BMI loses another manager
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The trainers at Baby are excellent. Might be nice if they had a training meeting sometime so they sang from the same hymn sheet.
They do not cut corners but are working flat out to maintain a level of crewing.
Baby has a problem with its management...they keep leaving. One guy now basically flt ops director, chief pilot, senior training Captain and we mustn't forget chief negotiator!
The pay deal for pilots (last years) still hasn't been sorted and the guys are getting fed up and moving on (BA & Virgin seem this month's favourites).
Pilots talk about their 'escape plan' rather than the future at Baby.
They do not cut corners but are working flat out to maintain a level of crewing.
Baby has a problem with its management...they keep leaving. One guy now basically flt ops director, chief pilot, senior training Captain and we mustn't forget chief negotiator!
The pay deal for pilots (last years) still hasn't been sorted and the guys are getting fed up and moving on (BA & Virgin seem this month's favourites).
Pilots talk about their 'escape plan' rather than the future at Baby.
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bmi is fine it's just keeping the competition guessing?
As usual bmi keeps everything close to its chest in the intrest of industry security sod the staff. No one knows whats going on everyone on line cares but bmi are as usual unable to comment or make any commitments.
bmi staff are told work harder as baby is doing great but mainline not very well, when NT was recently asked about the future of MAN longhaul due to the expected start up of the indian route he was quoted as saying 'bmi is commited to MAN longhaul but until the GOV make there decision we don't want to give away anything'. Give away what ask all the temp staff who dont know if they have a job in 2 weeks. This extra route requires another a/c or dropping existing routes it does not take a manager to work that out.
No wounder all the managment are leaving it hard t take seriously an airline that has no faith in its staff or vision for the future, not past tomorrow anyway, the staff have about as much faith in the D/H managment team as the D/H managment team have in us.
bmi staff are told work harder as baby is doing great but mainline not very well, when NT was recently asked about the future of MAN longhaul due to the expected start up of the indian route he was quoted as saying 'bmi is commited to MAN longhaul but until the GOV make there decision we don't want to give away anything'. Give away what ask all the temp staff who dont know if they have a job in 2 weeks. This extra route requires another a/c or dropping existing routes it does not take a manager to work that out.
No wounder all the managment are leaving it hard t take seriously an airline that has no faith in its staff or vision for the future, not past tomorrow anyway, the staff have about as much faith in the D/H managment team as the D/H managment team have in us.
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The pilots at bmi have always been unhappy.
The "illustrious" Chairman, MB, was always being quoted as saying that pilots grew on trees.....shake some if you start running short. He was also quoted as saying that they are "a bunch of moaners".
No acknowledgement, therefore, of any respect for pilots. Some would actually interpret the treatment of pilots as demonstrating something approaching hatred. I believe that to be an accurate description of the attitude.
The MB boast was that if the pilots were so unhappy, then why did'nt more of them leave.
Well, now Mikey boy, they are leaving and you're stuck with an ingrained malicious management system which you created and which may well see your little train set go off the rails.
I wonder if there's anything you can do about it.......I don't think you or your "management" have the people, or even basic management skills to begin to rescue the situation.
So, Mr MB, take your few hundred million quid (gifted from Heathrow slots and nothing else) go away (polite version) and let Dickie Branson or someone with decent management skills run the show instead.
The "illustrious" Chairman, MB, was always being quoted as saying that pilots grew on trees.....shake some if you start running short. He was also quoted as saying that they are "a bunch of moaners".
No acknowledgement, therefore, of any respect for pilots. Some would actually interpret the treatment of pilots as demonstrating something approaching hatred. I believe that to be an accurate description of the attitude.
The MB boast was that if the pilots were so unhappy, then why did'nt more of them leave.
Well, now Mikey boy, they are leaving and you're stuck with an ingrained malicious management system which you created and which may well see your little train set go off the rails.
I wonder if there's anything you can do about it.......I don't think you or your "management" have the people, or even basic management skills to begin to rescue the situation.
