Judas Balpa CC at EZY!
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The Judas was allegedly the CC rep from Liverpool. It is curious that many of the Balpa pilots seem to think his behavior acceptable, but may be I am just being old fashioned.
Back in 1998/99 easyJet were calculating sector pay for pilots based on an average of 438 sectors per year, but by the year 2000 this had crept up to an average of 470 sectors per year. Now it is something like 600 per annum in order that the company can get their 900 hours per year that they want out of each pilot. Now I know that some of the Balpa defenders are going to say words to the effect, "You see, without Balpa representing you, the terms and conditions would be much worse at easyJet...." but my question to them is, "How much worse could it be?!" We are already working 900 hours per year as it is and for good measure Balpa have negotiated away our loyalty bonus in favour of a profit bonus, another con.
Add this to the negotiating away of the week's leave per year for some mythical good deal about extra guaranteed days off and you can see why the pilots won't join Balpa. Believe me guys, it does not get much worse than this. The only reason why some of us stay with the company is the money which is ample, but money ain't everything and I have not free time to spend it, i am always getting up at 4.30 in the morning to go to work it seems. Shortly I will voting with my feet like so many of our former colleagues, just have to find the right job first.
Back in 1998/99 easyJet were calculating sector pay for pilots based on an average of 438 sectors per year, but by the year 2000 this had crept up to an average of 470 sectors per year. Now it is something like 600 per annum in order that the company can get their 900 hours per year that they want out of each pilot. Now I know that some of the Balpa defenders are going to say words to the effect, "You see, without Balpa representing you, the terms and conditions would be much worse at easyJet...." but my question to them is, "How much worse could it be?!" We are already working 900 hours per year as it is and for good measure Balpa have negotiated away our loyalty bonus in favour of a profit bonus, another con.
Add this to the negotiating away of the week's leave per year for some mythical good deal about extra guaranteed days off and you can see why the pilots won't join Balpa. Believe me guys, it does not get much worse than this. The only reason why some of us stay with the company is the money which is ample, but money ain't everything and I have not free time to spend it, i am always getting up at 4.30 in the morning to go to work it seems. Shortly I will voting with my feet like so many of our former colleagues, just have to find the right job first.
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.GSL has deleted his reply....
Sorta.... when so many people wont let the FACTS get in the way of a good sh!t stir.
The only reason the CC cant get a better deal, is because so many apathetic types think 90% union membership doesnt scare management. Which union it is dont matter!
Look at the evidence!
Who has the most lucrative pilot contracts? The pilots who stick together, not the ones busy maligning their colleagues
Sorta.... when so many people wont let the FACTS get in the way of a good sh!t stir.
The only reason the CC cant get a better deal, is because so many apathetic types think 90% union membership doesnt scare management. Which union it is dont matter!
Look at the evidence!
Who has the most lucrative pilot contracts? The pilots who stick together, not the ones busy maligning their colleagues
Last edited by outofsynch; 19th Jul 2005 at 19:55.
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The loyalty bonus for FO's has GONE!!!!! Given (negotiated) away. To quote from the Balpa Bulletin Board at the time (from certain members of the then CC) "There's only so much available and it's for Captains" & somethong along the line of "who gives a flying ***** what the FOs want, you'll all get quick commands...". Both posts subsequently removed after indignant replies by peeved FOs. Well the quick commands seem to have dried up (at least on the Being) so now what? With no loyalty bonus the FOs now take home a substantial amount less than before - but thats okay I suppose as long as the Captains are alright!!! Bo!!ocks I say!! And for info I voted against all the pay deals despite constant hounding by text from Balpa to say yes.
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For me it's not about the money......
I would like to see the company make a real effort to give us a real choice to stay with the airline.
Instead of a payrise in september they should improve the pension and improve the leave system and even start to introduce some kind of seniority system.
We now have over 1100 pilots instead of 280 when I joined....offcourse there's going to be trouble with bidding for leave!
E.g. is it still acceptable for someone who has upgraded and had to move from his base to go back on a waitinglist to return to his base of preference after a lot of new joiners with a transfer request have gone first??? These situations make you think.....
sh!t they really don't care if I stay or leave!
That is where the company is heavily mistaken......there maybe enough pilots available now but in the future that might not be the case and than it gets very expensive to keep your pilots!!
