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Comair TA - Rumor

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Comair TA - Rumor

Old 3rd Jun 2001, 20:30
  #121 (permalink)  
ironbutt57
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these 20-something have everything to loose...their careers, and families....who's feeding the kids...this is not a game you're playing...and delta will kill the cash cow before they lose this battle however big it looks to you...it is small potatoes as opposed to the consequences they face if they capitulate...this is hardball folks...not tee-ball..you've stepped up to the plate...so you'd better be ready for the consequences...
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 00:14
  #122 (permalink)  
Wino
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I disagree. If delta tries the same stunt with ASA it will be all over for DELTA.

They have surrendered cincinatti. If they don't settle with Comair they will lose their entire hub in Cincy... They can't surrender Altanta, there won't be anthing left.

Cheers
Wino
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 00:49
  #123 (permalink)  
411A
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"All over for Delta"? Hmmm, don't think so. The "commuters" (ASA included) will be folded if they do not agree to DAL terms, they have VERY deep pockets. All Delta has to do is set up another one...hope they do to teach these guys a lesson they will never forget. Still, suspect some are beyond learning, 'tis a shame for the young guys. They will learn a very hard lesson.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 01:40
  #124 (permalink)  
CONVAIR
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411a. I don't know your background but I believe you are totally mistaken or an overpaid Delta pilot. ASA/Comair and others are made of various age groups and their pay has nothing to do with their age. Are you saying that 20 year olds hired by the majors should not get paid what 30 year olds are? Maybe we should reduce retired military pilots pay since they get a pension. There are young pilots at every carrier. If the majors are losing money while the small jet airlines are getting a 10-20 per cent return, then there must be an inequality factor somewhere.
The issue of COMAIR is not just about pay but also about the respect one gets from the parent company and the lack of respect from the ALPA guys. They will say platitudes but I can assure you if DAL shuts down Comair and then hires a franchisee (don't be surprised to see MESA come in) there won't be a thing they can do. The test will be ASA then. Once again there are the have's and the wish to have and the won't ever have!
I think Comair will the the last and I hope they get their CV's out ASAP!!
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 08:02
  #125 (permalink)  
obob
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Nice rebuttal Greenie. I am not one of the young guys. However the cause is just, and I will stand the line. You are correct in the assumption that I don't own a home. Perhaps if I recieved an appropriate wage for my services, I would. Or perhaps if the major boys had the foresight, or more importantly a less arrogant demeanor, they would have demanded that the jets in question be flown by the major airline pilots. If such were the case, these planes would be on Delta property, creating more jobs with compensation in line with all of the other jet pilots at Delta, and Comair would not probably be in the pickle that they are at the moment. There is no reason that a 50 passenger airliner introduced into the market should not have been operated by the major carriers. If anything, the major pilots should have demanded that instead of scoping it. Why is it that they want the ninety someting seat Fokker, but the 50 seat CRJ is not good enough? Now we have to fight for their mistakes.
For the record, I hope for no fight. Happy or unhappy I may be with my job, as irrelevent as that is, the issue here is unequal representation and compensation for essentially equal services, and the dedication of those directly affected to correct the disparity.
My intended point, was that the next group in line(Coex) will be predominately very young, and very passionate about the issue. And I believe history has told us(or maybe it was Churchill) that if you're young and not liberal, you have no heart, and if your old and not conservative, you have no brain(or something to that effect). The issues are important enough for the older, conservative Comair group to strike and risk everything for, I think the young ones will be more than willling to follow the same route. It is far from over.
As for keeping my mind on my job, I pride myself on being able to chew gum and walk at the same time. Oddly enough I can provide my piloting services effectively and safely while at the same time, be concerned and involved with the issues in the industry that so effect my life. Perhaps it is I who should be scared.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 08:45
  #126 (permalink)  
411A
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Yes indeed, the young stary-eyed pilots may well think that to strike is noble and justified, throwing away their jobs. But, do they at all consider the jobs of others in the company? The mechanics, ticket/reservations agents, baggage staff etc, all the rest who do not share their joy at being so noble? Now lets face facts, what these pilots really want is to be part of the major airline owner, to be merged into the parent company seniority list. Well, it ain't going to happen in their lifetimes, so they had better get used to the lower salaries because it will not change. A commuter, is a commuter, is a commuter, no matter what type of aircraft it operates. To expect otherwise is foolhardy indeed.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 09:42
  #127 (permalink)  
West Coast
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To the gentleman who suggested that Delta would fold its regional carriers to save face...well perhaps they might, pride and/or saving face can be expensive. I submit however that a conventional carrier that relies heavily on the hub system cannot remain competitive without feed to that hub.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 10:08
  #128 (permalink)  
Boris Badenov
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411A: How can we afford to consider anyone else when the company is unwilling to do so? The adversarial relationship of contract negotiations is entirely the fault of cut-throat, greedy managment, not of the men working the line. Think about it...we've got a hell of a lot more to lose than they do. Maybe the market won't support regional jet flying at all since its apparently too expensive for the majors to pay reasonable wages and provide decent work rules. C'est la laissae faire!, I guess.

I am curious to know where you people think this vast pool of qualified applicants for "McDonalds Cockpit Team Member" jobs waits, chomping at the bit to get into the lucrative world of RJ flying, though.

