FR off the runway in Sweden
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FR through the taxiway in Sweden
Ryanair had to cancel their Monday evening flight from Västerås in Sweden. As the aircraft was entering the runway for take off, it tracked too far left, and entered a newly paved area only meant for use by ground vehicles.
The left main wheels sunk through the surface by a foot. Passengers say the pilot was using the engines to try to get out of the hole, but instead the aircraft sunk even deeper.
Sorry, unable to edit the main title of this topic.
Scando.
The left main wheels sunk through the surface by a foot. Passengers say the pilot was using the engines to try to get out of the hole, but instead the aircraft sunk even deeper.
Sorry, unable to edit the main title of this topic.
Scando.
Last edited by Scando; 23rd Jun 2005 at 09:40.
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Do RYR use the 11m wide paralell at ESOW, ore do they use the 23m one from the terminal to THR19?
The twys on the (former) SwAF bases are very suspect, low PCN, narrow, no reinforced shoulders, and with tight turns. Just a matter of time before something happened. (?)
The twys on the (former) SwAF bases are very suspect, low PCN, narrow, no reinforced shoulders, and with tight turns. Just a matter of time before something happened. (?)
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perhaps if Ryanair were prepared to pay the going rate then maybe the airport concerned would keep the taxiways in good condition? A case of if you pay nowt you get nowt?
Just a thought (sound of cat thrown among the pigeons...).
Just a thought (sound of cat thrown among the pigeons...).
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according to swedish news the aircraft sunk through some asfalt only made to support snow cleaning vehicles, see article and picture
http://www.vlt.se/artikelmall.asp?version=145331
http://www.vlt.se/artikelmall.asp?version=145331
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M609; no, we only use the standard width taxiways, which at VST means the curved taxiway from the apron to the northern threshold.
Sallpilot; so, what other airline is responsible for runway maintenance? The fact that RYR pays lower landing charges than most operators is a failing of the negotiators in those other companies, not RYR - it's bad business to pay more than neccessary. Plenty of other aircraft use VST, we're hardly sole users. Your RYR bashing leads to an assumption of which competitor you may be working for. If that assumption is correct, shouldn't you be getting your own glass house in order before throwing stones at someone else's? Like getting some safe fuel and rostering policies?
Pitottube; that may be correct, but the area that gave way is not marked in any way or notam'd, so there is no information to the pilot that the surface is unsuitable.
Sallpilot; so, what other airline is responsible for runway maintenance? The fact that RYR pays lower landing charges than most operators is a failing of the negotiators in those other companies, not RYR - it's bad business to pay more than neccessary. Plenty of other aircraft use VST, we're hardly sole users. Your RYR bashing leads to an assumption of which competitor you may be working for. If that assumption is correct, shouldn't you be getting your own glass house in order before throwing stones at someone else's? Like getting some safe fuel and rostering policies?
Pitottube; that may be correct, but the area that gave way is not marked in any way or notam'd, so there is no information to the pilot that the surface is unsuitable.
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C'mon fellas, it looks to me from the picture that the poor guy was quite entitled to be there and, what's more, had he been travelling at speed, either it wouldn't have happened or it would have been a great deal worse! Lets try to be fair.
Cheers,
mcdhu
Cheers,
mcdhu
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same thing happened to an ALPIEAGLES F100 last year at Napoli and as it happened here it was the airport responsability as the area was not properly marked...
allways people ready for an FR bashing... are you guys jalous or what
allways people ready for an FR bashing... are you guys jalous or what
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***WARNING***
It's becoming quite obvious that some posters are not too bright when it comes relating to the topic in question and their pathological reflex instict when it comes to anything that involves the name Ryanair. Please understand that just because some of you have a problem with Ryanair management or customer services does not mean that you can hijack the thread to spout off on some unrelated issue.
I am only going to leave posts that relate directly to the incident. I've already deleted a whole host of replies that bear no relation to the topic except the fact that this incident involves a Ryanair aircraft. It will be a wasted effort and serves no other purpose except to show the rest of the readership that you are probably not a professional pilot and enjoy the bravado of hearing your own voice from behind the cloak of anonimity.
Unless you can discuss the incident in a mature, professional manner without descending into petty rants that have little or nothing to do with the facts then your efforts will be wasted as they will be deleted.
I am only going to leave posts that relate directly to the incident. I've already deleted a whole host of replies that bear no relation to the topic except the fact that this incident involves a Ryanair aircraft. It will be a wasted effort and serves no other purpose except to show the rest of the readership that you are probably not a professional pilot and enjoy the bravado of hearing your own voice from behind the cloak of anonimity.
Unless you can discuss the incident in a mature, professional manner without descending into petty rants that have little or nothing to do with the facts then your efforts will be wasted as they will be deleted.
