Condor/TCX,Hands across the ocean!
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According to reports it was a Condor Boeing 767 that popped up to say hello to a Thomas Cook Boeing 757 mistaking it for another Condor aircraft which he was trying to photograph. For more information there is a 3 page thread on the whole issue!
Cheers, FJ2k
Cheers, FJ2k
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The beeb did pretty well at reporting the story in the link above:
No wonder we're short on airspace with restrictions like that 
(edited below as I was the one who knew too little and I stand corrected, you learn something new every day!)
Planes are not supposed to come within 300m vertically, or 96km if they are at the same height.
(edited below as I was the one who knew too little and I stand corrected, you learn something new every day!)
Last edited by fastjet2k; 14th Jul 2005 at 20:52.
I'm Just A Lawnmower
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Actually, had the Beeb qualified the statement by explaining that aircraft over the Atlantic need to be separated by 300m vertically and 96km if at the same height, they wouldn't have been too far from the truth, though they could have used good old fashioned feet and nautical miles. Whilst vertical separation is 1000ft nearly everywhere, oceanic tracks are separated by 60nm. At the same height on the same track, aircraft have to be ten minutes apart which is 80 nm at 480kts.
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"So, um... is everyone saying that pilots shouldn't talk to the press when the press is investigating a story, or that the press shouldn't investigate a story, or that.. er..."
SLF:
It is in every pilot's contract that no public statements shall be made, about that airline's operations, without management authoristation. This is true if there is an incident or not.
SLF:
It is in every pilot's contract that no public statements shall be made, about that airline's operations, without management authoristation. This is true if there is an incident or not.
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BALIX
I was just discussing that with one of the instructors here, I hadn´t realised that was the case over the Atlantic so I retract previous statement and apologise for ignorance shown! Thankyou for pointing out my error...
FJ2k
I was just discussing that with one of the instructors here, I hadn´t realised that was the case over the Atlantic so I retract previous statement and apologise for ignorance shown! Thankyou for pointing out my error...
FJ2k
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Did Condor operate 747's?
Yes. They operated 2 747-230( never-100) early seventies til beginning 80ies. We nicknamed them MAX(D-ABYH) and FRITZ(D-ABYF). My flight log indicates a Condor Reg D-ABYR additionally.
On 1/9/1983 after Korean Air Lines (HL7442) bought our "MAX" plane from Condor (former D-ABYH), a Soviet fighter aircraft shot down this aircraft by missile (during flying over Russian territory) into Okhotsk sea near Shakhalin Island and killed all people.
Cause of navigational error: mishandling of INS.
Around 1995 LH used 747-400 (D-ABTD) in Condor livery to operate into Taiwan.
Regards
Yes. They operated 2 747-230( never-100) early seventies til beginning 80ies. We nicknamed them MAX(D-ABYH) and FRITZ(D-ABYF). My flight log indicates a Condor Reg D-ABYR additionally.
On 1/9/1983 after Korean Air Lines (HL7442) bought our "MAX" plane from Condor (former D-ABYH), a Soviet fighter aircraft shot down this aircraft by missile (during flying over Russian territory) into Okhotsk sea near Shakhalin Island and killed all people.
Cause of navigational error: mishandling of INS.
Around 1995 LH used 747-400 (D-ABTD) in Condor livery to operate into Taiwan.
Regards
Last edited by Captain104; 16th Jul 2005 at 12:04.
Not available in stores.
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Oof. Have all companies gone so bad as to not even give a retiring employee a token (if tacky) farewell in the office, or a hired hotel room, so as to not inspire hijinks in the air?
Or would wot happened here just be "extracurricular" activity?
No, I'm not a journo. Perish the thought.
They are, it appears, reading, so we all must tread with care...
Or would wot happened here just be "extracurricular" activity?
No, I'm not a journo. Perish the thought.
They are, it appears, reading, so we all must tread with care...
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Just out of interest .....
Would those who feel very strongly about this incident, way out over the North Atlantic at 35W, have felt as strongly if the Condor pilot had identified the correct aircraft? (And by prior agreement between both crews.)
Would those who feel very strongly about this incident, way out over the North Atlantic at 35W, have felt as strongly if the Condor pilot had identified the correct aircraft? (And by prior agreement between both crews.)
