The Ryanair 5 - click here to support our demoted captains
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The Ryanair 5 - click here to support our demoted captains
I would ask all pilots to read this tale of a(nother) gross injustice perpetrated by Ryanair.
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/013579.html
IF you agree, then perhaps you could add a message of support to keep this thread high up on the Bulletin Board.
Spread the word. DEPs = beware of the Charleroi base!!!!!
Your support will be appreciated. Thank you!
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/013579.html
IF you agree, then perhaps you could add a message of support to keep this thread high up on the Bulletin Board.
Spread the word. DEPs = beware of the Charleroi base!!!!!
Your support will be appreciated. Thank you!
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Interesting.
Still doesn't stop those who can only see $$$ falling over themselves for jobs.
Seems to me that the only winners at FR are the Company, with many shortcuts to profit funded by the employees.
What about the STN carpark pass hot potato?
Successful they certainly are but who can deny that they are a totally gash and scrappy operation (no offence to the many hard working professionals on their staff), however shiny their 738's are.
As for the wallies who save a few quid only to be dropped off miles from the supposed destination, what can I say????
[This message has been edited by Nacaduck (edited 27 April 2001).]
Still doesn't stop those who can only see $$$ falling over themselves for jobs.
Seems to me that the only winners at FR are the Company, with many shortcuts to profit funded by the employees.
What about the STN carpark pass hot potato?
Successful they certainly are but who can deny that they are a totally gash and scrappy operation (no offence to the many hard working professionals on their staff), however shiny their 738's are.
As for the wallies who save a few quid only to be dropped off miles from the supposed destination, what can I say????
[This message has been edited by Nacaduck (edited 27 April 2001).]
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Sorry all british pilots but it seems to me that your union BALPA (actually I donīt know if Ryanair pilots are members) is totally bo***ks. They donīt do anything about anything. Are they absolutely spineless (or are they getting extra cash from the companies). I donīt know but you pilots should consider changing the board of your union, anyone with dignity and some balls.
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Hi guys, why do you stay on? There are enough jobs around Europe. May I suggest a career as Direct Entry Captain/First Officer or Conract Pilot. Check out www.cockpitforum.com and you will be on your way.
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I guess I miss the logic of the complaint. If an employee is paid a shift premium for working nights, and then moves to days, he should lose the premium -- no? If a pilot receives a premium for living in a high cost area -- then transfers to a low cost area -- he should lose the premium. Obviously, this depends on the premium being identified as such in the original contract.
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Nice one P Jacobsen - what a professional website you're recommending there! I especially like the home made graphics, and the way that the dodgy built in Javascript launches error messages all over my screen before it crashes my browser altogether. You might want to sort that out a bit, before you try to blag any more free advertising ... might give people the wrong impression you know.
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Luke SkyToddler - accurate comments.
I don't know what gives Mr Jocobsen the right to criticise the Ryanair pilots. I understand he works for GO! Hardly any higher than FR in the "employer desirability" table!
Final comment - I'm surprised that there is not more support for the 5, from other Ryanair pilots. Don't they have access to the internet?
[This message has been edited by FO Nigetrussoxide (edited 28 April 2001).]
I don't know what gives Mr Jocobsen the right to criticise the Ryanair pilots. I understand he works for GO! Hardly any higher than FR in the "employer desirability" table!
Final comment - I'm surprised that there is not more support for the 5, from other Ryanair pilots. Don't they have access to the internet?
[This message has been edited by FO Nigetrussoxide (edited 28 April 2001).]
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I think the whole deal is preposterous. FR are finally showing themselves to be a real bad operation with this one.
The consequences of this are dire for all concerned and beyond. FR cannot be trusted it seems.
Save a few quid here a few quid there.A bit saved on salaries, a bit saved on taxy times, a bit saved somewhere else.......do they cut corners on their fleet too?
And whoever it was who was saying that they have missed the point.......does it say in FR contracts that XXX amount of salary is a subsistence allowance for being based somewhere? If not, then it would appear illegal to me to reduce salaries at a different base.
Michael O Leary said that effectively these new Commanders were getting a pay rise for going to CRL. Yeah, they are, but not as a reflection of basing, but because of RANK. To suggest almost as he did that they should be grateful is a disgrace. These Men and Women (?) deserve all our support and backing.
REMEMBER, THIS COULD HAPPEN TO OTHERS TOO. DO NOT ACCEPT OFFERS OF ANYTHING FROM FR IF YOU ARE IN ANY POSITION TO DO SO.
I don't work there, and I am glad I don't.Disgraceful behaviour.
So, O Leary, go back to your farm (or is it a camp site-if you know what I mean?) in the country and rethink your strategy.You should learn you cannot treat people like this.
The consequences of this are dire for all concerned and beyond. FR cannot be trusted it seems.
Save a few quid here a few quid there.A bit saved on salaries, a bit saved on taxy times, a bit saved somewhere else.......do they cut corners on their fleet too?
And whoever it was who was saying that they have missed the point.......does it say in FR contracts that XXX amount of salary is a subsistence allowance for being based somewhere? If not, then it would appear illegal to me to reduce salaries at a different base.
