CAA Inquiry into BA Engineer @ Glasgow

[AUTOGLIDE]

What a very, very sad state of affairs. I doubt very much the CAA will do anything substantial about it either, they never have in the past...

[PAXboy]

So ... if the big boys are cutting costs and corners on maintenance and the LCC boys are cutting costs and corners on rosters leading to fatigue: Which to avoid? Of course, I could ask the question, Which will have the first smoking hole? but we know that it's a lottery as to who will get caught out first.

[woptb]

Unfortunately abuse of legislation both company,national & international is endemic!
Those who are fully compliant are the exception. In my experience the way companies respond to negative points raised on CAA audits is 'laughable'!
CHIRPS also appears ineffectual,again some of the responses to points raised by CHIRPS is riseable!
I've had very negative experiences with how the CAA SRG & CHIRPS respond to issues. If one were charitable their efforts could be seen as naive!
Out-sourcing,cost-cutting,downsizing have all been issues I have seen addressed by airlines , big & small, unfortunately the way they were handled all led to a degradation of standards to a lesser or greater degree.
I shall leave this industry as soon as I am able! I have had it!

[cirrus01]

BA Internal propaganda full of back slapping congrats about getting the aircraft checks out of GLA all on time...................now we know how they do it .

Just ask the engineers at LGW about the problems encountered with 737s just off check out of GLA.


There is no doubt that senior mis-management at BA Engineering should be held accountable for this, as this was happening for a long time and was not just an isolated incident.

[greatwhitehunter]

I would point out that if you think things are bad with respect to engineering standards now they are set to get much worse if EASA has it's way. EASA wants to remove the licencing system and replace it with company run 'in house' schemes to train and authorise 'suitable persons'.

Of course you all know your company will select people of intelligence and integrity, will train them rigorously and only authorise them when suitably experienced and can pass properly moderated examinations. No cognisance will be taken of any shortage of qualfied staff by the company. Also the individuals will feel in no way influenced by being beholden to the company for their qualifications.



apologies for thread drift but I needed to get it off my chest.

[Krystal n chips]

Originally Posted by cirrus01

BA Internal propaganda full of back slapping congrats about getting the aircraft checks out of GLA all on time...................now we know how they do it .
Just ask the engineers at LGW about the problems encountered with 737s just off check out of GLA.
There is no doubt that senior mis-management at BA Engineering should be held accountable for this, as this was happening for a long time and was not just an isolated incident.

No doubt "Pravda" is full of unctious praise----is it ever anything else ?--but I would not shout too loudly about Engineers and LGW given the infamous stamping that took place there as I recall. If it's any consolation to you however, the practices mentioned here duly migrated their way Northwards--interestingly enough with an influx of "management" from the South. By the way, this wouldn't be the same engineers at LGW who happily burnt 1200kgs of fuel overnight by leaving an APU running out of spite as they were not working the aircraft would it ?. For info to others, that's an APU running for 12 hrs at 100kgs p/h. Not quite the objective of it's intended use.

[BOAC73]

Krystal N Chips

...lets hope that last post was really your last post.
What a load of drivel.
You are obviously an ex BA employee....maybe enjoying retirement on your APS pension? Who knows....who cares?

Please let me reassure those folks who are reading this thread. The vast majority of us at BA engineering come to work to do a good job. There will be no smoking hole at the end of the runway, but rest assured, that is not a complacent attitude, it stems from years as a licenced engineer, and knowing my limitations.
Safe flying everyone!
B73

[itwilldoatrip]

The real issue of this thread is the fact that the unoficial stamping happened. NOTHING has been done yet by the CAA, this is because it's Big Airway's. As a consequence it puts us engineers in a bad position especially with the issue of 'The Appropriately Authorised Person' looming about. We should be using this as an issue to keep our jobs coz as sure as eggs is eggs this will be the norm if EASA has their way. The CAA will show their true colours over this and the silence is deafening.
Krystal you sure show the comradeship that has put us engineers in the position we are in now with EASA

[NWT]

The response from the CAA was normal..ie do nothing. I know of a UK licensed Engineer recently caught out signing and stamping for items that were not carried out because he couldnt be bothered to do them or whatever reason, the work included mods which were not done even though they were stamped for. Said person was made to leave company and was reported to CAA, who basically said they weren't interested as the airline involved was not UK based. Even though the work was carried out (or not as the case may be) by a UK licensed engineer at a maintenance facility in the UK !
Said engineer is still working for another airline now in the UK.....another one for the no fly list ?.............

[Krystal n chips]

Originally Posted by BOAC73

...lets hope that last post was really your last post.
What a load of drivel.
You are obviously an ex BA employee....maybe enjoying retirement on your APS pension? Who knows....who cares?

BOAC73----I would echo the same sentiment concerning your own post(s) however, I have no wish to engage in a public slanging match. And for your information, I am still working and am not, and never will be, a beneficiary of APS.