So, Mr MB, take your few hundred million quid (gifted from Heathrow slots and nothing else) go away (polite version) and let Dickie Branson or someone with decent management skills run the show instead.
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ACBUS1
Nice to see that your still as bitter and anti bmi as ever .
Having taken the time to review your postings it seems to date you have yet to post anything other than anti bmi vitriolic diatribe.
Maybe you should take some time to consider that your bitterness could be better channeled .
Please consider that your hidden agenda does nothing for your credibility within the Pilot community.
If you are so keen to work for Virgin might I suggest you review the Virgin.com website where you will find a list of current opportunities within the Virgin group im sure some of which will suitable. When your actions are those of a professional aviator you may care to make contact with Virgin at crawley until that time Virgin Trains or Virgin Mobile would seem a safer bet.
Once again please dont use pprune as a vehicle for your anti bmi feelings.
Had your posting have been made by any other forum user it would have had had credibility, sadly your previous postings have ensured that it is only viewed as the vitriolic rants of a bitter person.
Airbus
Nice to see that your still as bitter and anti bmi as ever .
Having taken the time to review your postings it seems to date you have yet to post anything other than anti bmi vitriolic diatribe.
Maybe you should take some time to consider that your bitterness could be better channeled .
Please consider that your hidden agenda does nothing for your credibility within the Pilot community.
If you are so keen to work for Virgin might I suggest you review the Virgin.com website where you will find a list of current opportunities within the Virgin group im sure some of which will suitable. When your actions are those of a professional aviator you may care to make contact with Virgin at crawley until that time Virgin Trains or Virgin Mobile would seem a safer bet.
Once again please dont use pprune as a vehicle for your anti bmi feelings.
Had your posting have been made by any other forum user it would have had had credibility, sadly your previous postings have ensured that it is only viewed as the vitriolic rants of a bitter person.
Airbus
Uncle Pete
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I spent many happy years working for BMA, as it was then, and have the deepest respect for MB. He kept the Company going though thick and thin whilst others fell by the wayside.
Yes, there appears to be problems in the middle management but when hasn't there been a divide and rule policy. No company is perfect.
Believe you me there are many companies out there than treat their staff like s**t and I don't just mean the airlines.
If you don't like quietly walk away and find another job, if you can someone who will have you. I suspect the perpetual moaners may be in the unenviable situation of being in a "black hole" and unable to move on. No names!
MP
Edited for spelling,again!
Yes, there appears to be problems in the middle management but when hasn't there been a divide and rule policy. No company is perfect.
Believe you me there are many companies out there than treat their staff like s**t and I don't just mean the airlines.
If you don't like quietly walk away and find another job, if you can someone who will have you. I suspect the perpetual moaners may be in the unenviable situation of being in a "black hole" and unable to move on. No names!
MP
Edited for spelling,again!
Last edited by MaximumPete; 25th Feb 2005 at 15:04.
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Maximum pete
I think your posting sums it up !
Have to admit i agree with every word!
MB has kept the company on course when others have lost the way , bmi isnt perfect but then I have yet to find any company that is ...
Remember the grass always looks greener till you have to live in that field !
As you say Uncle pete the perpetual moaners and purveyors of anti bmi vitriol are unable to move on !
Its good to see that since leaving the company you have kept your objective stance, Your missed pete, Fond memories of the F100 (Never thought I'd admitto that !)
Airbus
I think your posting sums it up !
Have to admit i agree with every word!
MB has kept the company on course when others have lost the way , bmi isnt perfect but then I have yet to find any company that is ...
Remember the grass always looks greener till you have to live in that field !
As you say Uncle pete the perpetual moaners and purveyors of anti bmi vitriol are unable to move on !
Its good to see that since leaving the company you have kept your objective stance, Your missed pete, Fond memories of the F100 (Never thought I'd admitto that !)
Airbus
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Dear Maximum. I do agree with many of the points that you have raised. My concern is not just with turnover of pilots but with its turnover of management. Why did PM,DO, CW,TD JR go? and now another good bloke. Rats and sinking ships seems the obvious.
