Australian airspace unsafe
Thread Starter
Australian airspace unsafe
The rumour is that the presentation I made in Canberra last week, entitled ‘Unsafe Skies’ (see http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/book/) has the Government in quite a turmoil. There have already been questions asked about why Australian airline jets fly without proper radar control and why there are not local radio operators at airports. I suggest all PPRuNers read the presentation if planning to fly in Australia.
Last edited by Dick Smith; 1st Dec 2005 at 07:26.
Reply to Dick
Hi, an interesting post. I fly a large aircraft for an Asian carrier throughout Asia Europe and Australia. Of all the air traffic control systems I fly through, the Australian system is by far the easiest and in my opinion the safest. With data link (CPDLC), ADS and radar combined with the normal ability to use HF or VHF radio, communications and control in Australia are fast and reliable . When you add on board TCAS and GPWS2 and multiple GPS installations. Airline flying with regard to Air Traffic Control has never been safer!
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did you do a flight into an MBZ bob, sorry I mean CTAF-R? such as Ayres Rock or Karratha, with a combination of jets and lighties visually seperating themselves?
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I suggest PPruners read the threads on this under the D&G forum before they take Dick at face value.
His audience is drying up because they all know he cries wolf to get attention.
The rumour he speaks of is the one going on in his own mind.
His audience is drying up because they all know he cries wolf to get attention.
The rumour he speaks of is the one going on in his own mind.
Bottums Up
Having flown comercially for all but 12months of the last 19.5 years, the only times I have felt unsafe with our airspace is when Dick has been at the helm, or instrumental in making wholesale changes because he believes his new bastardised (the term used to indicate another system modified for Aus conditions and needs) system will be better.
He really doesn't listen to any one, nor does he understand how professional pilots interact with the system they've got, or the minutae of flying a complex high speed machine.
He really doesn't listen to any one, nor does he understand how professional pilots interact with the system they've got, or the minutae of flying a complex high speed machine.
Oh well Dick. Everyone in D & G refuses to play with you so you've decided to take your bat and ball and attempt to start playing your game somewhere else in the world. For everybody's sake just leave him ignored and sulking in a corner somewhere. Spoilt brat as far as I'm concerned.
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I suggest that anyone who reads the presentation also reads http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/c...5E3102,00.html for a bit of background as to why the Tower that he specifically refers to is not there.
Having worked in the Australian aviation sector for close on 30 years in a number of roles including management and federal government, I will say here that I concur with the previous posts.
Further information including much refuting the allegations made in the document and presentation can be found on the D&G forum here.
Further information including much refuting the allegations made in the document and presentation can be found on the D&G forum here.
Thread Starter
bob_bowne, I agree in flying in enroute airspace at the flight levels and also into our major airports we have stock standard international airspace. You may not realise that we have 170 passenger jet aircraft flying into uncontrolled airspace where the pilots ‘call in the blind’ to arrange their own separation – even when in radar coverage.
I suggest you have a look at the link to the Unsafe Skies presentation (http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/book/) and study it carefully before the Airservices Australia people have this thread deleted.
Many people in Australia don’t want the international community to know just how backward we are when it comes to low level airspace. Bob, I think you would agree that 24 fatalities from professional flight crews in 13 months, all in Controlled Flight Into Terrain accidents, is a pretty sad record.
I suggest you have a look at the link to the Unsafe Skies presentation (http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/book/) and study it carefully before the Airservices Australia people have this thread deleted.
Many people in Australia don’t want the international community to know just how backward we are when it comes to low level airspace. Bob, I think you would agree that 24 fatalities from professional flight crews in 13 months, all in Controlled Flight Into Terrain accidents, is a pretty sad record.
Bottums Up
Dick,
Why your obsession with Proserpine?
What about the 150+ seat jets that fly into AYQ (YAYE) without radar?
Radar would be lovely but unlikely. It's quite safe because we have a sound system in place. One where directed traffic is given.
The problems occur when you push your VFR no radio/don't talk system, so that we can't be reasonably sure we know where all the traffic is.
Sheesh.
Why your obsession with Proserpine?
What about the 150+ seat jets that fly into AYQ (YAYE) without radar?
Radar would be lovely but unlikely. It's quite safe because we have a sound system in place. One where directed traffic is given.
The problems occur when you push your VFR no radio/don't talk system, so that we can't be reasonably sure we know where all the traffic is.
Sheesh.