Don't get me wrong I am pretty orange but I have found myself in a position where I looked, what has easy got to offer for the future besides money?....what is going to give me the real job satisfaction in the future? I am sorry to say that I feel easy is more than happy to replace me anytime and any extra effort is not being noted anymore as we have lost the big picture.....
I would like to see the company make a real effort to give us a real choice to stay with the airline.
Instead of a payrise in september they should improve the pension and improve the leave system and even start to introduce some kind of seniority system.
We now have over 1100 pilots instead of 280 when I joined....offcourse there's going to be trouble with bidding for leave!
E.g. is it still acceptable for someone who has upgraded and had to move from his base to go back on a waitinglist to return to his base of preference after a lot of new joiners with a transfer request have gone first??? These situations make you think.....
sh!t they really don't care if I stay or leave!
That is where the company is heavily mistaken......there maybe enough pilots available now but in the future that might not be the case and than it gets very expensive to keep your pilots!!
Don't get me wrong I am pretty orange but I have found myself in a position where I looked, what has easy got to offer for the future besides money?....what is going to give me the real job satisfaction in the future? I am sorry to say that I feel easy is more than happy to replace me anytime and any extra effort is not being noted anymore as we have lost the big picture.....
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headbutt
Your quotes are garbage! You have taken 2 or 3 words from what was said on a BB and added you own nonsense to completely distort the fact. Why on earth would you want do such a thing?
Further more, the posts are still there, they have never been removed. Just put in the effort to find them.
The FOs' loyalty bonus was NOT negotiated away. After mnay hard battles the Captains' loyatly bonus was SAVED - spot the difference. The company was hell - bent on dirching the lot and only hard talk saved part of it.
Would have preferred the lot to go perhaps? Well pal, without Balpa I can absolutley assure that would be the case right now.
Wake up and see that in this 'wonderful, modern age' we spend a lot of or time fighting to even keep the status quo, let alone try and improve matters.
If you really voted against ALL the pay deals, you are firmly in the minority, and I suspect you seek something that is just not available and you might like to reconsider you chosen career path!!
Your quotes are garbage! You have taken 2 or 3 words from what was said on a BB and added you own nonsense to completely distort the fact. Why on earth would you want do such a thing?
Further more, the posts are still there, they have never been removed. Just put in the effort to find them.
The FOs' loyalty bonus was NOT negotiated away. After mnay hard battles the Captains' loyatly bonus was SAVED - spot the difference. The company was hell - bent on dirching the lot and only hard talk saved part of it.
Would have preferred the lot to go perhaps? Well pal, without Balpa I can absolutley assure that would be the case right now.
Wake up and see that in this 'wonderful, modern age' we spend a lot of or time fighting to even keep the status quo, let alone try and improve matters.
If you really voted against ALL the pay deals, you are firmly in the minority, and I suspect you seek something that is just not available and you might like to reconsider you chosen career path!!
FlapsOne,
The post Headbutt refers to, was regarding F/O sector pay compared to SCCMs sector pay. The reply was exactly along the lines Headbutt describes. As a Captain I thought the reply was a disgrace and it is the nearest I have been to resigning from Balpa. The post was later edited to remove the offending words.
The post Headbutt refers to, was regarding F/O sector pay compared to SCCMs sector pay. The reply was exactly along the lines Headbutt describes. As a Captain I thought the reply was a disgrace and it is the nearest I have been to resigning from Balpa. The post was later edited to remove the offending words.
Oleo,
Somebody who is not on the committee anymore. I did not resign because I gave him the benefit of the doubt, due to the very high workload of the committee and the high levels of stress that would have been involved.
Somebody who is not on the committee anymore. I did not resign because I gave him the benefit of the doubt, due to the very high workload of the committee and the high levels of stress that would have been involved.
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"who gives a flying ***** what the FOs want, you'll all get quick commands..."
"There's only so much available and it's for Captains"
I know exactly what was said in the original posting on the BB, and it certainly wasn't that.
From the first sentence the words "FOs" and "commands" were used - the rest is total BS!
The second sentence is equally nonsense.
If you want to quote, do it accurately or not at all.
Personally I cant see what all the fuss is about!