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For those not too well versed in Swedish
From the article linked above:
Enligt Mikael Nilsson hamnade piloten för långt åt sidan när han skulle lämna taxibanan och köra ut på startbanan. Vänstra landningsstället hamnade på en nyasfalterad sidoyta som är till för snöröjningsfordon. Hjulparet sjönk ner 30 centimeter och planet tippade åt vänster så att undersidan på vänstra motorn tog i asfalten, enligt ett vittne. Flera passagerare berättar att piloten varvade flygplanets motorer som för att komma upp ur gropen - förgäves. I stället ska hjulen ha sjunkit djupare.
Mikael Nilsson vet inte om asfalten gav med sig på grund av försommarvärmen. - Det får haveriutredningen visa.
My translation:
"According to Mikael Nilsson (Airport manager) the pilot ventured too far to the side as he left the taxiway to enter the runway. The left main gear went onto a newly resurfaced piece of taxiway meant only for snow clearing vehicles. The wheels sunk 30 cm and the aircraft tipped left, seeing the left engine impact the ground. Several passengers reported that the pilot rev'ed the engine to get out of the hole - in vain. Instead the wheel supposedly dug in deeper. Mikael Nilsson does not know if the asphalt gave way owing the the heat. - The investigation will show that".
Enligt Mikael Nilsson hamnade piloten för långt åt sidan när han skulle lämna taxibanan och köra ut på startbanan. Vänstra landningsstället hamnade på en nyasfalterad sidoyta som är till för snöröjningsfordon. Hjulparet sjönk ner 30 centimeter och planet tippade åt vänster så att undersidan på vänstra motorn tog i asfalten, enligt ett vittne. Flera passagerare berättar att piloten varvade flygplanets motorer som för att komma upp ur gropen - förgäves. I stället ska hjulen ha sjunkit djupare.
Mikael Nilsson vet inte om asfalten gav med sig på grund av försommarvärmen. - Det får haveriutredningen visa.
My translation:
"According to Mikael Nilsson (Airport manager) the pilot ventured too far to the side as he left the taxiway to enter the runway. The left main gear went onto a newly resurfaced piece of taxiway meant only for snow clearing vehicles. The wheels sunk 30 cm and the aircraft tipped left, seeing the left engine impact the ground. Several passengers reported that the pilot rev'ed the engine to get out of the hole - in vain. Instead the wheel supposedly dug in deeper. Mikael Nilsson does not know if the asphalt gave way owing the the heat. - The investigation will show that".
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He was not on the TWY, but on the paved shoulder outside. (Paved for easy snow clearence)
Sounds like he cut the corner at bit......
I've seen it't up here several times, but It's not a big issue, since the pavement is old and "cured", and the shoulders have a PCN equal/close to the TWY itself. (And in winter, PCN is not much of an issue.....)
Sounds like he cut the corner at bit......
I've seen it't up here several times, but It's not a big issue, since the pavement is old and "cured", and the shoulders have a PCN equal/close to the TWY itself. (And in winter, PCN is not much of an issue.....)
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Well it is Formula 1 season.
Must have been caught up in the moment.
How many of us are guilty of doing it in our cars?
In an a/c however, there is no justification whatsoever.
Has the skipper been sacked on the spot, or is there an investigation going on at Rynannair. Good luck to those involved
Must have been caught up in the moment.
How many of us are guilty of doing it in our cars?
In an a/c however, there is no justification whatsoever.
Has the skipper been sacked on the spot, or is there an investigation going on at Rynannair. Good luck to those involved
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As I said before, M609, there is no marking on the ground or charts that the surface is unsuitable. If you're heavy and the temperature is in the 20's, it's not imprudent to maximise the TODA. The pilot did nothing wrong; the area should have been appropriately marked off.
ATIS, you're a fool. The same thing could easily have happened to anyone, and this should be regarded as a learning point, not an opportunity to critcise others who came a-cropper due to no fault of their own.
ATIS, you're a fool. The same thing could easily have happened to anyone, and this should be regarded as a learning point, not an opportunity to critcise others who came a-cropper due to no fault of their own.
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It seems like my earlier post was mis-understood as Ryanair bashing, allow me to explain...
Lo-cost carriers want rock-bottom rates to fly to airports and seem to be in a strong position to demand this. Airports are desperate for users so appear to slash prices to encourage the lo-costs to go there. Lo-co, agrees to fly there then the airport realises it needs to invest to repair/upgrade facilities and suggests raising charges to help pay. The lo-co then says no and threatens to pull out. This seems a similar story at many airports
I'm sorry but paying airlines to fly to your airport is ok as a short-term loss -eader but not sustainable in the long-term. Similarly lo-co's demanding rock-bottom rates will lead to poor facilities, and possible poor safety implications.
