and have read most of it. If my comment has been made already and I missed it, I'm sorry.
If you are concerned about maintenance errors and maintenance standards, there is little hard evidence to support fears that they are worsening; indeed the opposite is true.
But there is a great deal of anecdotal stuff, some of it on this thread, and some of that is well founded. We cannot pretend that there is no problem.
One place to look for a reason is the fact that revenues per flight hour, across the industry, are a tiny fraction of what they used to be in real terms.
It's true that most airlines are infinitely more efficient than before, and aircraft need much less maintenance than before per flight hour/cycle.
But when, having achieved all those economies, you cut the money available for maintenance to the bone because you are charging prices that are well below the real cost of owning and operating the aircraft, no-one should be surprised if standards eventually fall.
It's as simple as that. Not many passengers realise the downside of their cheapo flight, and perhaps it's time to ignore the conventions about talking safety in public, and restore some sanity to fare levels and incomes.
Or do we wait for the smoking hole, in the traditional way?
If you are concerned about maintenance errors and maintenance standards, there is little hard evidence to support fears that they are worsening; indeed the opposite is true.
But there is a great deal of anecdotal stuff, some of it on this thread, and some of that is well founded. We cannot pretend that there is no problem.
One place to look for a reason is the fact that revenues per flight hour, across the industry, are a tiny fraction of what they used to be in real terms.
It's true that most airlines are infinitely more efficient than before, and aircraft need much less maintenance than before per flight hour/cycle.
But when, having achieved all those economies, you cut the money available for maintenance to the bone because you are charging prices that are well below the real cost of owning and operating the aircraft, no-one should be surprised if standards eventually fall.
It's as simple as that. Not many passengers realise the downside of their cheapo flight, and perhaps it's time to ignore the conventions about talking safety in public, and restore some sanity to fare levels and incomes.
Or do we wait for the smoking hole, in the traditional way?
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Old, not bold.
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Think your last comment is the way it will go.
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Aircraft require Pilots and Cabin Crew to operate and we can all see that, other parts of the operation like Maint can be reduced to a very low standard to save money, an old saying, "if you think Safety costs to much, try having an accident"???
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Think your last comment is the way it will go.
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Aircraft require Pilots and Cabin Crew to operate and we can all see that, other parts of the operation like Maint can be reduced to a very low standard to save money, an old saying, "if you think Safety costs to much, try having an accident"???
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Surely Bus this is a level 1 finding. Manager's on a dispensation abusing the priviledge given to them. On BA's addmission all aircraft were returned to the hangar and work re certified, this alone means something went on. Also BA QA would have had to notify the CAA on two fronts, the non compliance of several (?) aircraft to the AMP and the fact of the illegal stamping which caused this non compliance.
Also cant tell me that the CAA bods are not aware of this through this site. Perhaps with all the nice weather they are unable to see through the sunnies.
Also cant tell me that the CAA bods are not aware of this through this site. Perhaps with all the nice weather they are unable to see through the sunnies.
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This sort of thing is not within the remit of the AAIB - no accident has occurred.
Is the UK CAA investigating this? Has BA tracked down every "certification" made by proxy and re-inspected the task?
Is the UK CAA investigating this? Has BA tracked down every "certification" made by proxy and re-inspected the task?
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Bus
Doesn't matter. The AMP was not followed which compromised the C of A. Go back to basics.
This should have been reported by the QAM. Especially if several aircraft were affected as reported on Airmech but we are talking about Big Airway's. Another thing is the dispensation from the CAA was abused. Unhappy as the QAM might feel his duty is to report. What he say's in the report is subject to conjecture but given the replies on here and airmech the CAA are bound to investigate.
Arn't they!!!!!!
Also even without the publicity should be picked up on the audit.
Doesn't matter. The AMP was not followed which compromised the C of A. Go back to basics.
This should have been reported by the QAM. Especially if several aircraft were affected as reported on Airmech but we are talking about Big Airway's. Another thing is the dispensation from the CAA was abused. Unhappy as the QAM might feel his duty is to report. What he say's in the report is subject to conjecture but given the replies on here and airmech the CAA are bound to investigate.
Arn't they!!!!!!
Also even without the publicity should be picked up on the audit.
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Originally Posted by itwilldoatrip
Bus
Also even without the publicity should be picked up on the audit.
Also even without the publicity should be picked up on the audit.
Do I assume however, that it was actually BA's quality ( euphimism here ) dept that reported the events to the CAA or were they informed by other sources ?. Just wondering as public admissions of guilt are not one of the most obvious features of BA's engineering management.
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Perhaps Joetom didn't mean to refer to AAIB. This sort of incident is not within the AAIB's remit - it is up to the CAA.
The following is an extract from the AAIB's website:
Purpose
"To improve aviation safety by determining the causes of accidents and serious incidents and making Safety Recommendations to prevent accidents in the future."
Chief Inspector
In carrying out our purpose we will strive to:
* respond quickly to air accidents and serious incidents and lead and manage the accident investigation team while ensuring their safety at the accident location.