We get a good wage each month, good predictable days off, we have a CC that DOES give a FF about T & C's and work hard on our behalf. Nice aircraft, nice crews and despite the increased size, we still have a laugh at work.
People moan about a career airline - a career is a step up from FO to Captain. There may now be a waiting list but there arent any shortages of spaces. Yes, some delays which is a pain for the individuals but not a cause to throw teddy out of cot. A career is then into the training department. If thats what you want then fine, but the percentage of trainers to pilots (airlines everywhere) is small. So why not chill out and go to work, do your stuff and take the money.
If you dont like it leave. There ARE plenty of jobs available - do it dont blab about it, its boring and tiresome.
There are PLENTY of things that can be done to improve our lot, a lot at little cost to the Company. But those of you that have been around a bit will know that ALL, yes ALL, companies are the same.
I had a little exchange of words with a Thompson Fly captain not long ago. A bit of banter after he called himself easy. He said he'd been with easy for 5 years and difficult to get out of the habit of callsign.
When asking him what its like there he said "exactly the same, just a different colour!"
Says it all really!
We get a good wage each month, good predictable days off, we have a CC that DOES give a FF about T & C's and work hard on our behalf. Nice aircraft, nice crews and despite the increased size, we still have a laugh at work.
People moan about a career airline - a career is a step up from FO to Captain. There may now be a waiting list but there arent any shortages of spaces. Yes, some delays which is a pain for the individuals but not a cause to throw teddy out of cot. A career is then into the training department. If thats what you want then fine, but the percentage of trainers to pilots (airlines everywhere) is small. So why not chill out and go to work, do your stuff and take the money.
If you dont like it leave. There ARE plenty of jobs available - do it dont blab about it, its boring and tiresome.
There are PLENTY of things that can be done to improve our lot, a lot at little cost to the Company. But those of you that have been around a bit will know that ALL, yes ALL, companies are the same.
I had a little exchange of words with a Thompson Fly captain not long ago. A bit of banter after he called himself easy. He said he'd been with easy for 5 years and difficult to get out of the habit of callsign.
When asking him what its like there he said "exactly the same, just a different colour!"
Says it all really!
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Stu Bigzorst
You have kindly offered to do all this work for BALPA for nothing but you can't afford to join. Can I suggest that every pilot in easyJet could afford to join BALPA but many choose not to in order to spend their hard-earned cash on other things. It is all down to priorities. If you were serious about BALPA you would find the money and join - and so would I but I don't!
Herein lies the dilemna for many easyJet pilots. Is it fair to let others pay the money and do the work yet whine when you do not get what you would have liked in terms and conditions? Probably not. And yet 1% of your salary seems a staggering amount for not a huge return. The fact is that I resent paying that sum of money that could, for example, be spent on private health care which is not currently provided by easyJet. And yet I feel that I am not playing my part.
I left BALPA following serious misgivings about various issues at a previous company and was initiially delighted to have a bit more cash. I was thinking of rejoining and then the dreadful site of BALPA helping Jessica Starmer rob BA blind was just too much and I put off the evil day again. And yet, in my heart of hearts I feel I am sponging off other people. Like everyone else I will wait with great interest to see the results of the next pay round.
At first glance it would be easy to become disillusioned - BALPA managed to get an annual pay cycle changed to 18 months, lose the FO's loyalty bonus, agree in principle to get rid of the of the Captains' bonus in favour of a scheme that would cost the company less and to cap it all managed to negotiate away a week of leave for everyone! In the meantime 40 managers got a pot of £10 million to 'thank' them for their efforts during the GO merger and no easyJet pilots got a bean. It could hardly be regarded as a success and I am sure our bosses must be simply delighted to deal with such generous opposition.
And yet I cannot help but feeling that if we had a huge membership then the negotiating position would be totally different. We could fight for a proper pension (GB Airways recently got an increase from 10% to 14% and we are stuck on 7%), private medical care (wait until you are ill and you will know how vital that is) and proper leave arrangements.
So - what to do? I have decided on a course of action that I will share with the group. I wish to give BALPA a chance and give them ammunition to fight the battle ahead. I have therefore decided to join for 6 months starting in September and will wait and see what deal they come up with. If they negotiate away the captain's loyalty bonus for some manifestly worse scheme, fail to get the pension sorted and fail to get a sensible pay rise and don't get issues such as a London weighting on the agenda then I will leave. Equally, if it can be seen by a reasonable person that BALPA have achieved something that would not otherwise have occurred then I will be delighted and will encourage others to follow suit.