As Mr O'Leary might say - 'what do you expect for a tenner' ? Well, the answer may well be - not what you want and dont moan if you cant turn-round your flight in 25 mins because there's only 1 fuel-bowser working, the taxiway is u/s, there's no ATC cover at times or other such problems. As I said before, you can't expect owt for nowt and someone (the passanger?) will eventually have to pay for it....
Lo-cost carriers want rock-bottom rates to fly to airports and seem to be in a strong position to demand this. Airports are desperate for users so appear to slash prices to encourage the lo-costs to go there. Lo-co, agrees to fly there then the airport realises it needs to invest to repair/upgrade facilities and suggests raising charges to help pay. The lo-co then says no and threatens to pull out. This seems a similar story at many airports
I'm sorry but paying airlines to fly to your airport is ok as a short-term loss -eader but not sustainable in the long-term. Similarly lo-co's demanding rock-bottom rates will lead to poor facilities, and possible poor safety implications.
As Mr O'Leary might say - 'what do you expect for a tenner' ? Well, the answer may well be - not what you want and dont moan if you cant turn-round your flight in 25 mins because there's only 1 fuel-bowser working, the taxiway is u/s, there's no ATC cover at times or other such problems. As I said before, you can't expect owt for nowt and someone (the passanger?) will eventually have to pay for it....
smallpilot, your earlier post could be read as Ryanair bashing, however your latest could be read as lo-co and airport bashing, with a choice selection of glib statements and assumptions.
Would you like to supply any FACTUAL evidence of this?
'Similarly lo-co's demanding rock-bottom rates will lead to poor facilities, and possible poor safety implications'
In my experience they seem to improve the facilities Luton,Liverpool, NorKoping, for example, have changed almost beyond recognition for the better with the advent of lo-co carriers. I'm more interested however in your assumption that safety will suffer. WHY will it?, and specifically in WHAT area of airport operations will this manifest itself?. Please provide previous examples of safety/lo-co/airport incidents for us to discuss.
'there's only 1 fuel-bowser working' I dont know many fuel companies that operate airports or vice versa! This would be an agreement with a FUEL company.
'the airport realises it needs to invest to repair/upgrade facilities' Are you seriously suggesting that when an airport gets into an agreement with a major new customer, lo-co or otherwise, for X number of flights with Y number of passengers, that they have no idea of the likely impact on their facilities?
If an airport raises its charges to a level deemed unacceptable by an airline, why shouldn't they take their business elsewhere?
Would you like to supply any FACTUAL evidence of this?
'Similarly lo-co's demanding rock-bottom rates will lead to poor facilities, and possible poor safety implications'
In my experience they seem to improve the facilities Luton,Liverpool, NorKoping, for example, have changed almost beyond recognition for the better with the advent of lo-co carriers. I'm more interested however in your assumption that safety will suffer. WHY will it?, and specifically in WHAT area of airport operations will this manifest itself?. Please provide previous examples of safety/lo-co/airport incidents for us to discuss.
'there's only 1 fuel-bowser working' I dont know many fuel companies that operate airports or vice versa! This would be an agreement with a FUEL company.
'the airport realises it needs to invest to repair/upgrade facilities' Are you seriously suggesting that when an airport gets into an agreement with a major new customer, lo-co or otherwise, for X number of flights with Y number of passengers, that they have no idea of the likely impact on their facilities?
If an airport raises its charges to a level deemed unacceptable by an airline, why shouldn't they take their business elsewhere?
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Seems to me that low cost carriers may not pay the airports particularly well but they bring something much more important, PAX.
PAX bring family and friends to drop off and collect them. Family friends and pax all spend money. Lo Cos dont feed their pax so they eat at the airport. Airport food is usually fairly costly. Car parking, vending concesions and the like all add to the coffers.
I think if I was running a quiet regional airport I would be more than happy to have all those walking profit opportunities passing through.
PAX bring family and friends to drop off and collect them. Family friends and pax all spend money. Lo Cos dont feed their pax so they eat at the airport. Airport food is usually fairly costly. Car parking, vending concesions and the like all add to the coffers.
I think if I was running a quiet regional airport I would be more than happy to have all those walking profit opportunities passing through.
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where exactly?
sorry to actually be concerned about the event itself, but anyone out there know which taxi way runway intersection this happened at? any info about yellow lines etc?
though i do not always follow yellow lines to the inch, it is often clear to see where there is a pavement material change, though at night or in rain, snow it is a bit more difficult.
my sympathy goes out to the flight crew.
though i do not always follow yellow lines to the inch, it is often clear to see where there is a pavement material change, though at night or in rain, snow it is a bit more difficult.
my sympathy goes out to the flight crew.
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The taxiway from the apron to runway 19 is just a straight line. The only thing to indicate the soft ground was a piece of tarmac sprayed red. What does that mean? I don't believe it's NOTAM'd. Anyway, was in there the other day and they've put bad ground markings around it now. Nothing like a bit of proactivity. Nice hole though.