* conduct thorough, independent, impartial and timely investigations into air accidents and serious incidents.
* produce clearly written, thorough and concise reports with well-founded analysis and conclusions, that explain the circumstances and causes of accidents and serious incidents, without attributing blame.
* ensure compliance with ICAO Annex 13 and UK statutory obligations for the investigation of air accidents.
* provide assistance and expertise to the international air accident community to improve aviation safety globally.
* improve aviation safety in general by education and promulgating the lessons learnt from accident investigations.
* treat the survivors and the relatives of victims of air accidents sympathetically and help them to understand ‘what happened’ and what is being done to prevent similar accidents in the future.
* maintain and develop excellence in our people and provide a fulfilling environment in which to work
The following is an extract from the AAIB's website:
Purpose
"To improve aviation safety by determining the causes of accidents and serious incidents and making Safety Recommendations to prevent accidents in the future."
Chief Inspector
In carrying out our purpose we will strive to:
* respond quickly to air accidents and serious incidents and lead and manage the accident investigation team while ensuring their safety at the accident location.
* conduct thorough, independent, impartial and timely investigations into air accidents and serious incidents.
* produce clearly written, thorough and concise reports with well-founded analysis and conclusions, that explain the circumstances and causes of accidents and serious incidents, without attributing blame.
* ensure compliance with ICAO Annex 13 and UK statutory obligations for the investigation of air accidents.
* provide assistance and expertise to the international air accident community to improve aviation safety globally.
* improve aviation safety in general by education and promulgating the lessons learnt from accident investigations.
* treat the survivors and the relatives of victims of air accidents sympathetically and help them to understand ‘what happened’ and what is being done to prevent similar accidents in the future.
* maintain and develop excellence in our people and provide a fulfilling environment in which to work
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A question
Who has posted here works for BA engineering?
All this talk of smoking holes.....and all of you prepared to do sod all except....I told you so.
I'd like to sort out the idiots , time wasters and hidden agenda merchants from the people who are actually in a position to make change happen ( and NO I don't agree with the smoking hole theory). That's not to say everything in the garden is rosy either.
B73
All this talk of smoking holes.....and all of you prepared to do sod all except....I told you so.
I'd like to sort out the idiots , time wasters and hidden agenda merchants from the people who are actually in a position to make change happen ( and NO I don't agree with the smoking hole theory). That's not to say everything in the garden is rosy either.
B73
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Originally Posted by BOAC73
Who has posted here works for BA engineering?
Thus making the inevitable retribution so much easier of course. Irrespective of course, of the validity of the statements which may be conveniently ignored as previously.
All this talk of smoking holes.....and all of you prepared to do sod all except....I told you so.
Actually, the talk is of the prevention before it happens and the ways to alleviate this---such as complying with statutory legislation for example. This minor detail seems to have been lacking within the organisation would you not say---or is it that the events that have occurred were just unfortunate in the proximity and repetition of their timing ?
I'd like to sort out the idiots , time wasters and hidden agenda merchants from the people who are actually in a position to make change happen
That's a very interesting and somewhat denegratory collective assessment of people who have contributed to this thread, albeit in a factual manner based on experience which is seemingly an anathema to you in that any form of subjective or objective commentary concerning the failings of BA engineering provokes a response which, one might almost assume, was shall we say, being dictated to the writer. I am sure this is not the case of course and that your views are based entirely on your own perceptions as indeed are the responses of of those of us who have chosen to contribute with---factual commentary.
And of course, once you have sorted out the wheat from the chaff as it were, then again it makes life so much easier to er, "bring pressure to bear" as it were does it not?.
Many thanks however, for inadvertantly exemplifying the issue of the prevalent culture as discussed previously.
That's not to say everything in the garden is rosy either.
One of the more classical examples of litotes I would venture to suggest?.
B73
Thus making the inevitable retribution so much easier of course. Irrespective of course, of the validity of the statements which may be conveniently ignored as previously.
All this talk of smoking holes.....and all of you prepared to do sod all except....I told you so.
Actually, the talk is of the prevention before it happens and the ways to alleviate this---such as complying with statutory legislation for example. This minor detail seems to have been lacking within the organisation would you not say---or is it that the events that have occurred were just unfortunate in the proximity and repetition of their timing ?
I'd like to sort out the idiots , time wasters and hidden agenda merchants from the people who are actually in a position to make change happen
That's a very interesting and somewhat denegratory collective assessment of people who have contributed to this thread, albeit in a factual manner based on experience which is seemingly an anathema to you in that any form of subjective or objective commentary concerning the failings of BA engineering provokes a response which, one might almost assume, was shall we say, being dictated to the writer. I am sure this is not the case of course and that your views are based entirely on your own perceptions as indeed are the responses of of those of us who have chosen to contribute with---factual commentary.
And of course, once you have sorted out the wheat from the chaff as it were, then again it makes life so much easier to er, "bring pressure to bear" as it were does it not?.
Many thanks however, for inadvertantly exemplifying the issue of the prevalent culture as discussed previously.
That's not to say everything in the garden is rosy either.
One of the more classical examples of litotes I would venture to suggest?.
