Comair TA - Rumor
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The settlement from the nmb had them reverting to flying to FARs
I believe the 104 number was calculated on 1000 hours of flying in a year, + the value of sick days and vacation days sold back. Something like that is how it is usually done.
I learned a long time ago that press reports of a value of a contract are meaningless because the are written by people with no understanding of the work rules that frame the contract.
Cheers
Wino
I believe the 104 number was calculated on 1000 hours of flying in a year, + the value of sick days and vacation days sold back. Something like that is how it is usually done.
I learned a long time ago that press reports of a value of a contract are meaningless because the are written by people with no understanding of the work rules that frame the contract.
Cheers
Wino
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Does anyone know what the average or top CRJ pay will be for those at American Eagle (without working voluntary extra on days off), who will fly the 70-seat CRJ, with info qualifiers?
The pay issue is very deceptive if described by a simple sound-byte (media style).
The pay issue is very deceptive if described by a simple sound-byte (media style).
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Same story, different year, as a former ALPO dues-paying regional airline (in those days commuter airline) pilot, I was intrugued by the fact that myself and colleagues were ready to pay dues to a union that had absolutely no interest in us whatsoever, other than the paltry sum they recieved from us as dues....it is clearly in ALPO' best interest to put regional jet operators out of business, and this just may be the test case so to speak...heroes...yes, of the tragic sort, their families and children are going to pay the price for the greed and selfishness of ALPO pilots...I refused to cross the line at CO in 1983, now I would be forgiven...does anybody REALLY stand back and look at this "union"...the regional airline pilots of america need a union with regional pilots interests and needs as it's mandate....be a scab, no way...it's good to see the solidarity of the ComAir pilots is holding, but for themselves...not ALPO...
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Wino---
I did read the proposed contract and, for a commuter (regional) carrier, I thought it was not bad at all. But consider, even if it was NOT all that was wanted, would it not have been better to agree and then look for something better? The pilots with the most experience would have a good shot at the major carriers and the more junior guys would still have a job with which to gain experience and THEN look elsewhere. In addition, when pilots left, it would make room for others and, just as important, the support workers would still have a job as well. ALPA did these guys NO favors. And as for the "hope" that they were going to join the DAL seniority list, not in their lifetimes.
I did read the proposed contract and, for a commuter (regional) carrier, I thought it was not bad at all. But consider, even if it was NOT all that was wanted, would it not have been better to agree and then look for something better? The pilots with the most experience would have a good shot at the major carriers and the more junior guys would still have a job with which to gain experience and THEN look elsewhere. In addition, when pilots left, it would make room for others and, just as important, the support workers would still have a job as well. ALPA did these guys NO favors. And as for the "hope" that they were going to join the DAL seniority list, not in their lifetimes.
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The strike isn't about joining Delta's seniority list, I don't know where that came from.
It is very simple, if they used the same pay and compensation formula plus work rules that the majors pay, I am sure they would have a deal. For about 70k a year.
Comair/Delta simply want to keep running it as a slave ship. The AA/United/Continental contracts tie salary to productivity. Fly faster bigger aircraft, make more money. AA/pays 150k for a fokker 100 seater. A 50 seater could easily pay 75k with the same work rules. I am sure that that would be approved in a second.
Infact, the majors could be doing that today. That is the whole point of scope anyway.
But Delta is drawing a line in the sand that COmair will always be a slave ship. Well its a 2 billion dollar line in the sand they have drawn, and there is no guarantee that they aren't just deferring their problems. When ASA comes up there won't be another convienient carrier for them to dump off all the aircraft and routes.
Honestly, I don't think that I could safely work to FAR maximums anymore. I haven't got it in me to show up at 8 oclock at night and stay on duty for 16 hours flying 8+ legs in that period finishing at noon the next day. I would shut the company down faced with that choice as well. Better to be an ALPA martyr than a terminated for refusing to fly because I was tired commuter pilot, or worse DEAD because I made a fatigue induced mistake.
Cheers
Wino
It is very simple, if they used the same pay and compensation formula plus work rules that the majors pay, I am sure they would have a deal. For about 70k a year.
Comair/Delta simply want to keep running it as a slave ship. The AA/United/Continental contracts tie salary to productivity. Fly faster bigger aircraft, make more money. AA/pays 150k for a fokker 100 seater. A 50 seater could easily pay 75k with the same work rules. I am sure that that would be approved in a second.
