"2 close calls in one week jolt O'Hare"
Join Date: Jul 2000
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In the USA the majority of guys are operating in their first language and still get into all sorts of a pickle.
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"A Delta Connection regional jet also taxied onto intersecting Runway 9 Left while it waited for a plane to depart.
A controller--who is new to O'Hare and was being trained by a veteran controller--then cleared the Lufthansa plane to take off, the FAA said."
Speaking as someone who used to operate out of O'hare on a daily basis. If the pilots would have just turned their heads before they started to roll, they could have seen the other was moving and stopped well clear of the intersection. Especially the Delta Connection jet, who would have had the Airbus in their sight just off to the right. Often O'hare controllers clear a/c holding on 9L for take off with the anticipation of the a/c on 4L to clear during their roll. This airport requires the pilots to have a little initiative and help with the daily flow of things. I remember taxing from 22L after landing all the way to the gate on a busy day without talking to a single person (expect ramp control). All because the radio was so cluttered with chatter that one could not get a word in edge wise. Not that I am condoning this behavior but at O'hare if you don't keep moving you get yelled at.
A controller--who is new to O'Hare and was being trained by a veteran controller--then cleared the Lufthansa plane to take off, the FAA said."
Speaking as someone who used to operate out of O'hare on a daily basis. If the pilots would have just turned their heads before they started to roll, they could have seen the other was moving and stopped well clear of the intersection. Especially the Delta Connection jet, who would have had the Airbus in their sight just off to the right. Often O'hare controllers clear a/c holding on 9L for take off with the anticipation of the a/c on 4L to clear during their roll. This airport requires the pilots to have a little initiative and help with the daily flow of things. I remember taxing from 22L after landing all the way to the gate on a busy day without talking to a single person (expect ramp control). All because the radio was so cluttered with chatter that one could not get a word in edge wise. Not that I am condoning this behavior but at O'hare if you don't keep moving you get yelled at.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Originally Posted by flat-tire
[B] Not that I am condoning this behavior but at O'hare if you don't keep moving you get yelled at.
Improvements need to be made, but look at how long it's taken for a new runway thanks to NIMBY opposition...don't even get me started on LAX...
TT
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I seem to remember a few years ago when I was doing the UK aerodrome course watching a TV prog about US airports. Can't remember the exact airport but they were using this 'anticipated separation' of departing a/c on cross runways. Scared the s
t out of me !! If I remember correctly, in the UK, the first departing a/c must have crossed the intersection before any subsequent a/c on perpendicular runway can be cleared for T/O. I appreciate that traffic levels may be high at places like O'Hare etc but surely this practice, as the first post highlights, is a tragedy just waiting to happen.
I'm a terminal controller now in London TMA and, judging by the amount of traffic on the tube going into into LHR, I have the utmost respect for the ground/air guy's and gal's at LHR and similar airports around the globe. As has been mentioned previously, you're only as good as the system and procedures you have to work within.
Just my thoughts,
Spamcan
t out of me !! If I remember correctly, in the UK, the first departing a/c must have crossed the intersection before any subsequent a/c on perpendicular runway can be cleared for T/O. I appreciate that traffic levels may be high at places like O'Hare etc but surely this practice, as the first post highlights, is a tragedy just waiting to happen.I'm a terminal controller now in London TMA and, judging by the amount of traffic on the tube going into into LHR, I have the utmost respect for the ground/air guy's and gal's at LHR and similar airports around the globe. As has been mentioned previously, you're only as good as the system and procedures you have to work within.
Just my thoughts,
Spamcan
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There is a grand plan to reconfigure the runways at ORD, moving away from the crossing runways to 2 sets of triple parallels and two "crosswind runways". It will take many years for this to be completed. Layout avalable here (pdf format)
Remember they have almost a million movements a year, ie more than double Heathrow and so until completion full use needs to be made of all their available assets.
LGA handles over 400,000 flights a year on just 2 crossing runways. Now that is impressive.
Traffic counts 2005
Remember they have almost a million movements a year, ie more than double Heathrow and so until completion full use needs to be made of all their available assets.
LGA handles over 400,000 flights a year on just 2 crossing runways. Now that is impressive.
Traffic counts 2005
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Saw the incident
I was on the United Express Regional next in line behind the Delta regional jet and on the correct side of the aircraft to watch the air traffic. Things were busy on that day (busier than usual at O'Hare) and the runway we were about to use (9L) was also being used for landings. The A319-ER taxiing around in the distance had a livery that I did not recognize (I later found out it was Privatair flying for Lufthansa from ORD to Dusseldorf an all business class service) so I was watching that aircraft closely.
I was in a near panic when I notice the A319 and the Delta regional both begin their takeoff roll almost simultaneously. Now, if I could see the A319, the Delta crew should have as well and agree that it probably should have been noticed sooner. Anyway, lots of speed brakes, thrust reversers and tire smoke later they were both in contol and I would dispute the 100 ft separation as being at least triple that distance. Neat nosegear contraction on the A-319.
My belief is that the Delta crew reacted before the Privatair.....wish I was listening on the tower frequency during this one.
The aircraft then taxiied to a new position, (a little slower than usual; maybe they were a bit shaken) with the Privatair A319 now a couple of aircraft behind the aircraft I was aboard.
Arriving in Atlanta, I asked my pilot his take on the "incident" and he commented it was close (perhaps too close) and his opinion at that time was controller error.
I was in a near panic when I notice the A319 and the Delta regional both begin their takeoff roll almost simultaneously. Now, if I could see the A319, the Delta crew should have as well and agree that it probably should have been noticed sooner. Anyway, lots of speed brakes, thrust reversers and tire smoke later they were both in contol and I would dispute the 100 ft separation as being at least triple that distance. Neat nosegear contraction on the A-319.
My belief is that the Delta crew reacted before the Privatair.....wish I was listening on the tower frequency during this one.The aircraft then taxiied to a new position, (a little slower than usual; maybe they were a bit shaken) with the Privatair A319 now a couple of aircraft behind the aircraft I was aboard.
Arriving in Atlanta, I asked my pilot his take on the "incident" and he commented it was close (perhaps too close) and his opinion at that time was controller error.