FL,
That's the best question of all. Had it been the right 757, photoshoot accomplished and separation re-established, would anyone have been the wiser until - perhaps - weeks later? And then? A formal wrist-slap, some very suppressed grins and a deniable rumour? What a temptation it must have been and one wonders, how many readers of this thread have done the same or similar and now thought "there but for the grace etc."
This is not to belittle the dangers of heavy aircraft flying close to each other. My own background is marine where we have a history of gruesome accidents caused by enthusiasm overcoming caution. Nothing's ever heard of the cases where an up-close photo of "me on my final voyage" wasn't accompanied by a scrape.
That's the best question of all. Had it been the right 757, photoshoot accomplished and separation re-established, would anyone have been the wiser until - perhaps - weeks later? And then? A formal wrist-slap, some very suppressed grins and a deniable rumour? What a temptation it must have been and one wonders, how many readers of this thread have done the same or similar and now thought "there but for the grace etc."
This is not to belittle the dangers of heavy aircraft flying close to each other. My own background is marine where we have a history of gruesome accidents caused by enthusiasm overcoming caution. Nothing's ever heard of the cases where an up-close photo of "me on my final voyage" wasn't accompanied by a scrape.
Oh, so it's OK if we all just call up our mates in mid-Atlantic, get in close (only if they agree, of course), take a couple of pix and go back to our business of safe transportation?
Come to think of it - why do we need horizontal and vertical separation anyway. Why don't we all just do what we like? Nothing's going to happen.
Get real, people!
Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. (But I'm bl99dy sure I'm not)
Come to think of it - why do we need horizontal and vertical separation anyway. Why don't we all just do what we like? Nothing's going to happen.
Get real, people!
Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. (But I'm bl99dy sure I'm not)
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It's quiz time!
What was behind a mid-air near miss over the Atlantic?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4682853.stm
What was behind a mid-air near miss over the Atlantic?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4682853.stm
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A while ago there was a discussion on the chat frequency regarding "ride reports" at 35W.
One poor soul was in moderate turbulence at 37000'. He was the only one experiencing any turbulence and it was suggested to him that it may be the wake from the preceeding a/c at 38000 (I seem to remember that vortecies descend at 500'/min so if you are 2 mins behind the preceeding a thousand above .....).
The responce was amazing, the chap suggested he had tried descending to 36500' and climbing to 37500' to try for a smoother ride!
For the next few minutes all hell broke loose (quite rightly) with numerous other a/c trying to find out who this idiot was. Never did find out who it was.
One poor soul was in moderate turbulence at 37000'. He was the only one experiencing any turbulence and it was suggested to him that it may be the wake from the preceeding a/c at 38000 (I seem to remember that vortecies descend at 500'/min so if you are 2 mins behind the preceeding a thousand above .....).
The responce was amazing, the chap suggested he had tried descending to 36500' and climbing to 37500' to try for a smoother ride!
For the next few minutes all hell broke loose (quite rightly) with numerous other a/c trying to find out who this idiot was. Never did find out who it was.
Look - even if this fool hadn't triggered a TCAS RA on the other aircraft, he must have realised that if he was close enough to take a snap of his mate, so was everone else on both aircraft.
Given that the 6 Degrees of Separation theory says that the story had a 100% chance of getting back to a) the press or b) the above-mentioned fool's Chief Pilot via some circuitous means, we should seriously be asking ourselves if he wasn't a boiled egg short of a picnic in the first place.....
Given that the 6 Degrees of Separation theory says that the story had a 100% chance of getting back to a) the press or b) the above-mentioned fool's Chief Pilot via some circuitous means, we should seriously be asking ourselves if he wasn't a boiled egg short of a picnic in the first place.....
Freight God
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Provided he had a good teleobjective and that his friend was in his closer surroundings (meaning same track and 1000ft above or below, some NMs away) he actually might have gotten his picture (provided this was the intention) completely legally and safe with an offset track (well, you start doing your offset while you come 'close' to your buddy). There are quite some pictures on the 'regular suspect' websites like that.
But any other technique is not really recommendeable and I have complete comprehension should this chap (or actually these chaps) have to find another income provider.
But any other technique is not really recommendeable and I have complete comprehension should this chap (or actually these chaps) have to find another income provider.