Michael O Leary said that effectively these new Commanders were getting a pay rise for going to CRL. Yeah, they are, but not as a reflection of basing, but because of RANK. To suggest almost as he did that they should be grateful is a disgrace. These Men and Women (?) deserve all our support and backing.
REMEMBER, THIS COULD HAPPEN TO OTHERS TOO. DO NOT ACCEPT OFFERS OF ANYTHING FROM FR IF YOU ARE IN ANY POSITION TO DO SO.
I don't work there, and I am glad I don't.Disgraceful behaviour.
So, O Leary, go back to your farm (or is it a camp site-if you know what I mean?) in the country and rethink your strategy.You should learn you cannot treat people like this.
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I wish to extend my support and sympathies to the 5 that are being maltreated.
Are IALPA (Ryanair Local Group at least) considering an all out strike? Ryanair will continue to treat their pilots in this fashion, unless the management are given a clear message that this treatment is totally unacceptable. I hope that senior members of the pilots get deeply involved with this, and it doesn't end up being a case of 'i'm alright jack'
For the members of the 'Pilot Group' you may be interested to know that during a meeting of another (now defunct) company . Two members of your management team where present recruiting direct entry Captains for the CRL base. It was made apparent that the 'pilot agreement' was just to keep the 'boys' happy, and does not apply to the likes of FR management.
If you join FR at least you know of their reputation and what to expect.
Again to the 5 in the middle my sympathies, and I hope those around you pull together to sort out this injustice.
Are IALPA (Ryanair Local Group at least) considering an all out strike? Ryanair will continue to treat their pilots in this fashion, unless the management are given a clear message that this treatment is totally unacceptable. I hope that senior members of the pilots get deeply involved with this, and it doesn't end up being a case of 'i'm alright jack'
For the members of the 'Pilot Group' you may be interested to know that during a meeting of another (now defunct) company . Two members of your management team where present recruiting direct entry Captains for the CRL base. It was made apparent that the 'pilot agreement' was just to keep the 'boys' happy, and does not apply to the likes of FR management.
If you join FR at least you know of their reputation and what to expect.
Again to the 5 in the middle my sympathies, and I hope those around you pull together to sort out this injustice.
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Myk Hunt,
That's the problem, only a few of the Ryanair pilots are members of the British Pilots' Union (Balpa). Ryanair is staffed mainly by Irish pilots, some of whom are members of an Irish Pilots' Union and it also has many pilots from foreign countries who are only too glad to earn some hard currency.
The strength of any Union lies entirely with its members. If 100% of the Ryanair pilots belonged to the same union and threatened industrial action over this issue, it would have been sorted out in 10 minutes.
As it always is with pilots, selfishness + no balls = no progress. But at least they will enjoy 'flying aeroplanes', the main requisite of so many of my colleagues. In my case, I passed through this stage many years ago and my main requirement now is, to quote a retired pilot, 'Ģ notes, and lots of them!"
That's the problem, only a few of the Ryanair pilots are members of the British Pilots' Union (Balpa). Ryanair is staffed mainly by Irish pilots, some of whom are members of an Irish Pilots' Union and it also has many pilots from foreign countries who are only too glad to earn some hard currency.
The strength of any Union lies entirely with its members. If 100% of the Ryanair pilots belonged to the same union and threatened industrial action over this issue, it would have been sorted out in 10 minutes.
As it always is with pilots, selfishness + no balls = no progress. But at least they will enjoy 'flying aeroplanes', the main requisite of so many of my colleagues. In my case, I passed through this stage many years ago and my main requirement now is, to quote a retired pilot, 'Ģ notes, and lots of them!"
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It appears this is all down to timing. If the 5 were informed of the reduced allowance before they went then it's legal. If, as it appears, they were led to expect the normal rate then had the rug pulled, it wasn't and they should get a lawyer.
Having said that, all of them are on much more than me but that's life!
Having said that, all of them are on much more than me but that's life!
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Genghis,
Balpa wrote 6 days ago to their Ryanair membership. Their views on the basing, paycuts and the contracts were unequivocal and didn't exactly toe the O'Leary line.....
------------------
Regards from the Towers
[email protected]
Balpa wrote 6 days ago to their Ryanair membership. Their views on the basing, paycuts and the contracts were unequivocal and didn't exactly toe the O'Leary line.....
------------------
Regards from the Towers
[email protected]
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Many thanks for all the support. It's very welcome.
For the record, support from other FR pilots is excellent. (after 6 sector days, surfing the net, even the excellent PPRuNe site is lowish on the priority list!) In particular from the next in line FO's who see the writing on the wall for them.
Also for the record, both IALPA/IMPACT and BALPA have been supportive. Detailed legal advice has been obtained and is being evaluated.
For the record, support from other FR pilots is excellent. (after 6 sector days, surfing the net, even the excellent PPRuNe site is lowish on the priority list!) In particular from the next in line FO's who see the writing on the wall for them.
Also for the record, both IALPA/IMPACT and BALPA have been supportive. Detailed legal advice has been obtained and is being evaluated.
