Nice 25 Oct
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Nice 25 Oct
Last tuesday morning 25/10 (approx 0900 UTC) I was at the holding point for 04R at Nice. The aircraft ahead was an N-registered, white body 737(probably corporate). He was cleared for takeoff, commenced his takeoff roll and appeared to be well on the way when ATC said 'takeoff clearance cancelled' or words to that effect. He aborted takeoff and asked for the reason a number of times without response. He was then told to clear the runway and go to ground. There was single runway operation at the time so the aircraft on finals had to be sent around.
Does anyone know why his takeoff clearance was cancelled at that late stage?
Does anyone know why his takeoff clearance was cancelled at that late stage?
Considering this question comes from a professional who can gauge that the take-off clearance was cancelled well into the roll, I as ATC would also be very curious to know why. Consequently, the above two answers are weak and immature! Furthermore, with an iminent departure, I would imagine omega had more important things to do than tune in to ground.
Evasan and JW411 : nul points
Evasan and JW411 : nul points
There are a million good reasons why someone wanted that aircraft kept on the ground and I think it is you who is showing a degree of naiveté.
Someone in authority wanted that aircraft stopped and that is what happened.
Perhaps they hadn't paid the parking fees!
Someone in authority wanted that aircraft stopped and that is what happened.
Perhaps they hadn't paid the parking fees!
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Tower better have a DAMN GOOD reason for this stunt.
I have heard of airlines with a "sterile cockpit" protocol who intentionally turn down the rx audio at throttle advance and don't turn it back up until gear is up, simply to keep focused on the job at hand.
I have heard of airlines with a "sterile cockpit" protocol who intentionally turn down the rx audio at throttle advance and don't turn it back up until gear is up, simply to keep focused on the job at hand.
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As reported by a colleague who was there at the time, the wonderful Nice controllers told Chuck in the Corporate to "Expedite Take Off! " as he was already rolling.
Chuck, quite rightly, queries this and thinks there is a problem stops. Report over.
Chuck, quite rightly, queries this and thinks there is a problem stops. Report over.
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Its clear form his question that omega is a concerned proffesional asking questions as indeed I would had i witnessed something clearly unusual. In his situation I would do the same. Like every other proffesional pilot should do if I see something out of the ordinary I ask why, as that is what keeps me and my SLF alive!!
JW411 you must be related to the other idiot with a similar call sign!!
JW411 you must be related to the other idiot with a similar call sign!!
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I have heard of airlines with a "sterile cockpit" protocol who intentionally turn down the rx audio at throttle advance and don't turn it back up until gear is up, simply to keep focused on the job at hand.
Back to topic, NCE has always been a bit of a special airport. ATC are known to issue strange clearances and their situational awareness of isnīt always the best resulting in lousy radar vectors. To make matters worse itīs your typical French airport, so that means lotīs of bla bla in French to helicopters buzzing just south of the runway axis below 500ī.
All the above, combined with the high terrain surrounding the airport and the sometimes violent weather makes it a nice recipe for disaster.
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So was it 'take off clearance cancelled' or 'expedite take off' ?? They are hardly similar!
(what the hell could 'expedite take off' mean once you had started the take off roll??????????).
(what the hell could 'expedite take off' mean once you had started the take off roll??????????).
Ut Sementem Feeceris
I concur with everything Doug the Head says. Anyone familar with Nice would also appreciate that the consequences of botched reject at Nice would result in the aircraft going straight into the sea.
On the whole the ATC at Nice is ok, but on more than one occasion I've been left in the lurch and then "cleared for a visual" - in other words, whoops - sort it out yourself
A4
On the whole the ATC at Nice is ok, but on more than one occasion I've been left in the lurch and then "cleared for a visual" - in other words, whoops - sort it out yourself
A4
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I have had take off clearance cancelled at the last minute and told to return to stand at Nice ! It was at the request of Customs who are renowned at Nice for trying to claim VAT (TVA?) on Foreign registered Corporate aircraft operating in EU ! After sitting with both engines running the customs decided to turn up and inspect required paperwork, and then go back to there shed disappointed. I know of aircraft impounded at Nice without proper paperwork !!
ATP
ATP
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As reported by a colleague who was there at the time, the wonderful Nice controllers told Chuck in the Corporate to "Expedite Take Off! " as he was already rolling.
Then it's the end of the story, but anyway ... I sort of agree with the nosey bugger thing ! If there's something wrong with the ATC, there are some more official channels than this journos-infested web site.
In answer to all the Blahblah about stopping or not or ending up in the water, I think it's pretty much straighforward : below V1 you stop and after... And the ATC did not ask him to stop he did it on his own ( or so I read above).
And now to all those who are unhappy about the Nice ATC I suggest you come to visit us sometimes...We have to deal every day with some environmental limitations that somehow designed the procedures and I could give you a few examples of troubles it gives us but I think this is not the place.
Now I agree that Nice is a very special airport in its configuration close to town and mountains. And that is why crews should be prepared for it which is obviously not always the case and I personnaly think that the use of Nice should be restricted and linked to a special qualification and not only preparation.
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So it looks as if someone who wasn't there has better info than the one supposed to be at the holding point !
And the ATC did not ask him to stop he did it on his own
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Eva San.
The problem with Nice is like the rest of France you conduct most of your ATC in French, instead of Standard English !! If as you say the ATC told him to expedite his take off, it was in such bad English that 'Chuck' didn't understnd the non standard instruction !! You guys had probaly spoken to A/C on final in French so the guy had no mental picture as to what was going on ?????? I suggest you people at Nice go and learn English and then use it ?????????It would help improve safety at nice a lot !
ATP
The problem with Nice is like the rest of France you conduct most of your ATC in French, instead of Standard English !! If as you say the ATC told him to expedite his take off, it was in such bad English that 'Chuck' didn't understnd the non standard instruction !! You guys had probaly spoken to A/C on final in French so the guy had no mental picture as to what was going on ?????? I suggest you people at Nice go and learn English and then use it ?????????It would help improve safety at nice a lot !
ATP
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The knock on effect of that, is when French Light GA pilots fly around English speaking areas, many of them are just barely able to speak ATC English. Anything else and they don't understand.
Experienced this on many occasions from a controller's side (without radar to assist) not good.
Experienced this on many occasions from a controller's side (without radar to assist) not good.