The Emirates FACTS thread (merged)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dorset
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All this whinging about EK and work. I'm not sure anyone has talked about the rotating sceniority bidding scheme. Do you know, that when someone is in the top bid group, getting in excess of 18 days off is not uncommon whilst only working 70 odd hours?
In days gone by, no one used to whinge when they were in the bottom bid groups where they picked up the less desirable flights. It was a case of swings and roundabouts.
People are talking about being turned over on pay, pity we cannot show some of the paypackets being earned.
And oh such a pity that one has to go oneself to pick up a passport. Guess this is a little onerous when pilots are fetched and carried whenever on official duty!
The fact is that there is a small whinging minority group in EK providing a lot of wind and water. Unfortunately, the silent majority are just that silent. Perhaps this is the barometer that any sensible reader should consider???
By and large, pilots are well educated and sensible people, highly professional and highly responsible. Those that write such misinformed trash need to start thinking about leaving? They give pilots a bad name.
In days gone by, no one used to whinge when they were in the bottom bid groups where they picked up the less desirable flights. It was a case of swings and roundabouts.
People are talking about being turned over on pay, pity we cannot show some of the paypackets being earned.
And oh such a pity that one has to go oneself to pick up a passport. Guess this is a little onerous when pilots are fetched and carried whenever on official duty!
The fact is that there is a small whinging minority group in EK providing a lot of wind and water. Unfortunately, the silent majority are just that silent. Perhaps this is the barometer that any sensible reader should consider???
By and large, pilots are well educated and sensible people, highly professional and highly responsible. Those that write such misinformed trash need to start thinking about leaving? They give pilots a bad name.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: dubai
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
don,
You obviously don't work for EK, or at least, not as a pilot.
In any case, if you get EK to waive the training bond, I will resign tomorrow!
I hope that did not come accross too unproffesional or insensible...
You obviously don't work for EK, or at least, not as a pilot.
In any case, if you get EK to waive the training bond, I will resign tomorrow!
I hope that did not come accross too unproffesional or insensible...
Dorset Don...Spoken like a true EK Ops manager. Shows how clueless and out of touch they really are!
The only time you see 70hr block on a roster now, is on a month where you have taken two weeks leave. And unlike before, we no longer get paid for the leave!!
Don
The only time you see 70hr block on a roster now, is on a month where you have taken two weeks leave. And unlike before, we no longer get paid for the leave!!
Don
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All I know is I have three mates/ex colleagues who joined EK in a blaze of glory and are now actively seeking to get out or gone already.
Times seem to have changed there. Glad I resisted the temptation.
Times seem to have changed there. Glad I resisted the temptation.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ditto from me.......Was on the verge.........Then a friend contacted me regarding the deteriorating T & C's.....I also couldn't come to terms with my children over 18 having to leave the country.......At the end of the day FAMILY TIME is what it's all about.....a few bob in the bank is always bonus though
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow! as a new instructor hearing this, I am somewhat shocked. I was looking forward to working for Emirates. (key word WAS)
It seems like Emirates really needs to shape up and hire more pilots or give a better incentive package for the pilots they have pissed off already.
Is this the trend for most Asian airlines? Cathay has somehow managed to avoid this problem, what is stopping EK? (are they just plain cheap?)
Time to teach circuits
try to keep your eyes open boys.
It seems like Emirates really needs to shape up and hire more pilots or give a better incentive package for the pilots they have pissed off already.
Is this the trend for most Asian airlines? Cathay has somehow managed to avoid this problem, what is stopping EK? (are they just plain cheap?)
Time to teach circuits
try to keep your eyes open boys.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vne98
Yeah, Cathay avoided the problem by summarily sacking 49 pilots. That certainly sent the message out loud and clear to anyone in cathay who wanted to address their crap rostering and declining T & C's at the time.
Now several years later, the 49'ers have been all but abandoned by their union because they are becoming an inconvenience financially, and complicating the communication process with the company with regard to current T & C's.
So they have yet again proved the current managment and employee (pilot) theory. Rule by fear and greed. Divide and conquer. Seems to work everytime when dealing with a self centred workforce as pilots continually show themselves to be.
So to answer the question, yes this is how most Asian airlines are heading. To prove the point, we are still getting new joiners from many asian airlines. This only goes to show that despite the declining conditions at EK, it is still better than many.
Cathay and Dragonair are notable exceptions, not because their management is any better than ours, but because despite their recent turmoil, they are still getting paid at around twice what EK pilots are being paid
Yeah, Cathay avoided the problem by summarily sacking 49 pilots. That certainly sent the message out loud and clear to anyone in cathay who wanted to address their crap rostering and declining T & C's at the time.
Now several years later, the 49'ers have been all but abandoned by their union because they are becoming an inconvenience financially, and complicating the communication process with the company with regard to current T & C's.
So they have yet again proved the current managment and employee (pilot) theory. Rule by fear and greed. Divide and conquer. Seems to work everytime when dealing with a self centred workforce as pilots continually show themselves to be.
So to answer the question, yes this is how most Asian airlines are heading. To prove the point, we are still getting new joiners from many asian airlines. This only goes to show that despite the declining conditions at EK, it is still better than many.
Cathay and Dragonair are notable exceptions, not because their management is any better than ours, but because despite their recent turmoil, they are still getting paid at around twice what EK pilots are being paid
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is the thought going around that the 'management' are eroding T&C's to discourage pilots from UK, SA, Aus etc. from coming, so that they can employ pilots from other parts of the world who will be very happy to be in DXB for a lot less money.