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bm
Have to agree with Pete and Airbus even tho I left BM either ' under a cloud' or 'in a blaze of glory' or ' any other epithet you can think of'
Certain 'managers' didn't hold a skill set to be effective and the effect they had on perfomance and morale was enormous.
The training staff and shopfloor staff were terrific; a better bunch of folks you couldn't wish for.
Complaining about won't change anything; if you are unhappy with things either do something about it to make a change or leave. Simple. But stop whining.
Certain 'managers' didn't hold a skill set to be effective and the effect they had on perfomance and morale was enormous.
The training staff and shopfloor staff were terrific; a better bunch of folks you couldn't wish for.
Complaining about won't change anything; if you are unhappy with things either do something about it to make a change or leave. Simple. But stop whining.
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perhaps acbus1 had an unhappy childhood, or maybe a bad experience when unloading the bags, whatever the reason his posts always have the same theme and are not to be taken seriously no matter how "entertaining" they may be. Getting back to the thread, as long as SM.B is running HIS train sets (which HE has done very successfully over many years outlasting many other airlines) bmi and all the offshoots will survive, keeeping many of us in paid employment, doubtless there will always be the unhappy few wannabes who couldn`t make the grade and now think they have an axe to grind, so to you guys I say: GROW UP,MOVE ON and GO AWAY
(again the polite version)
ps see threads about easyjet, Ryanair,Emirates,and dare I say even BA to see that the grass may not be as green as you think over there!!
(again the polite version)
ps see threads about easyjet, Ryanair,Emirates,and dare I say even BA to see that the grass may not be as green as you think over there!!
Last edited by I.C.Nosignal; 25th Feb 2005 at 17:56.
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Pitch
The reason TD left for far eastern pastures is simple .....
He was head hunted to lead the start up ... having done it for baby . CW was head hunted by TD .
If someone head hunted you and offered you the package you couldnt turn down.... YOUD BE OFF !.
The reason TD left for far eastern pastures is simple .....
He was head hunted to lead the start up ... having done it for baby . CW was head hunted by TD .
If someone head hunted you and offered you the package you couldnt turn down.... YOUD BE OFF !.
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Airbus
When talking about head hunting you didn't mention JR!
If you are correct why did DO depart. Wasn't he chief training capt mainline? And PM ops director mainline. You can't tell me that they didn't know something!
When talking about head hunting you didn't mention JR!
If you are correct why did DO depart. Wasn't he chief training capt mainline? And PM ops director mainline. You can't tell me that they didn't know something!
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Think PM wasn't ops Dir but chief pilot, didn't he get tempted to the gulf by RH?
If he knows so much about the dark future of bmi, then that can't have been him at NEMA being interviewed for the bmibaby ops dir post recently????
Managers move around airlines trying to better themselves, just like management in so many other types of companies. If you have the ambition to be a lower middle manager somewhere, then you will probably have the ambition to be an upper middle one, somewhere else, with a pay rise!
More interesting question is, if these managers are all so useless, as has been claimed; how come they keep getting offered better jobs by other airlines?
If he knows so much about the dark future of bmi, then that can't have been him at NEMA being interviewed for the bmibaby ops dir post recently????
Managers move around airlines trying to better themselves, just like management in so many other types of companies. If you have the ambition to be a lower middle manager somewhere, then you will probably have the ambition to be an upper middle one, somewhere else, with a pay rise!
More interesting question is, if these managers are all so useless, as has been claimed; how come they keep getting offered better jobs by other airlines?
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Jees! Some of the posters here have'nt got much room to talk about being bitter, twisted and anti bmi!
I speak from the unpleasant experience of watching some of their weak and childish antics and mind games.
They know who they are (one hopes......otherwise it's called mental illness).
I'll use PPRuNe to convey the truth as I see it in order, amongst other things, to educate the viewing public. It's called freedom of speech.
Perhaps you'd care to try stopping me.
I speak from the unpleasant experience of watching some of their weak and childish antics and mind games.
They know who they are (one hopes......otherwise it's called mental illness).
Once again please dont use pprune as a vehicle for your anti bmi feelings.
