Alcohol tests in AMS
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security in the US
Mine are.
I fly into the USA fairly often. Both as active duty crew member and as a passenger to releive my colleages. Every time I enter the US seems to trigger all sorts of terrorist warnings and I have to answer millions of questions. Also, the rules change every time and differ from place to place.
last time me and my crew were body-searched, (in public), our laptops were dismanteled and we almost missed our connecting flight becayse of this stupidness. And all that while they have all our particulars on computer including our fingerprints, pictures and credit information. Talk about Schindlers list? This does remind me of WW II scenes.
I fly into the USA fairly often. Both as active duty crew member and as a passenger to releive my colleages. Every time I enter the US seems to trigger all sorts of terrorist warnings and I have to answer millions of questions. Also, the rules change every time and differ from place to place.
last time me and my crew were body-searched, (in public), our laptops were dismanteled and we almost missed our connecting flight becayse of this stupidness. And all that while they have all our particulars on computer including our fingerprints, pictures and credit information. Talk about Schindlers list? This does remind me of WW II scenes.
Cavortingcheetah: If that is exactly what happened, then you should have demanded to see his supervisor, told him what happened and if that produced no apology from the offender, then state that you find such rough physical treatment to be "assault". State that the offending agent might need to replace some teeth next time, or fix a broken nose-then go right up to the little (or big) Napoleon and breath on him from about 12 inches, opposite his face, as you hold your clenched fist opposite his nose.
That might be risky, depending on local politics, and will produce some results, but it would require lots of nerve on your part-just hope that a neutral witness will make a statement on your behalf.
I'm sorry to read about so many problems for crewmembers entering the US (find this embarassing), but ask these agents just why they seem to resent or hate all foreign pilots, and hopefully you have already dumped almost every metallic obect into a plastic tray. Tell that you notice how easily US crewmembers get through.
US crewmembers also had lots of problems soon after 9/11. My home crewbase was quite an improvement over the previous personnel and seem to be one of the best. Anyway, many of the problems seemed to mostly be for pilots on one-way deadhead tickets, especially pilots with freight airlines in foreign countries. Some had arrogant personnel turn flight bags upside down and dump everything on the floor .
That might be risky, depending on local politics, and will produce some results, but it would require lots of nerve on your part-just hope that a neutral witness will make a statement on your behalf.
I'm sorry to read about so many problems for crewmembers entering the US (find this embarassing), but ask these agents just why they seem to resent or hate all foreign pilots, and hopefully you have already dumped almost every metallic obect into a plastic tray. Tell that you notice how easily US crewmembers get through.
US crewmembers also had lots of problems soon after 9/11. My home crewbase was quite an improvement over the previous personnel and seem to be one of the best. Anyway, many of the problems seemed to mostly be for pilots on one-way deadhead tickets, especially pilots with freight airlines in foreign countries. Some had arrogant personnel turn flight bags upside down and dump everything on the floor .
Está servira para distraerle.
Ignition O/R.Yes indeedee, in spite of my well known reputation for gentle exaggeration that is exactly what did happen. Damned insolent assault! By Jingo!
I thank you for your advice but I would decline to take all of it on board. The guard in question was, shall I say, a first generation Hollander and very large in a muscular sort of way. The Dutch sense of humour is somewhat mysterious ranging from a sort of Dead Sea dryness to an infantility which boggles the old vacuum pack. In addition to all that, their jails are full of the most atrocious riff raff, with whom I would not really wish to spend a night. I fear that the first attack upon my magnificent person could be as nothing compared to the possibility of an incarcerated intrusion therein. Toodle Pip!
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cavortingcheetah
Not reputing your claim, but may I ask with what your medieval dungeons are filled? a delicately balanced mixture of aristocracy and middle management maybe? Serving live sentences?
I do take your complaint as valid with the footnote that it is a general disease affecting a large portion of the people whom take that job upon them; security guard.
But I have to revolt against the "nationalist" remarks about a people whom you never really got to meet, judging by the shallowness of your insulting remarks.
I think overall the Dutch have a very international attitude towards others, it just so happened that you bumped into the odd rotten apple in the basket, mind you, I have seen many an example in your ,laced with brilliant humour, country.