There will be the inevitable smoking hole in the ground if they are not careful, but then again we know that it was ...."the will of..................."
There will be the inevitable smoking hole in the ground if they are not careful, but then again we know that it was ...."the will of..................."
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Solar System
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sluggums
So infact you are confirming that pilots from UK,SA, & Aus are generally avaricious and lazy in comparision with pilots from other regions, who are happier and thus more productive.
Must say sound judgment by EK management in that case eh!
'management' are eroding T&C's to discourage pilots from UK, SA, Aus etc. from coming, so that they can employ pilots from other parts of the world who will be very happy to be in DXB for a lot less money.
So infact you are confirming that pilots from UK,SA, & Aus are generally avaricious and lazy in comparision with pilots from other regions, who are happier and thus more productive.
Must say sound judgment by EK management in that case eh!
Last edited by VeniVidiVici; 24th Feb 2005 at 10:52.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No dopey.
What it says is that pilots from Western countries need to earn a salary that allows them to make provision for their commitments in more expensive Western cities, and/or for their own retirement in the more expensive West.
If they want a 3rd world workforce, then they'll get one - good luck to Emirates and their high reputation then.
We know what happened to Gulf Air and Korean.
What it says is that pilots from Western countries need to earn a salary that allows them to make provision for their commitments in more expensive Western cities, and/or for their own retirement in the more expensive West.
If they want a 3rd world workforce, then they'll get one - good luck to Emirates and their high reputation then.
We know what happened to Gulf Air and Korean.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
from the 3rd world
If they want a 3rd world workforce, then they'll get one - good luck to Emirates and their high reputation then. We know what happened to Gulf Air and Korean.
Are you serious?? So how do the airlines from the “3rd world” manage to survive? How can they operate up to ICAO/IATA/FAA/JAA/DGAC etc… standards and be productive?
Many of the “3rd world” pilots are working all over the world with the top 50 Airlines without having any problem; many of them hold FAA/UK or the local certificates and follow the same training and evaluations as the pilots from the 1st and 2nd world.
So please tell me how are pilots from the “3rd world” changing Emirates reputation? How are they different? Because they are working without complaining? Because they are following the contract and regulations?
Please I would like to know…
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Solar System
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maxalt
Hope that you by any chance are no where near Emirates' recruitment offices. ( considering your BIAS ).
Is it obligatory for employers to ensure that they pay their employees enough to meet the standards set out by you? Or should the salary structures be more in line with industry standards?
How you make your ends meet be rest assured does not interest any corporate board room.
Hope that you by any chance are no where near Emirates' recruitment offices. ( considering your BIAS ).
What it says is that pilots from Western countries need to earn a salary that allows them to make provision for their commitments in more expensive Western cities, and/or for their own retirement in the more expensive West.
How you make your ends meet be rest assured does not interest any corporate board room.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you mean to tell pilots from the “western world” “1st and 2nd world" workforce deserve a better salary and conditions because they are better??
And because Emirates will hire pilots from “3rd world” their reputation will suffer?
So please tell me how are pilots from the “3rd world” changing Emirates reputation? How are they different? Because they are working without complaining? Because they are following the contract and regulations?
Is it obligatory for employers to ensure that they pay their employees enough to meet the standards set out by you?
Or should the salary structures be more in line with industry standards?
How you make your ends meet be rest assured does not interest any corporate board room.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 25N5530E
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alfa Mike
Suggest you read some of the threads regarding EK on the Middle East forum. The Emirates contract and various regulations here have changed that many times in recent years, it is pretty difficult for anyone to follow them confidently. About the only constant is each change being worse than the previous version. Oh, and by the way, some of the individuals I have flown with who come from the regions you are defending, are complaining just as much as the 1st worlders!
Suggest you read some of the threads regarding EK on the Middle East forum. The Emirates contract and various regulations here have changed that many times in recent years, it is pretty difficult for anyone to follow them confidently. About the only constant is each change being worse than the previous version. Oh, and by the way, some of the individuals I have flown with who come from the regions you are defending, are complaining just as much as the 1st worlders!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Camelot
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EMIRATES taking the piss, again!
March rosters out and I see that I've "legally" been rostered 65 hrs in 12 consecutive days!
Does anyone else hear those HUGE warning bells ringing, or am I just another lazy pilot...?
Does anyone else hear those HUGE warning bells ringing, or am I just another lazy pilot...?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VVV, thinking isn't one of your strong points, I am from one of the countries that I mentioned in my post above.
Simply put some people from other parts of the world will be happier with less money. And as EK is run by bean counters, as with most airlines they will look at this option. Never let safety get in the way of profit.
MaxAlt.... excellent reply
Simply put some people from other parts of the world will be happier with less money. And as EK is run by bean counters, as with most airlines they will look at this option. Never let safety get in the way of profit.
MaxAlt.... excellent reply
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
65 hrs in 12 consecutive days!!!!! Dry yer eyes!
Try working 12 hour days for 21 days running! Thats what the hundreds of offshore workers have to do in order to keep your birds supplied with fuel!
5.5hrs a day! You're having a laugh mate!
Try working 12 hour days for 21 days running! Thats what the hundreds of offshore workers have to do in order to keep your birds supplied with fuel!
5.5hrs a day! You're having a laugh mate!