Comair TA - Rumor
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Correct, the seniority integration issue predated the strike but it was indicative of the leadership's agenda. These guys are really shootin' for the moon. As I said before, timing is everything and now is not the time. To their credit though, the issue has at least seen the light of day now, especially with the proliferation of wholly owned subsidaries today. Who knows what the future will hold.
As to the "empty greedy suits" at Comair, I think this goes a little deeper than that. I'll bet Leo (DAL CEO) is getting pressure from the ATA (the big boys club) to hold the line with the commuter lot, lest American Eagle, ASA, or others get uppity.
As to the "empty greedy suits" at Comair, I think this goes a little deeper than that. I'll bet Leo (DAL CEO) is getting pressure from the ATA (the big boys club) to hold the line with the commuter lot, lest American Eagle, ASA, or others get uppity.
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Just heard a rumour about some (I heard 3) of Comair's folks giving up on strike pay and going to work for Eurowings on contract during the strike. Any truth to the story that they were fired?
What do the rest of their brothers think about that show of solidarity?
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Elliot Moose is on the Loose!
What do the rest of their brothers think about that show of solidarity?
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Elliot Moose is on the Loose!
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There is nothing wrong with leaving an airline during a strike and heading for greener pastures, as long as you aren't receiving strike benefits at the same time.
To some degree it further's the union's cause as those pilots will have to be completely replaced rather than requalified which is a much quicker process, thereby further increasing the cost to management of the strike.
Why would the rank and file possibly object to a member finding employment elsewhere?
Cheers
Wino
To some degree it further's the union's cause as those pilots will have to be completely replaced rather than requalified which is a much quicker process, thereby further increasing the cost to management of the strike.
Why would the rank and file possibly object to a member finding employment elsewhere?
Cheers
Wino
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Come on now, some of you folks always blame ALPA national for the decisions made by a given airlines' internal (MEC) leadership. Are the decisions at a given carrier not made by local pilots, whether or not we, as outsiders, choose to second-guess the wisdom of their internal decisions? Whether other pilots generally like ALPA (warts and all) or hate it, I am very slow in trying to comprehend what we can replace it with. All of us would prefer that all airlines not just appreciate but comprehend our jobs and responsibilities while we are in our "hot seat", but we should not deceive ourselves. Using major inaccuracies or very broad stereotypes to attack ALPA's present representation problems doesn't bother me one bit at all (I don't even care if you attack the old planes I fly-only planes full of microchips seem to arouse strong defensive mentalities in their "systems operators"), but it just baffles me what our other choices are for pilot representation.
It just doesn't appear to me that such tarring of national ALPA with the same brush is very valid, other than out of bias, or personal revenge for something. If such tarring is valid, then please explain the connection, i.e. that national ALPA failed to advise the COMAIR MEC that the timing and Presidential Executive Branch "sympathies" (i.e. strongly anti-labor) created dangerous turf on which to attack the enemy? I was not with Eastern, Pan Am or any other larger carrier which went under, but have read about the lobbying which the ATA and RAA have, in order to influence Washington politicians (maybe cabinet-level and above...?). Go to old Aviation Weeks from the mid 80s thru early 90s and find out which Texas-based company various federal judges (from the DOT?) went to after critical decisions were made concerning the most demonic airline "cannibal" and his ruthless gutting of various airline operations, all with the blessings of the US Exec. and much of the Leg. branches.
Since when did national ALPA (which has yet to encounter competition from any sizeable US pilot union: there is no such association) dictate to each pilot Master Exec. Council how it should execute decisions? I've acknowledged on other topics how imperfect the assoc. is, but it is the ONLY pilot organization with any strength which we have, warts and all (i.e. allowing CO and FEDEX into the group, but ironically, earlier, one of the largest four US major airlines, many of whose pilots had belonged many years to ALPA, had quite a fraction of pilots who did not even belong to ALPA-see where it got them on their previous scope clause, or lack thereof. Some of them now look down on other US pilot groups who had strong solidarity long before they even experienced this novel status).
If ALPA's function consists of such a rigid vertical dictatorship, it is news to me. Come on, I challenge some of you to attempt to filter out the personal or professional bias and explain how such a very large organization can operate without any contradictions or politics, while representing pilots at US regional, national and major airlines, both pax and cargo. Like the airline management unions, the ATA and RAA, ALPA too must lobby Congress in order to be heard and seen.
How much distance is required to steer a US aircraft carrier into a 180 degree turn? Nobody can expect them to turn like a destroyer: but can not carriers launch many more aircraft and weapons toward both strategic and tactical targets?
This church service is dismissed: free lemonade and chocolate chip cookies in the reception room.
[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 08 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 09 June 2001).]
