Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

JEA CRJ fleet

Old 25th Jun 2001, 16:59
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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At least BE have made a decision to cut costs, and the best way to do this is to remove a aircraft type.

I have been critical of BE in the past... but finally they seem to be getting their act together!

Like most regional carriers BE have found that its much easier to make money flying on routes with no competition. Many of the thinner routes that BE operate on would not support a second carrier (all routes ex EXE) or Jet operations (All routes ex EXE).

As The CRJ would not suit EXE, and cant operate into LCY, it leaves BHD, which is coming under increased low cost pressure.

BE will probably follow BRALs smart scottish move and exit BRS and STN - Belfast. Hence the need to remove some aircraft from the fleet.

With the RJX replacing the 146 and the Dash operation firmly in place... it leaves the CRJ as the weakest link.


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Old 25th Jun 2001, 17:39
  #22 (permalink)  
lineup
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May be, our CEO got a good deal
 
Old 25th Jun 2001, 22:03
  #23 (permalink)  
SussexPSR
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Raw Data...
You say no crew have ever been made redundant at JY....flight crew maybe, however cabin crew have been - I was a #1 at the short lived LGW base & got a nice big redundancy cheque (not...) at the end of winter 93/94 as did around 15 other c/crew....a complete cock up of management at the time, notably Cabin Services & Personnel.
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 00:37
  #24 (permalink)  
be142736
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Raw Data......
I don't know which BE you work for but here in EXT things aren't as rosey as you make out. As things stand at the moment you can expect to see the following anounced in the next month.
1 CRJ Fleet will be going back in return for 2 D8-400
2 The 2 146's and 360 that are owned will be sold at the end of the summer.
3 On delivery of the first 2 D8-400, the 2 D8-300 on loan will be returned.
4 ABZ will shut at the end of the summer.

While no pilots will go there will be a loss of cabin crew. I was told by Rostering that we have already had 62 cabin crew resign since January!!!

Things certainly aren't as bright as you make out!!!!!
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 01:16
  #25 (permalink)  
mercury_7
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Hmmm, just who is Raw Data kidding. After reading this evenings vitriolic posting from him(or her), and after talking to my friends at BEA things are not as rosy in the garden as he would have us believe. Granted the post by BavariaBoy may be speculation based on information from second sources, however I urge Raw Data to get real and enter the real world because you certainly aren't flying the rosters my coleagues are or you would get with the programme and try to improve conditions for the troops. By the way are you 'management' perchance and no offence is intended for those management bods who are trying to square things up!
------------------------------------------
Keep her lit!


[This message has been edited by mercury_7 (edited 25 June 2001).]
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 01:23
  #26 (permalink)  
BavarianBoy
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Thanks BE142736, Me thinks Raw Data lives in dreamland!!
RD, i am certainly not anti-BE, just stating the truth, sorry if i am not gullable to believe your positive spin. BE need to lose crew in the coming months to avoid lay offs, and that was a remark from on high!!
They need quite a few to go, hence they hope to hack everyone off by the lack of pay rise in Sept then they hope enough will leave to save them having to off load crews.Wake up RD, things are not good!
The resignations rumour.... well, we shall see, and as for the fleet rationalisation, well, I think BE142736 covered that!!
As I have said lots, the staff at BE are great and are the company's best asset and I do not wish to be anti BE, I really hope they turn it around, and with the planned cost cutting I think they will. Unfortunately,crews again will get shafted by management cock ups!! I hope the happy crews you talk about RD are not in your fantasy, for their sake!!


------------------
Gentleman, less haste more speed!
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 03:08
  #27 (permalink)  
Raw Data
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Well, BavarianBoy, if I am living in dreamland, you are living on a completely different planet.

As many do, you confuse the standard pilot whingeing with reality. Many might complain, but very, very few have actually resigned (and there are LOTS of jobs out there for experienced crews).

I'm willing to bet that there will be no pilot layoffs (and that also from someone "on high").

Regarding your alleged "resignations", any that might have gone would have done so by now. More idle speculation.

Regarding fleet "rationalisation", ,NO decisions have yet been taken.

mercury_7: No, I am not flying the rosters your colleagues are. I fly the roster I am given, and very friendly it is too: this month, about 60 hours flying, 39 sectors, 11 days off and a few meetings thrown in. That is fairly standard for my base. Some are better, some worse- hard to comment without seeing your colleagues' rosters. For your information, I am a representative on the internal BE employee forum, so, yes, I am trying to improve things.

be142736: NONE of the events you mention have yet been decided upon. At least two of them are complete bollocks. The third one is also complete bollocks if you got the type right. The second, well, all those aircraft have been for sale for a very long time (over two years).