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I abhor Ryanairs treatment of these new commanders. Firstly the underhand method of trying to slip in new pay scales and conditions and secondly the demotions when they would not accept. In fact no reasonable Pilot could accept the contract offered. Accept a 20% salary cut followed by a proviso that Ryanair can transfer you to any other base at short notice. No way.
Also I would like to make a few home truths known to prospective employees. The salary the company advertises is well and truly overstated. Crewing levels are so low that annual leave is almost impossible to obtain. In fact at the moment is impossible to obtain. Depending on Fleet, the -200 fleet has overnights, they are compulsory. Because there are no -800 bases outside STN they are not an issue there yet, but they will come. The Pension scheme, forget it and buy a piggy bank. The Loss of licence insurance offered is second rate only offers limited protection. The nice picture that you will be presented by personnel of work within the company you can forget. Its hectic, Unless its stated in black and white in your working conditions/contract that Ryanair cannot do something, they will do it. In fact anything that is a grey area in Ryanair conditions. contracts will be interpreted by the company as they feel like. If you are considering signing a contract, DO NOT BELIEVE FOR A SECOND assurances from personnel of, Oh dont mind that, we are changing that, or that does not happen in real life. If its there Ryanair will do it.
Your family, personal situation, what you want, the possibility you might resign in protest, word of mouth promises mean nothing to Ryanair. They will do with you, base you, pay you, treat you as they wish. Be careful what you sign.
The working days are long, there is no, YES NO, space for a meal break, a smoke, a breather away from the flight deck. You are attached to the flight deck for your full day, the only breather for the lenght of you shift is the walk around. You bring you sambo/food and gobble it on the hoof. Yes four or six sectors, no break. The turnaround may even be shorter than 25 mins if you are late inbound and have light loads.
Yes the flying is 900 hours a year, 100 hours a month. Looks good, three months off!!!! does not work like that Chaps. When you run out of hours, you time is alloted in terms of firstly, annual leave imposed by the company or training or then time off in that order. In fact you time off is not as such, its called "STANDY NOT AVAILABLE". What this means is, if they find a spot where you slip back into hours for an hour or two, they will summon you to fly for that. So you dont get 3 months off. Forget that one.
The crew controllers/Ops people are grossly over worked, over stressed and have a next to impossible task to carry out the miracle of the loaves and fishes every day to crew everything. So you will be asked to work on your day off, its not compulsory, but its a black mark to refuse. Not from Ops, they are doing their job, but from the management they have to answer to. You may be accused of "un co-operative behaviour".
There is a view from the playing pitch, dont accept second rate, read you contract and conditions of employment carefully, tackle personnel and get same amended if you see anything you dont like. Remember its your quality of life, you career. Think twice, look hard. Sector pay is earned with your sweat and effort, its not a gift from the company.
Also I would like to make a few home truths known to prospective employees. The salary the company advertises is well and truly overstated. Crewing levels are so low that annual leave is almost impossible to obtain. In fact at the moment is impossible to obtain. Depending on Fleet, the -200 fleet has overnights, they are compulsory. Because there are no -800 bases outside STN they are not an issue there yet, but they will come. The Pension scheme, forget it and buy a piggy bank. The Loss of licence insurance offered is second rate only offers limited protection. The nice picture that you will be presented by personnel of work within the company you can forget. Its hectic, Unless its stated in black and white in your working conditions/contract that Ryanair cannot do something, they will do it. In fact anything that is a grey area in Ryanair conditions. contracts will be interpreted by the company as they feel like. If you are considering signing a contract, DO NOT BELIEVE FOR A SECOND assurances from personnel of, Oh dont mind that, we are changing that, or that does not happen in real life. If its there Ryanair will do it.
Your family, personal situation, what you want, the possibility you might resign in protest, word of mouth promises mean nothing to Ryanair. They will do with you, base you, pay you, treat you as they wish. Be careful what you sign.
The working days are long, there is no, YES NO, space for a meal break, a smoke, a breather away from the flight deck. You are attached to the flight deck for your full day, the only breather for the lenght of you shift is the walk around. You bring you sambo/food and gobble it on the hoof. Yes four or six sectors, no break. The turnaround may even be shorter than 25 mins if you are late inbound and have light loads.
Yes the flying is 900 hours a year, 100 hours a month. Looks good, three months off!!!! does not work like that Chaps. When you run out of hours, you time is alloted in terms of firstly, annual leave imposed by the company or training or then time off in that order. In fact you time off is not as such, its called "STANDY NOT AVAILABLE". What this means is, if they find a spot where you slip back into hours for an hour or two, they will summon you to fly for that. So you dont get 3 months off. Forget that one.
The crew controllers/Ops people are grossly over worked, over stressed and have a next to impossible task to carry out the miracle of the loaves and fishes every day to crew everything. So you will be asked to work on your day off, its not compulsory, but its a black mark to refuse. Not from Ops, they are doing their job, but from the management they have to answer to. You may be accused of "un co-operative behaviour".
There is a view from the playing pitch, dont accept second rate, read you contract and conditions of employment carefully, tackle personnel and get same amended if you see anything you dont like. Remember its your quality of life, you career. Think twice, look hard. Sector pay is earned with your sweat and effort, its not a gift from the company.