If you have been so dreadfully treated you should have asked for a Military police officer called "marchaussee" and file a complaint, that's what I would do and if I missed my flight I would claim it with the security company. Never an excuse for incompetence. Nowhere!
On a last note; behind the tourist facade of "red-light" and "coffee-shop" there is a very hospitable country (where they even speak English) Maybe in your wiser years you might find the energy to see for your self.... and have a laugh... ?
Pointer
Not reputing your claim, but may I ask with what your medieval dungeons are filled? a delicately balanced mixture of aristocracy and middle management maybe? Serving live sentences?
I do take your complaint as valid with the footnote that it is a general disease affecting a large portion of the people whom take that job upon them; security guard.
But I have to revolt against the "nationalist" remarks about a people whom you never really got to meet, judging by the shallowness of your insulting remarks.
I think overall the Dutch have a very international attitude towards others, it just so happened that you bumped into the odd rotten apple in the basket, mind you, I have seen many an example in your ,laced with brilliant humour, country.
If you have been so dreadfully treated you should have asked for a Military police officer called "marchaussee" and file a complaint, that's what I would do and if I missed my flight I would claim it with the security company. Never an excuse for incompetence. Nowhere!
On a last note; behind the tourist facade of "red-light" and "coffee-shop" there is a very hospitable country (where they even speak English) Maybe in your wiser years you might find the energy to see for your self.... and have a laugh... ?
Pointer
Está servira para distraerle.
Pointer: Peace be upon you. I must say that I do find it embarrassing to find so many other Europeans who speak English when so few English are able to communicate in other tongues, even when relatively firmly in the cheeks, as it were.
It may comfort you to know that I have spent many a happy time in Holland, far away from the hash and whores of Amsterdam. May I say that, in general, I prefer the Dutch humour to the local variety, depending,of course upon where I find myself. As to prison, I fear that most dungeons are neither full enough nor sufficiently medieval to deter repeat offenders but then I suspect that I have some rather unpolitically correct views on the subject.
Thank you for your advice. I don't quite see why a Military Police Officer should be required to intervene in what I would perceive to be a civilian security matter. But that is of little consequence. I hope it never happens again and the next time I go through the search pattern I shall innocently mutter ' waar is 'n marchaussee'
as the hands sneak around the back of my waistband.
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Ahh i see you have descended back to earth, i wish you the same.
The reason why you should get an military police involved is that they are burdoned with the task of border security. (seeing the daimond heist they are not doing a very good task) I beleive there is a police station as well but don't know the involvements exactly.
At the moment i am enjoying the fabulous Scottish weather called "spring" overhere. I do share your views on the matters at hand but i try to keep an 'observant' point of view. and never shun a good debate!
Until we might 'cross' our keyboards again, so long
Pointer
The reason why you should get an military police involved is that they are burdoned with the task of border security. (seeing the daimond heist they are not doing a very good task) I beleive there is a police station as well but don't know the involvements exactly.
At the moment i am enjoying the fabulous Scottish weather called "spring" overhere. I do share your views on the matters at hand but i try to keep an 'observant' point of view. and never shun a good debate!
Until we might 'cross' our keyboards again, so long
Pointer
Of course. Just make sure it's not bonny clabber and you'd better avoid that as well Pointer.Join Date: Nov 2000
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I have read this post with interest and finally I do have to make a couple of comments.
First of all: why do people keep complaining about the fact that passengers would be able to see that crew are being tested. They way the crewcenter access to the terminal is constructed there is a definite S turn, PEOPLE WILL NOT SEE CREW GO THROUGH SECURITY AND SO THEY WILL NOT SEE CREW BEING TESTED, set aside the occasional business lounge passenger. Anybody that claims otherwise is dead wrong (this from a crewmember that flies daily out of AMS)
The security people checking crew are very proffesional ( and have finished at least high school and are not disabled, nor any other form of disgrunteld minority that has a beef with white man) but perhaps they take it to seriously ( I grant, but would americans have it any other way)
I believe that going to security at AMS is in no way comparable to the insulting and degrading experience that crews have to endure from the TSA staff in the states ( anybody that claims TSA is better, more proffesional or more curtious that AMS security is full of S..T)
Lets just finally leave it alone. Since 9/11 security has been upgraded everywhere. Alcohol checks are a fact of life these days.
