Ryanair launches legal action against pilots' union (merged)
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DFC, I held that very memo in my hand when I read it. It is real. The effects were real too. The one thing Ryanair does is to DELIVER on its promises of retribution.
But, judging from your response I doubt you would accept that my evidence here is as reliable as the facts you read in a "verifiable newspaper". What a strange attitude.
But, judging from your response I doubt you would accept that my evidence here is as reliable as the facts you read in a "verifiable newspaper". What a strange attitude.
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atse
- you is right my son, I don't know "what the perfectly reasonable terms and conditions” were.
At a guess though, they would go along the lines of:
"You toe the line, pay for your -800 rating, and don't cause any grief, and we'll pay you a living wage, a good wage even, if you continue to work real hard..."
plus
"Cause grief - and we'll do everything we can to make life so unbearable, you'll leave..."
Am I right or wrong?
- you is right my son, I don't know "what the perfectly reasonable terms and conditions” were.
At a guess though, they would go along the lines of:
"You toe the line, pay for your -800 rating, and don't cause any grief, and we'll pay you a living wage, a good wage even, if you continue to work real hard..."
plus
"Cause grief - and we'll do everything we can to make life so unbearable, you'll leave..."
Am I right or wrong?
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Aloue,
Send a copy of the memo to the Sun. They would jump at the chance to have a go at Ryanair...........then we can all have a read!
-----
zehutiman,
As a current professional pilot I am well aware of how things work.
My point regarding the baggage loading was in the main pointing out that Ryanair Management has not moved it's position despite the changing fortunes of the business.
However, while not making water available is illegal, there are very few companies that feed employees while at work. Don't forget that we are talking about pilots who wake up at home every morning and get home after every day's work and who fly short haul flights.
OK the schedule is amazingly tight. But are Pilots above bringing a packed lunch to work?
Since Ryanair at best have some Snacks and cold drinks onboard, would you seriously expect special catering ordered in for every flight so that the Pilots can eat it........or is it just for some flights - which ones then?
The whole problem with this whole shouting match is that to the outsider most if not all the arguments are rubbish!
Don't complain that there is no free food (see above about packed lunch) when the rules regarding breaks at work are in legislation.............30 minute break after 4 hours seems to spring to mind?..........make a proper case that people can see as justified and not simply "I'm above making sarneys in the morning".
It is rubbish like that and the intimidation of peple who may not share one's view of the matter that tarnish any true grevience that may exist.
At the end of the day we will never see a strike because BALPA and IALPA and REPA know that there would be absolutely no public support - The fire men got little enough of that recently and MOL is making it clear to the public that these pilots get 130,000 a year so who is going to think they are hard done by then?...........and that is why he says such things during interviews!
BALPA have to get the Ryanair thing in check - they have Easy sorted -
and the only danger sign on the horizon of senior pilot bliss is a Ryanair sytle management system in an established UK airline...............walk in Willie. 
Why don't a few -200 pilots call the bluff........after all they would get a nice redundancy package if they were an elderly long serving Captain and if they are as good as they say, and there is such a shortage of pilots, they must be guaranteed a job elsewhere..............I know that if I was in that position and conditions are as bad as one is lead to believe, I would jump at the chance to escape with a golden handshake and would not for one minute bother wasting time with arguments about having to pay for a new type rating!
Regards,
DFC
Send a copy of the memo to the Sun. They would jump at the chance to have a go at Ryanair...........then we can all have a read!
-----
zehutiman,
As a current professional pilot I am well aware of how things work.
My point regarding the baggage loading was in the main pointing out that Ryanair Management has not moved it's position despite the changing fortunes of the business.
However, while not making water available is illegal, there are very few companies that feed employees while at work. Don't forget that we are talking about pilots who wake up at home every morning and get home after every day's work and who fly short haul flights.
OK the schedule is amazingly tight. But are Pilots above bringing a packed lunch to work?
Since Ryanair at best have some Snacks and cold drinks onboard, would you seriously expect special catering ordered in for every flight so that the Pilots can eat it........or is it just for some flights - which ones then?