By the way, EXT is a very small flying base (probably the smallest), and is therefore hardly a good guage of general company morale.

SussexPSR: correct, I referred only to flight deck. Having said that, I would be very surprised if cabin crew made redundant were not offered jobs elsewhere within the company.
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 03:59
  #28 (permalink)  
BavarianBoy
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Keep dreaming RD, I certainly do not mean to offend you personally but from my past expeiences and a lot of friends at BE you are in dreamland. However, maybe the past weeks events are a step in the right direction but I would think crews know a lot more needs to be done. Remember, the first step to rehabilitation is to admit that there is a problem. People are far from happy, EXT can only get better, it is just a pity CRJ crews are the losers!
Read the threads and make up your own mind what BE crews think... it ain't good!
What is being reaped now by the management is what they have been sowing for years, hopefully it is not too late!

Good luck!BB
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 04:14
  #29 (permalink)  
BavarianBoy
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Well said Mercury_7.. yes i am speculating but it is educated however i do not claim to be 100% correct but certainly not too far wide of the mark, not so far anyhow. Well done on your escape, don't destroy the tunnel though, others are behind us!!haha!

RD, keep dreaming... oh, try this, repeat this "My name is Raw Data and I am Kidding myself" It may work but i have my doubts!

good luck all..BB

------------------
Gentleman, less haste more speed!
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 15:39
  #30 (permalink)  
SussexPSR
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RD....sorry to split hairs, however the redundancies I spoke of no one was offered positions at other bases despite c/c vacancies available at BHD/BLK/LBA/JER...not that any of us would have taken them...one of the main reason that the c/c base was closedwas the fact that DD in personnel was paying LGW #1s on the Line Trainer scale i.e. 1500 or so more than other bases #1s....we never knew why at LGW & neither did the rest of the company, but we certainly didnt complain!!
I'm not bitter at having been made redundant by JY at all (I've gone on to bigger & better things since), however in terms of on board service, when virtually none of the c/crew at other bases had jet experience, we got little praise or thanks for helping with the introduction of the 146s.
I have some very fond memories of my time at JY & hope for the sake of those there now, esp. c/crew, are being treated with a little more respect & recognition - I can't judge Flight Crew management at the time, but Personnel & the Britannia mafia in Cabin Services were certainly close to the bottom of their learning curve...
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 16:59
  #31 (permalink)  
Raw Data
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BavarianBoy, much as I hate to prolong your fishing expedition, you are still wide of the mark.

I hope you don't really think that the few BE pilots to contribute here represent the views of the entire pilot workforce. PPRuNe by its very nature tends to bring out the whingers (due to its' anonymous nature), and that is clearly reflected in what a very tiny sample post from time to time. All you are trying to do is ride the crest of a (very small) wave of dissent.

That you refuse to acknowledge the aspects of the company that make it streets ahead of comparable employers, is proof enough of your agenda here. It is also typical of the "whinger" mentality often seen on this forum.

For others, the company long ago recognised the problems brought on by years of very rapid growth. As equipment and pilot numbers soared, the infrastructure struggled to keep up and still does. The company put in place some very highly-credentialed people (many of them ex-BA) to address these issues, and progress is being made- however it will always be slow (as in any airline).

When I joined just over three years ago, we had a bit more than half the pilots we now do. Many, many people have got their first jobs at BE and the majority are happy to have had the opportunity- never mind the ones we took on as commanders. I now find myself in the upper 30% of the seniority list.

Even a very casual perusal of this forum will reveal lots of disatisfaction, spread over many airlines. Some of the complaints from pilots in prominent UK airlines make BEs' problems seem minor.

Now, I don't expect BavarianBoy to show any sense of balance here, but the reality is not as he tells it- I know that because I fly the line virtually every day. What you hear on the line is NOT what BavarianBoy would have you believe...
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 20:50
  #32 (permalink)  
barcode
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Raw Data raises a number of very interesting points. Bavarian Boy, unfortunately for RD, tells it as it is from the “coalface” viewpoint in BE and is absolutely on the numbers with every fact he reports.