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It is his way or the highway
and this is what he thinks of those that disagree with him
My favourite part was when he thought he would point out that Proserpine had no tower but actually presided over the comitee that made it disappear. Nice work.
and this is what he thinks of those that disagree with him
My favourite part was when he thought he would point out that Proserpine had no tower but actually presided over the comitee that made it disappear. Nice work.
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Dick, I am just watching this is your life.......... dont suppose you stood up for the pilots at QF, who along with the Engineers have made it a fairly good airline.... all I have seen so far is management basking in the Glory of QFs reputation.
and study it carefully before the Airservices Australia people have this thread deleted.
Or maybe the Unions are responsible this time.
Do you hear voices too?
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Airservices Australia, nor anyone else will not have this thread deleted, that is not how this site runs. We've adopted a deliberate editorial policy to let the debate on Australian airspace reform run in here when it arises as well as in D and G, in parallel if necessary, to raise awareness of the issue amongst pilots the World over.
Lose the personal attacks please, if you must address something Mr Smith has written or spoken about then please do so by addressing the argument only, and keep any references to past issues respectful and relevant. D and G is a bit looser editorially, (it has to be or it would end up like herding cats!) but keep this one on track please.
Squid
Lose the personal attacks please, if you must address something Mr Smith has written or spoken about then please do so by addressing the argument only, and keep any references to past issues respectful and relevant. D and G is a bit looser editorially, (it has to be or it would end up like herding cats!) but keep this one on track please.
Squid
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Mr Smith claims that 15 people died in a CFIT that could have been prevented with radar. What he doesn't tell you is that the aircraft these poor people were flying in was not covered by radar, like much of the Australian continent.
His claims are based onhalf truths.
His claims are based onhalf truths.
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Sick Squid
Thanks for that,
neither has there been nor would there be any attempt by the people at Airservices Australia to apply any influence for or against on the PPRuNe Dunnunda and Godzone Forum either.
Mr Smiths suggestion that they could or would is totally unfounded, untrue, scurrilous, mischievous and would in my Forum be challenged if not deleted and the poster banned.
He skates on very thin ice.
I would also draw PPRuNers attention to the Air Safety Alert by the Voices of Reason, published here which provides a proper balance to the matters involved.
I have also posted a warning in regard to the following of links in general from PPRuNe.
Australian Airspace is NOT unsafe.
It may have had the potential to be so, had not the industry and airspace experts with some encouragement from PPRuNers, not acted to directly mitigate and divert the latest planned 2c implementation based on dodgy ideology and a spurious safety case driven by Mr Smith and his cohort.
The changes refferred to above took the form of a 52 page AIP Supplement H51/05 to correct and clarify the originally published and disseminated documents.
Cheers
Woomera
Thanks for that,
neither has there been nor would there be any attempt by the people at Airservices Australia to apply any influence for or against on the PPRuNe Dunnunda and Godzone Forum either.Mr Smiths suggestion that they could or would is totally unfounded, untrue, scurrilous, mischievous and would in my Forum be challenged if not deleted and the poster banned.
He skates on very thin ice.
I would also draw PPRuNers attention to the Air Safety Alert by the Voices of Reason, published here which provides a proper balance to the matters involved.
I have also posted a warning in regard to the following of links in general from PPRuNe.
Australian Airspace is NOT unsafe.
It may have had the potential to be so, had not the industry and airspace experts with some encouragement from PPRuNers, not acted to directly mitigate and divert the latest planned 2c implementation based on dodgy ideology and a spurious safety case driven by Mr Smith and his cohort.
The changes refferred to above took the form of a 52 page AIP Supplement H51/05 to correct and clarify the originally published and disseminated documents.
Cheers
Woomera
Last edited by Woomera; 1st Dec 2005 at 10:31.
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Generally speaking it is safe, its just unfortunate that noise control at major airports takes priority over safety and common sense, and that at MBZ/CTAF(R)s we have big jets mixing it with bug smashers with no appropriate radar.
Radar will be implemented at these various locations after a media beat up with a near miss or actual mid-air. Its the only way it will occur, this was demonstrated in Launceston. The blatantly obvious accidents to be, are only acted upon as an after event.
I am not sure if its Dicks doing, but he certainly doesnt appear to be campaigning for radar implementation or possibly the next best thing ADS-B.
Radar will be implemented at these various locations after a media beat up with a near miss or actual mid-air. Its the only way it will occur, this was demonstrated in Launceston. The blatantly obvious accidents to be, are only acted upon as an after event.
I am not sure if its Dicks doing, but he certainly doesnt appear to be campaigning for radar implementation or possibly the next best thing ADS-B.