I would rather endure these at AMS where staff is at least well trained ( and bye the way alcohol checks are being done by the military police and not security people) and profesional that some other places let alone the states, where unless you are card carying member of Al Quada you will be insulted,degraded, demaened and treated like a common criminal.
P.s. all spelling mistakes alcohol induced
First of all: why do people keep complaining about the fact that passengers would be able to see that crew are being tested. They way the crewcenter access to the terminal is constructed there is a definite S turn, PEOPLE WILL NOT SEE CREW GO THROUGH SECURITY AND SO THEY WILL NOT SEE CREW BEING TESTED, set aside the occasional business lounge passenger. Anybody that claims otherwise is dead wrong (this from a crewmember that flies daily out of AMS)
The security people checking crew are very proffesional ( and have finished at least high school and are not disabled, nor any other form of disgrunteld minority that has a beef with white man) but perhaps they take it to seriously ( I grant, but would americans have it any other way)
I believe that going to security at AMS is in no way comparable to the insulting and degrading experience that crews have to endure from the TSA staff in the states ( anybody that claims TSA is better, more proffesional or more curtious that AMS security is full of S..T)
Lets just finally leave it alone. Since 9/11 security has been upgraded everywhere. Alcohol checks are a fact of life these days.
I would rather endure these at AMS where staff is at least well trained ( and bye the way alcohol checks are being done by the military police and not security people) and profesional that some other places let alone the states, where unless you are card carying member of Al Quada you will be insulted,degraded, demaened and treated like a common criminal.
P.s. all spelling mistakes alcohol induced
Forewarned is Forearmed
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Ok now there is alcohol testing for crews at AMS, what about some of the P head pax who walk through security smelling of booze do they get stopped & checked & told they cant fly?
Abuse & violence (Air rage) is on the increase, I have seen handling agents ask the Capt if he is willing to take a passenger or passengers they suspect of drinking, why not weed some of these out at the gate & not just check the crews.
head pax who walk through security smelling of booze do they get stopped & checked & told they cant fly?Abuse & violence (Air rage) is on the increase, I have seen handling agents ask the Capt if he is willing to take a passenger or passengers they suspect of drinking, why not weed some of these out at the gate & not just check the crews.
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I agree with Ranger on this one.
Intoxicated pax must be prohibited from boarding the aircraft. Unfortunately ground staff frequently passes the problem on to the cabin crew rather than handeling this dangerous practice.
The E.U. has come up with all sorts of totally unnecessary pax protection laws but have forgotten in their infinate wisdom to address this potentially letal problem.
Can we stop this tread now and start with something really interresting?
Intoxicated pax must be prohibited from boarding the aircraft. Unfortunately ground staff frequently passes the problem on to the cabin crew rather than handeling this dangerous practice.
The E.U. has come up with all sorts of totally unnecessary pax protection laws but have forgotten in their infinate wisdom to address this potentially letal problem.
Can we stop this tread now and start with something really interresting?
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
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Unfortunately, the few have brought this on for the many. There are pilots drinking and flying out there. When AMS goes through 10,000 checks and doesn't catch anyone, the testing policy might be revisited. Meanwhile, it is right to complain if you are not treated with common respect.
TSA in the states is another matter. About one in ten encounters I have with them is unpleasant and my rude treatment by TSA uncalled for. When a uniformed crewmember is publicly searched and ordered around without any basis for suspicion, it discredits both the crewmember and TSA with the viewing public.
I understand that uniforms and IDs have been stolen or lost, and there is some risk of someone posing as a pilot trying to gain access, but the handling of the person under scrutiny by the TSA needs to be treated sensibly. Pilots and TSA should be working together to increase security, but the evolution of this relationship has destroyed much opportunity to do so.
Finally, TSA needs to pay a lot more attention to searching more likely perpetrators, and drop the PC policy of searching an equal percentage of little old ladies and Middle Eastern males.
TSA in the states is another matter. About one in ten encounters I have with them is unpleasant and my rude treatment by TSA uncalled for. When a uniformed crewmember is publicly searched and ordered around without any basis for suspicion, it discredits both the crewmember and TSA with the viewing public.