Raw Data – two points you might like to consider:

- The fact that you have been in BE for a mere 3 years and are already 30% of the way down the list is not strictly indicative of the rate at which the company has expanded, it is substantially down to the number of pilots senior to you who have left. If you don’t believe me, compare your seniority number on the day you joined to the number you have now - a lot of very talented people have woken up, smelt the coffee and left.

- I suggest that you are, in your pseudo-management guise, out of touch with, at very best the troops at large, and at very worst – and more alarmingly – the troops at your own base. My boss from a previous life is well placed on the recruitment side of a successful orange low-cost operator and I believe your entire base is trying to leave. As to how that reflects on you as their leader, or on the BE operation as a whole is a matter of subjective interpretation.




[This message has been edited by barcode (edited 26 June 2001).]
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 21:07
  #33 (permalink)  
Raw Data
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Oh, give it a rest barcode, you don't know what you are on about.

First of all, I AM at the coalface, unlike BavarianBoy. My observations are first-hand.

Second, at my base there is only one captain- me. All the F/O's may have applications in- I wouldn't want to speak for them, but I have no problem believing that. Let's assume for the sake of argument, that they are all looking to go (all 5 of them). The PRIMARY reason that most want to leave is to move on to a larger airline operating either Boeing or Airbus aircraft. It has very, very little to do with their current working conditions. This situation is SOP for virtually every F/O in airlines of our size, and also very common in the likes of Easy where most want to move to bigger types.

When I was an F/O, I had CV's out everywhere and updated them constantly (flying a shed does that to you). The situation you describe is so ordinary as to not really be worth putting the newspaper down for...

Moving on to your other points, the resignation rate for the last couple of years has been extremely low (less than 10% per annum). Very few pilots above me have left to go to other jobs (only a couple so far this year), but quite a few have retired.

The entire BE base at EDI MIGHT be trying to leave, but then so is the entire ScotAirways Base, the entire BRAL base, etc (as far as F/O's are concerned, which is what we are talking about).

Those are the facts, not the gossip that BavarianBoy is listening to...
 
Old 26th Jun 2001, 23:15
  #34 (permalink)  
tilii
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Hello again, RD

Goodness me, what an extraordinary chap you are! When I recently had a little prod at you about your phenomenal posting rate on a thread about bonding, I did not realise it had stung you so much that you would then engineer a means to post 7 times (so far on this one thread) without the posts being added to your overall score (stuck on 1447 for an inordinately long time now, old bean).

Barcode, Bavarian Boy, et al

Give it up lads. Surely the penny must have dropped by now. RD is a very sensitive gentleman who takes deep offence at any criticism of his employer or himself. The deeper the state of offence, the more RD (and RD is a HE, by the way) resorts to throwing his weight around. I ask you, what kind of airline base is it that sports just one bossy, overbearing Captain and 5 First Officers? Perhaps an explanation of RD’s meteoric rise to illustrious status on the BEA seniority list is that his mere presence causes his more senior Captains to retreat from association. One is left to speculate as to whether it became necessary to roster 5 F/Os to share the stressful time spent on the flight deck with our goodly chum RD.

Even when the entire world is at odds with Raw Data, it does not even begin to occur to him that it is he that is out of step. Not once have I seen him take a fellow poster’s point on board, admit the error of his own position, and have the good grace to say he was wrong. It is, I am sorry to say, the nature of the beast. Always it is the world that is wrong. When you sit down carefully and read RD’s posts, it becomes clear that he is a sycophantic, pseudo-intellectual, pedantic nit-picker with little more to keep him happy in this world than being an abundant poster on PPRuNe. His wont in life is to hijack other’s threads and thrust his cyber-rod into as many others’ cyber-orifices as possible. Best, I think, to pack up and walk away from him ... rather like his colleagues in BEA are doing, don’t you know. Bye bye, RD.
 
Old 27th Jun 2001, 00:08
  #35 (permalink)  
Raw Data
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Oh dear, tilii, I must have really upset you. Once again you have shown your immaturity and lack of intellect by playing the person rather than the ball. I should have expected nothing less... you clearly hate to lose arguments.

Is it worth answering your points? Not really, but, what the hell, there's nothing on the box tonight anyway, and it might entertain some ppruners.

Why one captain and 5 F/Os? Simple. From our base, we only fly to Cat C airfields. All new captains require at least six months on type before they can operate into Cat C airfields (company rule). As it is a relatively new base, most of the captains have bid for the base in order to get their commands, and none have yet completed the required six months. I'm sure that is all far too sensible for you to understand.