It just doesn't appear to me that such tarring of national ALPA with the same brush is very valid, other than out of bias, or personal revenge for something. If such tarring is valid, then please explain the connection, i.e. that national ALPA failed to advise the COMAIR MEC that the timing and Presidential Executive Branch "sympathies" (i.e. strongly anti-labor) created dangerous turf on which to attack the enemy? I was not with Eastern, Pan Am or any other larger carrier which went under, but have read about the lobbying which the ATA and RAA have, in order to influence Washington politicians (maybe cabinet-level and above...?). Go to old Aviation Weeks from the mid 80s thru early 90s and find out which Texas-based company various federal judges (from the DOT?) went to after critical decisions were made concerning the most demonic airline "cannibal" and his ruthless gutting of various airline operations, all with the blessings of the US Exec. and much of the Leg. branches.
Since when did national ALPA (which has yet to encounter competition from any sizeable US pilot union: there is no such association) dictate to each pilot Master Exec. Council how it should execute decisions? I've acknowledged on other topics how imperfect the assoc. is, but it is the ONLY pilot organization with any strength which we have, warts and all (i.e. allowing CO and FEDEX into the group, but ironically, earlier, one of the largest four US major airlines, many of whose pilots had belonged many years to ALPA, had quite a fraction of pilots who did not even belong to ALPA-see where it got them on their previous scope clause, or lack thereof. Some of them now look down on other US pilot groups who had strong solidarity long before they even experienced this novel status).
If ALPA's function consists of such a rigid vertical dictatorship, it is news to me. Come on, I challenge some of you to attempt to filter out the personal or professional bias and explain how such a very large organization can operate without any contradictions or politics, while representing pilots at US regional, national and major airlines, both pax and cargo. Like the airline management unions, the ATA and RAA, ALPA too must lobby Congress in order to be heard and seen.
How much distance is required to steer a US aircraft carrier into a 180 degree turn? Nobody can expect them to turn like a destroyer: but can not carriers launch many more aircraft and weapons toward both strategic and tactical targets?
This church service is dismissed: free lemonade and chocolate chip cookies in the reception room.
[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 08 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 09 June 2001).]
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Down in 3 green
WRONG! You either know nothing about the structure of a union or else (and I think this is more likely) are deliberately distorting the structure to suit your ALPA bashing.
A specific airline is composed of an MEC which is made up of LECs. LECs elect the MEC and can get together to recall the MEC or it can be done at a grass roots level across the entire airline.
An MEC cannot be recalled by national. Only by the rank and file members of the Local.
But continue to Demonize ALPA all you want,unjustly and unfairly, but everyone sees through you. ALPA has been defending the profession since before you are born and is the only reason that world wide airline salaries are higher than a bus driver.
Cheers
Wino
[This message has been edited by Wino (edited 08 June 2001).]
WRONG! You either know nothing about the structure of a union or else (and I think this is more likely) are deliberately distorting the structure to suit your ALPA bashing.
A specific airline is composed of an MEC which is made up of LECs. LECs elect the MEC and can get together to recall the MEC or it can be done at a grass roots level across the entire airline.
An MEC cannot be recalled by national. Only by the rank and file members of the Local.
But continue to Demonize ALPA all you want,unjustly and unfairly, but everyone sees through you. ALPA has been defending the profession since before you are born and is the only reason that world wide airline salaries are higher than a bus driver.
Cheers
Wino
[This message has been edited by Wino (edited 08 June 2001).]
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I was closely involved with the negotiations of an ALPA regional carrier a few years ago.
Haven't heard for sure, but I'd bet good money that ALPA national wanted the Comair pilots to accept the mediated offer.
In my old carrier's case, ALPA national wanted us to settle for much less than we finally got - after voting down Maggie Jacobsen's "compromise" (contrary to news reports, this is not the first time she has offered a NMB-written compromise contract).
Randy Babbitt personally told me we were asking for too much. This was for a contract with a top RJ rate of $65 / hour!
What is happening at Comair is being driven by the Comair pilots, with their MEC in the lead, and line pilots following in full support. ALPA national is probably just paying the lawyer bills and praying for it all to be over.
Haven't heard for sure, but I'd bet good money that ALPA national wanted the Comair pilots to accept the mediated offer.
In my old carrier's case, ALPA national wanted us to settle for much less than we finally got - after voting down Maggie Jacobsen's "compromise" (contrary to news reports, this is not the first time she has offered a NMB-written compromise contract).
Randy Babbitt personally told me we were asking for too much. This was for a contract with a top RJ rate of $65 / hour!
What is happening at Comair is being driven by the Comair pilots, with their MEC in the lead, and line pilots following in full support. ALPA national is probably just paying the lawyer bills and praying for it all to be over.