Please let me reassure those folks who are reading this thread. The vast majority of us at BA engineering come to work to do a good job. There will be no smoking hole at the end of the runway, but rest assured, that is not a complacent attitude, it stems from years as a licenced engineer, and knowing my limitations.
Safe flying everyone!
B73

As for the examples I used to illustrate that systemic failure is endemic within BA engineering, well the first one is well known and has been for years. The second was just one small example to support the first. In this industry, people talk to one another and we don't all have the insulariity of many who work for BA. Hence, when incidents happen, whether they make the public eye or not, they invariably get discussed at some point. Given the cumulative effects of increasing incidents with the organisation concerned, would you not agree that something is sadly and dangerously wrong and, as such, needs to be rectified and not simply ignored or subjected to a cosmetic gesture in the hope, that, nothing more serious will occur with the erosion of safety procedures designed to prevent such in the first place.

[Joetom]

Question.
.
How many BA staff at GLA were aware this was going on before it went public.??????????????????????:

[Joetom]

Originally Posted by Joetom

Question.
.
How many BA staff at GLA were aware this was going on before it went public.??????????????????????:

.
Still no answer to my previous question, I think my question has been answered, the CAA will be busy in GLA I guess.???

[AUTOGLIDE]

Originally Posted by Joetom

.
Still no answer to my previous question, I think my question has been answered, the CAA will be busy in GLA I guess.???

Irrespective of the amount of staff at BAMG who knew about it, (which is unknown, and it would be unfair in the extreme to brand everyone as guity), I unfortunately doubt the CAA will be very busy at all to be perfectly honest.

[Joetom]

Autoglide.
.
I think the amout of staff aware of this working they do in BAMG is very important, if it was well known by other staff and no action was taken, then not just a case off these two enginners at fault, will be a general BAMG way of working or even other/all parts of BA Engineering.
.
As I mentioned before, no people/staff have answered my question, come on chapps at GLA, was it only the two engineers who knew of this stamp on walk about duties.???

[yamaha]

Why all the fuss?

So BA have become European, shouldn't be any surprises there. Is was always going to be just a question of time.

You have probably seen the posts about EASA ridding the world of the Licensed engineer and single release.

Well what do you think single release actually means in reality.
If you think that some well qualified, experienced licence holder has supervised and managed the work........THINK AGAIN.

Even though this BA saga has put yet another nail in the LAE's coffin, it is common practice throughout Europe.

So bearing that in mind, what do you really think the CAA are going to do about it?

[greatwhitehunter]

I always remember an interview, albeit many years ago, with the head of the CAA. He stated that the main purpose of the CAA was to ensure the profitability of the British aviation industry.

[itwilldoatrip]

yahamaha

What a sad reply. Given us all an early bath.If this is excactly whats been going on in Europe for years this is excactly why our CAA licence is recognised throughout the world and not the other European ones. Is also why the CAA should be NOT sitting on thier hands and doing something proactive to help us out.

Check the overseas job adverts they want CAA EASA licences wonder why.

[yamaha]

Its not a sad reply, its reality.

The point being that who is going to take on all of Europe and win?

The answer is nobody.

Therefore your days are numbered and the CAA will not take on a lost cause!
That is what is sad about all this.

[AUTOGLIDE]

Originally Posted by Joetom

Autoglide.
.
I think the amout of staff aware of this working they do in BAMG is very important, if it was well known by other staff and no action was taken, then not just a case off these two enginners at fault, will be a general BAMG way of working or even other/all parts of BA Engineering.
.
As I mentioned before, no people/staff have answered my question, come on chapps at GLA, was it only the two engineers who knew of this stamp on walk about duties.???

Hey Joetom, I think you may have missed my point here a little bit. What I'm getting at is that as it stands, nobody knows how many people at BAMG knew about it, so let's not start blaming everyone, it may be just a few bad eggs, maybe everyone is a bad egg, I don't know and neither does anyone else except the staff of BAMG. But however many, I doubt CAA will do anything in a meaningful way.
What I personally find so awful is that basically, how the hell did aircraft maintenance come to this in the UK? When I did my BCAR Multi-X etc it was a serious profession, to say I'm gutted at the way this (aircraft maintenance and aviation in general) is all going would the biggest ever understatement I've ever made. I didn't invest 8 years of my life in an apprenticeship and studying to become a Licensed Aircraft Engineer (licences which turned out to be harder than the BSc Honours degree I completed afterwards) to be in this sort of industry. It's just not good enough.

[legza kimbo]

Great White Hunter, in response to your earlier "off thread" post. Myself and a few of my workmates have written to our mp's and mep's on the matter that you very eloquently put across. So far the response has been promising and they are trying to confront EASA from various angles, be it through the European parliament, or through european and nations transport ministers.
Maybe more letters to different MP's, may bring it to the public's attention. All MPs and MEPs can easily be found on google.
The BA case could become more the norm, if companies are allowed to self regulate.

My apologies for also wandering off thread.