Infact, the majors could be doing that today. That is the whole point of scope anyway.
But Delta is drawing a line in the sand that COmair will always be a slave ship. Well its a 2 billion dollar line in the sand they have drawn, and there is no guarantee that they aren't just deferring their problems. When ASA comes up there won't be another convienient carrier for them to dump off all the aircraft and routes.
Honestly, I don't think that I could safely work to FAR maximums anymore. I haven't got it in me to show up at 8 oclock at night and stay on duty for 16 hours flying 8+ legs in that period finishing at noon the next day. I would shut the company down faced with that choice as well. Better to be an ALPA martyr than a terminated for refusing to fly because I was tired commuter pilot, or worse DEAD because I made a fatigue induced mistake.
Cheers
Wino
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Another great victory for organized labor I suppose. Remember the picture of the IAM striker holding the Miami Herald front page showing Eastern had ceased operation? "We Won!" was the caption.
At least the young guys will be able to find jobs...
_________________________________________
Thursday, May 17, 2001
Comair cutting workers, aircraft
By James Pilcher
The Cincinnati Enquirer
After a week of threats, Comair acted Wednesday on its vow to shrink the airline if pilots didn't take a deal to end their strike.
The Erlanger-based regional carrier said it was cutting 20 more planes out of its fleet and eliminating 200 more pilot positions. It also will lay off an additional 400 non-pilot employees beginning May 29, including another 120 local workers that will be added to the 1,500 laid off this week.
In addition, Comair began canceling flights 60 days in advance. Previously, operations had been canceled 30 days in advance.
“We deeply regret the significant impact this strike is having on everyone who depends on Comair,” Comair president Randy Rademacher said in a release. “These are the difficult, but necessary, business steps we must take at this time.”...
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If COMAIR could have been better off by having their own separate union, it is hard to imagine how or why.
The COMAIR negotiators, from what I have read, are from their own MEC council. Therefore, their decisions are ultimately an internal process, and not the responsibility of national ALPA.
If any of you who have airline contracts for your pay/benefits and workrules, feel that you all would be better off without representation or a contract, please state the reasons.
Maybe a job on a blue ATI DC-8, a Connie Kalitta DC-8 ( 3 or 4 people "allegedly" having to confront the "main man" in order to convince him that 'hydraulic power to the elevator must be repaired' just before a sched heavy takeoff with very little actual pitch control-oh yes) or an Evergreen jet would be a better career than at a unionized carrier?
These and other carriers might be accepting resumes (CVs) at this time, interested in pilots who are only "mission-oriented".
[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 18 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 18 May 2001).]
The COMAIR negotiators, from what I have read, are from their own MEC council. Therefore, their decisions are ultimately an internal process, and not the responsibility of national ALPA.
If any of you who have airline contracts for your pay/benefits and workrules, feel that you all would be better off without representation or a contract, please state the reasons.
Maybe a job on a blue ATI DC-8, a Connie Kalitta DC-8 ( 3 or 4 people "allegedly" having to confront the "main man" in order to convince him that 'hydraulic power to the elevator must be repaired' just before a sched heavy takeoff with very little actual pitch control-oh yes) or an Evergreen jet would be a better career than at a unionized carrier?
These and other carriers might be accepting resumes (CVs) at this time, interested in pilots who are only "mission-oriented".
[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 18 May 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 18 May 2001).]
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I think some of you are focusing on ALPA National or the Comair pilots as the sole cause of this impasse, maybe you've been drinking a little too much of the Comair company kool-aid. Let's turn around and look at the managers who's job it is to make money for the Delta/Comair shareholders. This strike will cost the bottom line many times more than the pay, retirement and duty rigs that it would take to get Comair back to work. After this strike is over with, one way or another there will be a major housecleaning of Comair and Delta Connection management. They have made piss poor business decisions and seem determined to run the company into the ground rather than allow their pilots the opportunity to make a decent living at what has been a very profitable airline.
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That may be true, Rogaine, However, I think the Comair guys have made their point.
All ready 200 have lost their jobs. If the rest donīt bite the bullet and call this strike, (no matter how well intentioned it is) off soon, Iīm afraid there wonīt be any jobs to go back to.