Sadly, you have not yet understood that the company to which you refer is actually BE and not BEA. Ah well.

I didn't expect you to understand the concept of loyalty, especially in the face of quite incorrect assertions from people outwith the company they comment on. Such, it seems, is the nature of the beast.

The rest of your personal diatribe is beneath comment, except to say that I find it somewhat sad that you should have to hijack a thread in which you have no interest, in order to personally atack me. The leopard, it seems, is incapable of changing its' spots.

Ah well. Let the audience decide...
 
Old 27th Jun 2001, 00:11
  #36 (permalink)  
don-ing-ton
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I have many friends who fly for jea,and whilst there are grumbles, they are no less happy than any other airline around. From what I read raw data is far closer to the truth than those who seem to think its clever to constantly run both him and his company down.
 
Old 27th Jun 2001, 00:46
  #37 (permalink)  
tilii
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Cool

My dear Mr XXXXX (no pun intended)

I am not much interested in what your employer calls itself on this day, or its blatant attempt to hijack the reputation earned in Europe by a prior operator of similar nomenclature.

As it happens, I do have quite a keen interest in this thread ... I have friends on the CRJ fleet at BE, or BEA, or whatever your tiny outfit is called. And believe it or not Mr RIGHT, it is actually possible to have a keen interest in a thread without having to leap into print thereon and throw your weight around like you so often do.

Whether the people "outwith the company they comment on" are erroneous in their postings or not is hardly the point, dear chap. Because they are outwith the company, they are not able to comment on the forum moderated by your good self. It is churlish of you to attempt to stifle comment other than on the company forum. That you fail to do so is no cause for you, having failed, to seek to brand their comment as "bollocks" or whatever ill-chosen profanity you wish to publish.

I am flattered that you imitate my phraseology ("the nature of the beast") in your post, but it does smack somewhat of lack of originality.

Judging by the posts above, methinks the audience has already decided, old bean.

Anyway, I'll leave you alone now, having tossed in my two penneth.

Ta ta, and toodle pip!

[This message has been edited by tilii (edited 26 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 30 June 2001).]
 
Old 27th Jun 2001, 01:35
  #38 (permalink)  
vulcanite
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tilii, dunno who you are, or what your agenda isb but I am pleased to inform you that you are the outstanding winner of this week's Prick of the Week Award. congratulations, with a small c.
 
Old 27th Jun 2001, 02:32
  #39 (permalink)  
Dr. Hertz Van Rental
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As a JEA/BE escapee, who remains in very regular contact with ex-collegues, I must say that the opinion projected by RawData as to the level of morale is the opinion of the few rather than the masses! I cannot speak for anyone but myself and my reasons for leaving were the same as the greivences felt by those who remain, not a lot seems to have changed.

As to the argument put by someone that we are all whingers( or words to that effect ), yes we are generally as a profession but in some of the smaller companies they have damned good reaon to whinge.

RawData if you are happy and contented at Brit. Euro. you are a very fortunate man indeed and I sincerely congratulate your personal Utopia.......BUT when you post your comments(which I must admit make me wonder if you do anything else in your sparetime) defending your employer with such vitriol you must conceed that others do not necessarily hold the same view and have every right to post their opinion too.

Nothing I have read in this thread would cause me to think any of them are any less professional for voicing an opinion here that wouldn't be passed among other pilots at any gathering. And we all know how fast news travels in this job!

As an 'Old Boy' I wish everyone at BE the best of luck and hope the powers that be do smell the coffee burning and resolve to rectify the situation B4 it is 2 late!!!!

------------------
Lights, Camera....... Revolution!!!

[This message has been edited by Dr. Hertz Van Rental (edited 26 June 2001).]
 
Old 27th Jun 2001, 02:55
  #40 (permalink)  
tilii
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vulcanite

"dunno who you are" either, and could not care less. Don't have an "agenda isb" but do have an aversion to smart-arsed and foul-mouthed bigots of the first order like you and Mr RIGHT above.

Delighted to know that the "Prick of the Week" Society, for which you are presumably the elected spokesperson, places this week's award with me. I am honoured, and of course delighted to accept it.

And yes, we see that you wrote "congratulations" with a small "c". Clever boy.

[This message has been edited by tilii (edited 26 June 2001).]
 

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