B73
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K&N........oh boy!......
......and the answer to my first question is?
There is a new CAA regional Head Surveyor coming to visit BA soon. It presents a good opportunity for those of us who are concerned about the state of BA engineering to get our issues aired.
So, I ask again, who, from the posters on this thread is from BA engineering?
What are your concerns...and please let them be supported by facts.
That puts you out on a limb eh K&N?
B73.
There is a new CAA regional Head Surveyor coming to visit BA soon. It presents a good opportunity for those of us who are concerned about the state of BA engineering to get our issues aired.
So, I ask again, who, from the posters on this thread is from BA engineering?
What are your concerns...and please let them be supported by facts.
That puts you out on a limb eh K&N?
B73.
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BOAC73,
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Think you will find hole in the ground(headstone maint as the FAA call it)is alive and well, think present price is about 3M Dollars PP.
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It's used all over the world.
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Trick is to be ahead of the game, get close and risk fingers being burnt, am sure the bean counters have the numbers.
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Think you will find hole in the ground(headstone maint as the FAA call it)is alive and well, think present price is about 3M Dollars PP.
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It's used all over the world.
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Trick is to be ahead of the game, get close and risk fingers being burnt, am sure the bean counters have the numbers.
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Alive and well!
Not in my bloody world it certainly is not.
Now sod off and get some real aircraft engineering experience under your belt.
Then you can pontificate on forums such as this.
B73.
Now sod off and get some real aircraft engineering experience under your belt.
Then you can pontificate on forums such as this.
B73.
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BOAC
Think you have lost the plot. This thread is about illegallity in our profession especially given the fight we have on with E.A.S.A. over the threat to withdraw our licence and livelihood. You dont have to be in BA to post here, do you!!
Good news that you are to meet the new Head Surveyor and you are to bring this matter up and hopefully other problems within BA and the industry. Think you will be in a majority of one on this one given the recognition the A.L.A.E. has had and your'e rants here that no one on this thread is actually from BA. Still we wait eagerly the result of your'e one to one meeting.
Your'e management is winning the divide and conquer battle 'old boy'
Think you have lost the plot. This thread is about illegallity in our profession especially given the fight we have on with E.A.S.A. over the threat to withdraw our licence and livelihood. You dont have to be in BA to post here, do you!!
Good news that you are to meet the new Head Surveyor and you are to bring this matter up and hopefully other problems within BA and the industry. Think you will be in a majority of one on this one given the recognition the A.L.A.E. has had and your'e rants here that no one on this thread is actually from BA. Still we wait eagerly the result of your'e one to one meeting.
Your'e management is winning the divide and conquer battle 'old boy'
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Hmmn..
Bring back flight engineers I say!
Even in my day any aeroplane leaving main base, and particularly coming out from maintenance was suspect. Since I was going to be flying in it, my checks were thorough. Sadly it was not unusual to find basic defects...panels unsecured or missing, a wrench in a thrust reverser door, avionics not operating. Perhaps the ground engineers knew that the E/O would have eyes like a hawk, and relied on his final checks of the aircraft servicability.
Fly by wire and glass cockpits are all very well, but computers don't do a flight engineers walkaround!
Bring back flight engineers I say!
Even in my day any aeroplane leaving main base, and particularly coming out from maintenance was suspect. Since I was going to be flying in it, my checks were thorough. Sadly it was not unusual to find basic defects...panels unsecured or missing, a wrench in a thrust reverser door, avionics not operating. Perhaps the ground engineers knew that the E/O would have eyes like a hawk, and relied on his final checks of the aircraft servicability.
Fly by wire and glass cockpits are all very well, but computers don't do a flight engineers walkaround!
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Mikegodsell,
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Not sure about Flt Engineers.
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But with no Ground Engineers during Aircraft transit/departures and left to Pilots to do inspection/checks, am sure many aircraft depart when they should be fixed, Pilots put in an awkard position during this type of operation.
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Good luck to all the Pilots in this position.
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Not sure about Flt Engineers.
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But with no Ground Engineers during Aircraft transit/departures and left to Pilots to do inspection/checks, am sure many aircraft depart when they should be fixed, Pilots put in an awkard position during this type of operation.
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Good luck to all the Pilots in this position.
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Originally Posted by BOAC73
......and the answer to my first question is?
There is a new CAA regional Head Surveyor coming to visit BA soon. It presents a good opportunity for those of us who are concerned about the state of BA engineering to get our issues aired.
So, I ask again, who, from the posters on this thread is from BA engineering?
What are your concerns...and please let them be supported by facts.
That puts you out on a limb eh K&N?
B73.
There is a new CAA regional Head Surveyor coming to visit BA soon. It presents a good opportunity for those of us who are concerned about the state of BA engineering to get our issues aired.
So, I ask again, who, from the posters on this thread is from BA engineering?
What are your concerns...and please let them be supported by facts.
That puts you out on a limb eh K&N?
B73.
As for me, well all my posts have been based on fact.
Oh, and it's K n C please note. Hope you pay more attention to detail during your inspections