Out of those 200 who were let go (I notice the word furlough wasnīt used in any news release) I wonder how many still owe the Comair Aviation Academy loan payments for their training?
Wouldnīt that be ironic? Pay for training, go on strike, lose your job, and still have to pay your old parent company back.
For What? Preferential hiring at another ALPO carrier? Get Real.
ALPO has sold these guys a bill of goods, only thing is, none of itīs any good.
[This message has been edited by DownIn3Green (edited 22 May 2001).]
All ready 200 have lost their jobs. If the rest donīt bite the bullet and call this strike, (no matter how well intentioned it is) off soon, Iīm afraid there wonīt be any jobs to go back to.
Out of those 200 who were let go (I notice the word furlough wasnīt used in any news release) I wonder how many still owe the Comair Aviation Academy loan payments for their training?
Wouldnīt that be ironic? Pay for training, go on strike, lose your job, and still have to pay your old parent company back.
For What? Preferential hiring at another ALPO carrier? Get Real.
ALPO has sold these guys a bill of goods, only thing is, none of itīs any good.
[This message has been edited by DownIn3Green (edited 22 May 2001).]
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For the longest time some of you have bitched about ALPA, not doing anything or not doing enough for the regionals, so finally they went on strike and you are accusing ALPA od selling them bad goods. Hey, the pilots wote the on the contract, not ALPA National.
Of the 200 laid off, 127 have already picked up emlpoyment at other regionals (ACA, Air Wisc, Mesa, Piedmont). Regionals right now are dying for qualified people, not saying that a new hire at Comair is qualified, but most of those guys were checked on the RJ.
Of the 200 laid off, 127 have already picked up emlpoyment at other regionals (ACA, Air Wisc, Mesa, Piedmont). Regionals right now are dying for qualified people, not saying that a new hire at Comair is qualified, but most of those guys were checked on the RJ.
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>>Now if some of the senior guys would just get picked up by the majors....<<
At commuters and freight operations many of the senior guys stayed because they couldn't get a job at the airlines, e.g. no college degree, too old or just don't "interview well". Unfortunately, a lot of these folks will never work for as much as they were making before the strike. But at least they can claim they "won" the strike...
At commuters and freight operations many of the senior guys stayed because they couldn't get a job at the airlines, e.g. no college degree, too old or just don't "interview well". Unfortunately, a lot of these folks will never work for as much as they were making before the strike. But at least they can claim they "won" the strike...
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AirBubba,
That was my point exactly. An enforcement action, no degree and a host of other reasons potentially make the older guys unemployable at the major level.
Guess they may become "mission oriented" as I believe it was alluded to in a previous post.
Very sad indeed...
That was my point exactly. An enforcement action, no degree and a host of other reasons potentially make the older guys unemployable at the major level.
Guess they may become "mission oriented" as I believe it was alluded to in a previous post.
Very sad indeed...
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The saddest part is that the rest of ALPA membership will blindly find the ComAir fate "acceptable," because it didn't happen to them - yet.
Thus, the USAIR scenarios wait to see their future at the hands of ALPA. As did Western, as did Frontier as did....
This has a methodology, if anybody wants to pay attention.
While the typical pilot correctly believes that he needs ALPA; ALPA doesn't need him - just his dues. Ask the Alaska 506 pilots, for starters.
As usual, it's all about money.
Thus, the USAIR scenarios wait to see their future at the hands of ALPA. As did Western, as did Frontier as did....
This has a methodology, if anybody wants to pay attention.
While the typical pilot correctly believes that he needs ALPA; ALPA doesn't need him - just his dues. Ask the Alaska 506 pilots, for starters.
As usual, it's all about money.
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Donīt waste your breath, Sky,
Some people never learn. How many PAA guys did UAL pick up, and in what positions?
Same for DAL with PAA.
Some get lucky, but for most itīs a dead end.
But like itīs been said previously, at least they can sleep at night knowing they "won".
Or did they?
Some people never learn. How many PAA guys did UAL pick up, and in what positions?
Same for DAL with PAA.
Some get lucky, but for most itīs a dead end.
But like itīs been said previously, at least they can sleep at night knowing they "won".
Or did they?
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>>Same for DAL with PAA.<<
Well, Delta took 783 Pan Am pilots and merged them onto the seniority list with an eleven to one ratio. Can't complain too much about that one...