I understand that uniforms and IDs have been stolen or lost, and there is some risk of someone posing as a pilot trying to gain access, but the handling of the person under scrutiny by the TSA needs to be treated sensibly. Pilots and TSA should be working together to increase security, but the evolution of this relationship has destroyed much opportunity to do so.
Finally, TSA needs to pay a lot more attention to searching more likely perpetrators, and drop the PC policy of searching an equal percentage of little old ladies and Middle Eastern males.
Thread Starter
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Seems to have been an interresting subject !
It looks like as well that some point of views "derived" a bit from the normality... And as always some went waaaaay beyond the subject.
Anyhow, here's a reply to Niffy about my "head burried in the sand. "
Sorry for you, Niffy you have it all wrong. And I hope that your fellow pilots in your company do not know your callsign at Pprune!
Enjoy your landings to ya 'all.
It looks like as well that some point of views "derived" a bit from the normality... And as always some went waaaaay beyond the subject.
Anyhow, here's a reply to Niffy about my "head burried in the sand. "
Sorry for you, Niffy you have it all wrong. And I hope that your fellow pilots in your company do not know your callsign at Pprune!
Enjoy your landings to ya 'all.
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For the sake of flight safety I rather had the passengers tested for alcohol. There are far more problems caused by drunk pax than by crew.
I travel through AMS every week on my way to FRA, sometimes through the pax-security, sometimes the crew-security. I am always treated courteously, although sometimes I have to take my laptop out, other times I don't need to; there seems to be no logic behind that.
There is absolutely no comparison possible between AMS security staff and TSA. In RDU, when flying as a pax (in uniform) to ATL, I was forced by a big black security person, to undress unto my boxershorts in front of all passengers, after which my suitcase was flipped over and all my private stuff was thrown on the ground in full view for everyone. My question why this was necessary was answered with silence, my request for a private room was ignored, my request for the manager on duty was answered with "shut up and sit down". The entire procedure took over 25 minutes.
It made me miss my flight by the way. And almost missed my on duty flight in ATL as well...
Security in AMS is a breeze, really: polite and relatively quick.
P77
I travel through AMS every week on my way to FRA, sometimes through the pax-security, sometimes the crew-security. I am always treated courteously, although sometimes I have to take my laptop out, other times I don't need to; there seems to be no logic behind that.
There is absolutely no comparison possible between AMS security staff and TSA. In RDU, when flying as a pax (in uniform) to ATL, I was forced by a big black security person, to undress unto my boxershorts in front of all passengers, after which my suitcase was flipped over and all my private stuff was thrown on the ground in full view for everyone. My question why this was necessary was answered with silence, my request for a private room was ignored, my request for the manager on duty was answered with "shut up and sit down". The entire procedure took over 25 minutes.
It made me miss my flight by the way. And almost missed my on duty flight in ATL as well...
Security in AMS is a breeze, really: polite and relatively quick.
P77
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The reason why you should get an military police involved is that they are burdoned with the task of border security. (seeing the daimond heist they are not doing a very good task) I beleive there is a police station as well but don't know the involvements exactly.
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In RDU, when flying as a pax (in uniform) to ATL, I was forced by a big black security person, to undress unto my boxershorts in front of all passengers, after which my suitcase was flipped over and all my private stuff was thrown on the ground in full view for everyone. My question why this
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Hello Bamse01,
I had difficulty believing it myself, had it not been me standing there. It was just after xmas, maybe the TSA staff didn't get as much presents from Santa as they'd wished.
But I must admit that it did actually happen. The reason for me being undressed is that the TSA 'needed' to check my clothing for traces of explosives, and I don't fit in the sniffer.
Are you familiar in RDU? The glass-cabins just up the stairs where you're put on a chair when they check your stuff?
Regards,
P77
I had difficulty believing it myself, had it not been me standing there. It was just after xmas, maybe the TSA staff didn't get as much presents from Santa as they'd wished.
But I must admit that it did actually happen. The reason for me being undressed is that the TSA 'needed' to check my clothing for traces of explosives, and I don't fit in the sniffer.
Are you familiar in RDU? The glass-cabins just up the stairs where you're put on a chair when they check your stuff?
Regards,
P77