This is therefore my challenge to the doubters - give our CC a fighting chance and join up prior to the next round of negotiations (anyone give me a date for that please?). If they do well back them and if they do badly then leave. But what cannot be acceptable to is to give them no real clout and complain when they do not come up trumps.
You have kindly offered to do all this work for BALPA for nothing but you can't afford to join. Can I suggest that every pilot in easyJet could afford to join BALPA but many choose not to in order to spend their hard-earned cash on other things. It is all down to priorities. If you were serious about BALPA you would find the money and join - and so would I but I don't!
Herein lies the dilemna for many easyJet pilots. Is it fair to let others pay the money and do the work yet whine when you do not get what you would have liked in terms and conditions? Probably not. And yet 1% of your salary seems a staggering amount for not a huge return. The fact is that I resent paying that sum of money that could, for example, be spent on private health care which is not currently provided by easyJet. And yet I feel that I am not playing my part.
I left BALPA following serious misgivings about various issues at a previous company and was initiially delighted to have a bit more cash. I was thinking of rejoining and then the dreadful site of BALPA helping Jessica Starmer rob BA blind was just too much and I put off the evil day again. And yet, in my heart of hearts I feel I am sponging off other people. Like everyone else I will wait with great interest to see the results of the next pay round.
At first glance it would be easy to become disillusioned - BALPA managed to get an annual pay cycle changed to 18 months, lose the FO's loyalty bonus, agree in principle to get rid of the of the Captains' bonus in favour of a scheme that would cost the company less and to cap it all managed to negotiate away a week of leave for everyone! In the meantime 40 managers got a pot of £10 million to 'thank' them for their efforts during the GO merger and no easyJet pilots got a bean. It could hardly be regarded as a success and I am sure our bosses must be simply delighted to deal with such generous opposition.
And yet I cannot help but feeling that if we had a huge membership then the negotiating position would be totally different. We could fight for a proper pension (GB Airways recently got an increase from 10% to 14% and we are stuck on 7%), private medical care (wait until you are ill and you will know how vital that is) and proper leave arrangements.
So - what to do? I have decided on a course of action that I will share with the group. I wish to give BALPA a chance and give them ammunition to fight the battle ahead. I have therefore decided to join for 6 months starting in September and will wait and see what deal they come up with. If they negotiate away the captain's loyalty bonus for some manifestly worse scheme, fail to get the pension sorted and fail to get a sensible pay rise and don't get issues such as a London weighting on the agenda then I will leave. Equally, if it can be seen by a reasonable person that BALPA have achieved something that would not otherwise have occurred then I will be delighted and will encourage others to follow suit.
This is therefore my challenge to the doubters - give our CC a fighting chance and join up prior to the next round of negotiations (anyone give me a date for that please?). If they do well back them and if they do badly then leave. But what cannot be acceptable to is to give them no real clout and complain when they do not come up trumps.
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NSF, as one who does pay my 1%, I would like to thank you for your offer of rejoining. We wont get much in this pay round (31Oct) without more people doing likewise.
I just wish to correct a couple of 'facts' in your fourth paragraph.
The CC didnt change the pay negotiation cycle to 18months permanently. It was a one off to let the company hold negotiations in the second half of year rather than first. It is back to yearly now.
The CC STOPPED the company removing the Captains loyalty bonus as well! All that could be negotiated, when so many begrudged the 1%. It was a bit shortsighted.... 1% deduction for a 5% bonus???
The CC only agreed to evaluate a replacement for the bonus, and would only agree if no members lost money on the deal.
The weeks leave was GONE before any negotiations, and the CC got the weeks GDO's(what a mess, but Ive just had mine!) to TRY and replace it. Without BALPA that wouldnt have happened.
The CC spend too much time holding 'fingers in the dyke' to stop the leaks... but they need more 'fingers' before we can seriously start refilling...........
I just wish to correct a couple of 'facts' in your fourth paragraph.
The CC didnt change the pay negotiation cycle to 18months permanently. It was a one off to let the company hold negotiations in the second half of year rather than first. It is back to yearly now.
