Verdict on XLA B767 & bmib B737 incident at MAN
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Verdict on incident at Manchester (XLAvsWW)
You may remember a few months back a collision involving a Excel airways B767 and a bmibaby B737 at Manchester -
Well the verdict is that it was the XLA captain to blame -
What do you think?? surly there both as bad as each other, they both have eyes to look out for each other -
I don't know the whole story but can someone shed some light on it please
Thanks
Well the verdict is that it was the XLA captain to blame -
What do you think?? surly there both as bad as each other, they both have eyes to look out for each other -
I don't know the whole story but can someone shed some light on it please
Thanks
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Link to AAIB Report
The B737 commander was entitled to stop his aircraft where he did and bore no responsibility for the clearance, or lack of it, between his aircraft and any passing behind.
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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Flybeee, perhaps you should gather up as much of the "whole story" before you make silly assumptions based on a dire lack of knowledge and obviously, experience.
To comment... "surly there both as bad as each other, they both have eyes to look out for each other" just before posting... "I don't know the whole story but can someone shed some light on it please" is a sure sign of ignorance. Better to let everyone think you are a fool rather than confirm it by engaging finger to keyboard and proving it beyond any doubt.
The link to the official report is provided above and the thread on here is easily found using the search function. To save you the effort, just click on this link: Excel B767 and bmibaby B737 collision at Manchester.
To comment... "surly there both as bad as each other, they both have eyes to look out for each other" just before posting... "I don't know the whole story but can someone shed some light on it please" is a sure sign of ignorance. Better to let everyone think you are a fool rather than confirm it by engaging finger to keyboard and proving it beyond any doubt.
The link to the official report is provided above and the thread on here is easily found using the search function. To save you the effort, just click on this link: Excel B767 and bmibaby B737 collision at Manchester.
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In this case, the baby skipper has been completely exhonerated.
He was at the holding point with the park brake SET.
Please DO NOT make those types of comments without knowing the facts. You are talking about people's reputations and careers here.
He was at the holding point with the park brake SET.
Please DO NOT make those types of comments without knowing the facts. You are talking about people's reputations and careers here.
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Blame culture
Already the perfect pilots on the forum are blaming some one for this inccident, undoubtedly the B737 crew are not to blame fot this as they were stopped with the park brake set.
A number of misconseptions and time pressure led the Captain of the Air Atlanta B767 to misjudge the clearance or lack of it and remember he can't see the wing tip.
The whole thing was a bit of a storm in a tea cup but one thing that I can't understand is why modern aircraft are not fitted with lights in the wing tip that point at the ground the Lockheed Electra had them and it was a great aid to judging the path of the wing tip over the ground.
A number of misconseptions and time pressure led the Captain of the Air Atlanta B767 to misjudge the clearance or lack of it and remember he can't see the wing tip.
The whole thing was a bit of a storm in a tea cup but one thing that I can't understand is why modern aircraft are not fitted with lights in the wing tip that point at the ground the Lockheed Electra had them and it was a great aid to judging the path of the wing tip over the ground.
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s pig
You are right cameras would be cheaper than an inccident but not as cheap as spot lights pointing downwards.
The low tech simple solution is vastly cheaper in terms of maintenance and if it fails the chances of getting it fixed on a turnround are quite high.
The low tech simple solution is vastly cheaper in terms of maintenance and if it fails the chances of getting it fixed on a turnround are quite high.
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Flybeeeee - sorry you got bashed about a bit. It does happen quite a lot here.
I'm afraid that you touched a nerve and got the pointy end of a couple of sharp sticks; don't take it to heart!
As for the incident, I'm sure the XLA captain will regret it for ages, as will the many other pilots who have nudged something while taxiing, thinking that they were clear...MYT 330 in YVR springs to mind as another recent example.
There for the grace of God go an awful lot of us...we just have to be even more careful.
I'm afraid that you touched a nerve and got the pointy end of a couple of sharp sticks; don't take it to heart!
As for the incident, I'm sure the XLA captain will regret it for ages, as will the many other pilots who have nudged something while taxiing, thinking that they were clear...MYT 330 in YVR springs to mind as another recent example.
There for the grace of God go an awful lot of us...we just have to be even more careful.
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Flybeeeee: "Don't forget we all share the same hobby here and I think its disgusting you react like you have - "
Hobby? HOBBY? Sure, many of us have hobbies involving aviation but what you did has nothing to do with a hobby. You called into question the actions of PROFESSIONAL people doing a demanding job. You plainly have little knowledge of aviation and I strongly suggest that you desist from further comments to prevent causing further offence.
Hobby? HOBBY? Sure, many of us have hobbies involving aviation but what you did has nothing to do with a hobby. You called into question the actions of PROFESSIONAL people doing a demanding job. You plainly have little knowledge of aviation and I strongly suggest that you desist from further comments to prevent causing further offence.
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I'm probably being very thick, but I can't see what use spot lights pointing downwards wolud be on a 767.
If you can't see the wingtip from the flight deck, how do you expect to see the point on the ground where the 'spot of light' falls?
If you can't see the wingtip from the flight deck, how do you expect to see the point on the ground where the 'spot of light' falls?
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Lights pointing downwards and forwards would shine far enough forward that you could look out and see where the wingtip will be in a few seconds if you keep going in a straight line.
I like the idea!
I like the idea!
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Keel beam
Do you work for BA ?. A lamp change on a turnround is no problem for the airline that I work for.
Gashcan
Please get the airline correct the aircraft was on lease to XLA from Air Atlanta and it was made clear that the aircraft was leased in the AAIB report.
Gashcan
Please get the airline correct the aircraft was on lease to XLA from Air Atlanta and it was made clear that the aircraft was leased in the AAIB report.
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A & C - Yes I do work for BA. Perhaps I should expand on my comment. At a main base, then yes, a lamp change can be done during a turn round, but down the line, where manpower is at an absolute minimum combined with short turn round times, then my comment stands. The only time a lamp change would need to be done down the line is when it is out of MEL limits ( usually allied with night flights).
Can you imagine if this had happened on the railways. A train parked just off a set off points and a passing train clips the back of the parked train.
There would be no way the driver would have been blamed. The blame would, as sky9 above says, be placed fairly and squarely on the poor design of the line layout and train control system.
There would be no way the driver would have been blamed. The blame would, as sky9 above says, be placed fairly and squarely on the poor design of the line layout and train control system.
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If a 'passing train' clipped a stationary one at 90mph, it probably wouldn't entirely be the drivers fault (except 'SPADs') because train drivers can't:
a) steer
b) stop quickly.
But consider if the train driver was doing 5-10 mph in a very busy marshalling yard - I would suggest he would most definitely be at fault for proceeding where doubt existed.
The comparison is a load of b@lls anyway, for reasons a) and b) above.
Besides, I understand the report to describe quite extensively the contributory human and procedural factors concerned, as most AAIB reports do.
a) steer
b) stop quickly.
But consider if the train driver was doing 5-10 mph in a very busy marshalling yard - I would suggest he would most definitely be at fault for proceeding where doubt existed.
The comparison is a load of b@lls anyway, for reasons a) and b) above.
Besides, I understand the report to describe quite extensively the contributory human and procedural factors concerned, as most AAIB reports do.