Perhaps you'd care to try stopping me.
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The"truth" as seen through a distorted eye will always be just that !! Iwouldn`t want to stop anyone expressing an opinion (even if it is a little off the wall ) but there comes a time when the viewing public deserve better than a myopic view of a particular company given by an extremely bitter and twisted individual who really should get a life
ps mental illness is in the mind of the beholder (if you know what I mean)!!
ps mental illness is in the mind of the beholder (if you know what I mean)!!
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I'll use PPRuNe to convey the truth as I see it in order, amongst other things, to educate the viewing public. It's called freedom of speech.
Truth as YOU see it. Says it all! Bit embarrasing really, isn't it flower?
Moving on, I think the majority of rational people within the group realise that the reason Management are leaving Baby are not remotely linked to those that left Mainline over a year ago.
People move on for there own personal reasons, including those at the top.
The new Management at the group need time. Some will allow for that and some won't and that, again, is personal choice.
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acbus1
You mean the management have got the better of you hence your bitter twisted vitriol
Sadly your vision seems to be some what distorted . I fully support your right to free speech after all it costs nothing to have an opinion even if it distorted to meet your own agenda.
Sadly acbus1 you use you your own agenda in the same way a drunken man uses a lamp post ... For support rather than illumination.
Your continued vitriol only seeks to reinforce the poor opinion of you, held by your peers within the pilot community.
acbus1.. Im secure in the knowledge of who I am and if you were as secure you'd have the courage of your convictions to at least share your distorted short sighted opinions with me to my face if you dont feel confident enough to do this you can always call me.
Acbus1 i really dont understand why you continue this crusade of petty sniping and bitterness... As many posters have advised if your not happy walk away from it . Ill be happy to assist you in preparing a CV for a position more suited to you.
Until then you may wish to reflect on some of the comments made by other forum users who have also realised that your bitterness continues to provide demonstrative evidence of your state of being, I can only hope you do not display this behaviour onboard any aircraft . It is exactly your actions that lead management to label the pilot community in your words "Moaners".
Airbus
I speak from the unpleasant experience of watching some of their weak and childish antics and mind games.
I'll use PPRuNe to convey the truth as I see it in order, amongst other things, to educate the viewing public. It's called freedom of speech
Sadly acbus1 you use you your own agenda in the same way a drunken man uses a lamp post ... For support rather than illumination.
Your continued vitriol only seeks to reinforce the poor opinion of you, held by your peers within the pilot community.
They know who they are
Acbus1 i really dont understand why you continue this crusade of petty sniping and bitterness... As many posters have advised if your not happy walk away from it . Ill be happy to assist you in preparing a CV for a position more suited to you.
Until then you may wish to reflect on some of the comments made by other forum users who have also realised that your bitterness continues to provide demonstrative evidence of your state of being, I can only hope you do not display this behaviour onboard any aircraft . It is exactly your actions that lead management to label the pilot community in your words "Moaners".
Airbus
Last edited by Airbus215; 25th Feb 2005 at 19:24.
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Moaners and Whingers
Acbus1 sounds much like a previous poster who loved nothing more than to snipe at all things bma/bmi, particularly after he left. It couldn't really be the same person, could it?
Nice to see Maximum Pete giving a bit of credit to his former employer too.
Nice to see Maximum Pete giving a bit of credit to his former employer too.
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Wake up and smell the coffee
AcBus 1 you need a reality check.
Some of the middle managers may, in the past, have been less competent than was desirable but on his way through the trees MB has never lost sight of the wood and kept a lot of people in jobs.
bmi has a good product, excellent staff, a young fleet - and is my carrier of preference.
Stop knocking it - if you are unhappy leave. Come and see how it's not done elsewhere then complain.
Some of the middle managers may, in the past, have been less competent than was desirable but on his way through the trees MB has never lost sight of the wood and kept a lot of people in jobs.
bmi has a good product, excellent staff, a young fleet - and is my carrier of preference.
Stop knocking it - if you are unhappy leave. Come and see how it's not done elsewhere then complain.