The CC STOPPED the company removing the Captains loyalty bonus as well! All that could be negotiated, when so many begrudged the 1%. It was a bit shortsighted.... 1% deduction for a 5% bonus???
The CC only agreed to evaluate a replacement for the bonus, and would only agree if no members lost money on the deal.
The weeks leave was GONE before any negotiations, and the CC got the weeks GDO's(what a mess, but Ive just had mine!) to TRY and replace it. Without BALPA that wouldnt have happened.
The CC spend too much time holding 'fingers in the dyke' to stop the leaks... but they need more 'fingers' before we can seriously start refilling...........
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Remember for a TRSS FO on £35k basic after tax relief the monthly amount is just over £11.
So why not give it a go?
If the payrise is over 0.5% then your membership will have paid for itself.
So why not give it a go?
If the payrise is over 0.5% then your membership will have paid for itself.
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Norman Stanley Fletcher,
I agree with you. As I stated in my previous post, those are the things that the CC should be focusing on.
I have decided not to resign just yet but will stay and give the CC another chance to get the priorities right in september.
Good luck CC.
I agree with you. As I stated in my previous post, those are the things that the CC should be focusing on.
I have decided not to resign just yet but will stay and give the CC another chance to get the priorities right in september.
Good luck CC.
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Norman Stanley Fletcher,
I also agree with your comments.
We should all be encouraging our colleagues to join BALPA in the run up to the pay negotiations. We all know what the CC in Virgin achieved with over 90% membership.
With the reduction in contributions for new members and tax savings, it's a small price to pay.
I also agree with your comments.
We should all be encouraging our colleagues to join BALPA in the run up to the pay negotiations. We all know what the CC in Virgin achieved with over 90% membership.
With the reduction in contributions for new members and tax savings, it's a small price to pay.
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It's easy to say that TRSS guys shouldn't have "signed on the dotted line" but put yourself in their shoes. If it's the only deal being offered it doesn't leave you much room for manouvre does it?
I recently signed on the dotted line with BA. What was once the industry leader in terms of salary, is now offering a pay/pension deal that existing pilots would consider derisory, even though BA has a Balpa membership in the 90%s.
I think its clear that we should remember that BALPA is merely an umbrella organisation - it is the individual company CCs who are doing the negotiating. And who is the CC? Normal line pilots like you and me. They will be seeking the best available deals for their members using the best available deterrent. Neither BA nor EasyJet CC's will be jeopardising their existing pilots welfare for the sake of new joiners - neither will existing pilots be happy to go on strike for their more junior newbies. And if the eJ CC can't offer a credible deterrent, then there isn't much they can negotiate for, and new joiners will be lowest priority.
Better the new guys cop the costcutting than the rest of us, eh? But you start down that road and you will inevitably create a situation ripe for divide and conquer. When the company offers a nice sweet deal for junior FOs and it involves trading off the loss of loyalty bonus, I wonder how much support the bonus will actually get?
Unfortunately, management are better at playing this game than we are. And they are getting us right where they want us.
In short - if you are in eJ and you want to have a decent job - join up or be ready to take the consequences!
I recently signed on the dotted line with BA. What was once the industry leader in terms of salary, is now offering a pay/pension deal that existing pilots would consider derisory, even though BA has a Balpa membership in the 90%s.
I think its clear that we should remember that BALPA is merely an umbrella organisation - it is the individual company CCs who are doing the negotiating. And who is the CC? Normal line pilots like you and me. They will be seeking the best available deals for their members using the best available deterrent. Neither BA nor EasyJet CC's will be jeopardising their existing pilots welfare for the sake of new joiners - neither will existing pilots be happy to go on strike for their more junior newbies. And if the eJ CC can't offer a credible deterrent, then there isn't much they can negotiate for, and new joiners will be lowest priority.
Better the new guys cop the costcutting than the rest of us, eh? But you start down that road and you will inevitably create a situation ripe for divide and conquer. When the company offers a nice sweet deal for junior FOs and it involves trading off the loss of loyalty bonus, I wonder how much support the bonus will actually get?
Unfortunately, management are better at playing this game than we are. And they are getting us right where they want us.
In short - if you are in eJ and you want to have a decent job - join up or be ready to take the consequences!