Regards,
Boris
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 12:00
  #129 (permalink)  
ironbutt57
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I don't see Delta systematically folding their wholly owned regional partners, but I don't see them capitulating to what DL management percieves to be an unacceptable contract as wrong/right as they may be..it would be bad business to set a precedent in this direction...if the Comair pilots have the resolve to walk the walk, and see this to the end as it appears they do, them good for them...I just hope they don't pay the ultimate price of loosing everything they have fought for all these years since organizing...when was it 1984 i think? And I agree...look out for Mesa...
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 15:47
  #130 (permalink)  
DownIn3Green
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Obob,

My apologies. I must have misunderstood the tone of your earlier post. If I now understand you correctly your main beef is with ALPO, and their two sided double edged sword that they negotiate and represent with.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you can't please all of the people all of the time, and that is what they're trying to do.

If Comair voted ALPO off the property, I bet management would come right back to the bargining table.

BB, you ask where is the qualified pool of pilots? That's what was said in 1989, and guess what? EAL put the call out, and the next day the response for replacement pilots was so overwhelming that they couldn't handle the training load. It started in mid March, and by August the local MEC told the members to go back to work or all the jobs would be taken.

So don't kid yourself. Not wanting to get into a right or wrong, scab issue, but the qualified pilots are out there. ALPO knows this as does Comair management.

As someone said earlier, the fact there has not been a call for new hires does not bode well for the long term future of Comair.
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 18:25
  #131 (permalink)  
ironbutt57
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There needs to be a regional airline pilots version of alpo...one that has solely the interests of regional airline pilots as their mandate...the dual mandate of the faa is dead how's about shoot a hole in this can of alpo as well, and leave the major airline pilots to their food, and get our own, why should regional pilots eat table scraps from major tables...not too sure however that this is the time for comair pilots to de-certify the union...think that would call for lots of vaseline and assume the position...
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 19:42
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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>>BB, you ask where is the qualified pool of pilots? That's what was said in 1989, and guess what? EAL put the call out, and the next day the response for replacement pilots was so overwhelming that they couldn't handle the training load. It started in mid March, and by August the local MEC told the members to go back to work or all the jobs would be taken<<

But wasn't it ALPA national who urged them to go back to work and they refused, convinced the world couldn't do without them? And remember how the pilots who put their names on the list to go back to work were put on the scab list even if they never went? Will they be rehabilitated by ALPA like the Continental replacement pilots?

I can remember being in the Eastern strike headquarters in ATL a few days into the strike. The mood was almost festive, everbody wearing pagers and cell phones. A few weeks later, many of the strike leaders were quitely slipping away to jobs at other carriers as the masses were urged to "hold the line".

The Comair strike has eerie parallels to the Eastern fiasco. The Comair ALPA web page even has "REAL" logos, much like the "rEAL" stickers we faithful put on our pilot bags years ago.

If the Comair pilots are determined to make themselves a human sacrifice to "change the industry" perhaps the die is already cast and this discussion is merely a post mortem.

Remember the UAL strike of 1985? Years later they proudly wear strike pins and crow about the great victory but they actually capitulated, got a B-scale, and lived to fight successfully another day. TWA battled its own version of Lorenzo in Carl Ichan and survived to have jobs and seniority to fight about over at American. The record of pilot groups who have left the cockpit for over a month in the past couple of decades since deregulation is not good .
Airbubba is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2001, 20:29
  #133 (permalink)  
ironbutt57
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airbubba think we're falling on deaf ears here...most of the comair pilots were probably at college (or highschool) during the above-mentioned strikes...these guys are throwing away their jobs for a union who tries and does to some degree limit their opportunities to be jet pilots....brainwashed....by who that's the question
 
Old 4th Jun 2001, 23:32
  #134 (permalink)  
Flare_you_fool!
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It seems every comair pilot is fully aware of the implications like never before of the double edged sword of Alpa. See the RJ defence coalition www.rjdefence.com
However, they have made a choice, at last count 1042 for and 99 against, to stand up to the offensive and digusting work rules and treatment they have had to endure during the duration of their current contract. Is it not feasible for all of the people suggesting they are committing suicide that they would rather die trying than go back to the same treatment. Maybe they've just had enough of being treated like crap.
It's more than just money and retirement, if comair goes who is to say the pilots will not find a better lot in life. Have they got a lot to lose, the senior guys sure have but they certainly seem prepared to do just that. The treatment they have had must have been pretty bad.
Comair is leading the way, the rest will follow. Without a doubt!!!
Regards
FYF
 
Old 5th Jun 2001, 02:10
  #135 (permalink)  
DownIn3Green
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Airbubba, I think it was ALPO National urging them to hold the line, and the Chairman of the EAL MEC who said go back. He was then recalled. You are correct, those who signed up to return were branded, so to speak, even if they never got to set foot on the property again.

IB57, Further to what you said about the leadership slipping away to greener pastures, refresh my memory; Exactly where did Randy Babbit end up?
 
Old 5th Jun 2001, 04:18
  #136 (permalink)  
ironbutt57
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Delta!!!!!!!!!!!!dec...direct entry captain!!!
 
Old 5th Jun 2001, 05:31
  #137 (permalink)  
DownIn3Green
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Now that's preferential hiring...
 
Old 5th Jun 2001, 20:01
  #138 (permalink)  
redfish
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ATTENTION ON DECK: 411a, IB57, Din3G, and last but not lease AB... "corruptio optimi pessima"
 
Old 5th Jun 2001, 20:23
  #139 (permalink)  
DownIn3Green
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Airbubba,

At least I'm not last!!!
 
Old 5th Jun 2001, 22:15
  #140 (permalink)  
aviator
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DownIn3Green and ironbutt57...

I have read your postings for some time. It seems that both of you choose to misspell ALPA (Air Line Pilots Association).

Personally, I find it takes away from the points you are making.

Do you mind telling us why you find it important to do so?

 

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