The whole problem with this whole shouting match is that to the outsider most if not all the arguments are rubbish!
Don't complain that there is no free food (see above about packed lunch) when the rules regarding breaks at work are in legislation.............30 minute break after 4 hours seems to spring to mind?..........make a proper case that people can see as justified and not simply "I'm above making sarneys in the morning".
It is rubbish like that and the intimidation of peple who may not share one's view of the matter that tarnish any true grevience that may exist.
At the end of the day we will never see a strike because BALPA and IALPA and REPA know that there would be absolutely no public support - The fire men got little enough of that recently and MOL is making it clear to the public that these pilots get 130,000 a year so who is going to think they are hard done by then?...........and that is why he says such things during interviews!
BALPA have to get the Ryanair thing in check - they have Easy sorted -
and the only danger sign on the horizon of senior pilot bliss is a Ryanair sytle management system in an established UK airline...............walk in Willie. Why don't a few -200 pilots call the bluff........after all they would get a nice redundancy package if they were an elderly long serving Captain and if they are as good as they say, and there is such a shortage of pilots, they must be guaranteed a job elsewhere..............I know that if I was in that position and conditions are as bad as one is lead to believe, I would jump at the chance to escape with a golden handshake and would not for one minute bother wasting time with arguments about having to pay for a new type rating!
Regards,
DFC
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DFC. A rather ineffective and revealing response I must say. But at least you have spotted a new arrival and provided him with lots of bait in the hope of taking the debate elsewhere and scoring the same ideological points as usual.
Your unwillingness to comment upon actual Ryanair management behaviour is very telling. You are part of the evil empire.
Your unwillingness to comment upon actual Ryanair management behaviour is very telling. You are part of the evil empire.
DFC - one of the nastiest little bits of work I have seen for some time..
"If pilots are stressed prior to flight the IAA/CAA requires them not to fly........if they ignore the IAA/CAA requirements then it is the pilot's fault........if they are dismissed as a result of not flying on safety grounds, they will have a field day in court..........provided they have the backbone to actually make that safety decision."
Even though I am not a professional pilot, I have been in such a situation myself (responsible for 20 million litres of fuel in an oil termianl) and I know what happens to people who stand up to companies over government rules and regulations.
Your attitude demonstrates that you are either absolute niave, totally stupid, or you exhiit the cynical psychopathology of Ryanaire management.
My guess is the latter.
"If pilots are stressed prior to flight the IAA/CAA requires them not to fly........if they ignore the IAA/CAA requirements then it is the pilot's fault........if they are dismissed as a result of not flying on safety grounds, they will have a field day in court..........provided they have the backbone to actually make that safety decision."
Even though I am not a professional pilot, I have been in such a situation myself (responsible for 20 million litres of fuel in an oil termianl) and I know what happens to people who stand up to companies over government rules and regulations.
Your attitude demonstrates that you are either absolute niave, totally stupid, or you exhiit the cynical psychopathology of Ryanaire management.
My guess is the latter.
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We (aviation docs) use four historical cases as the only known ones in cardiac/flying accident analysis. An almost insignificant (statistically speaking) number.
Do you know of more?
Do you know of more?
So are you suggesting that there was only one further case? WORLDWIDE? Insignificant statistically? Well give us the numbers, you obviously have them at your finger tips... on a pro rata basis...pilot cardiac arrests versus general population?
OK the schedule is amazingly tight. But are Pilots above bringing a packed lunch to work?
At the end of the day we will never see a strike because BALPA and IALPA and REPA know that there would be absolutely no public support
Why don't a few -200 pilots call the bluff........after all they would get a nice redundancy package if they were an elderly long serving Captain
Sheeeeeeesh.....!!
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Oh...of course not! But man does not live by packed lunches alone...unless he wishes to acheive the physique of a tub of lard, and the health consequences associated with it.
A few other sobering thoughts.
Even if the aircraft does carry some limited refreshments, they are probably off limits to the crew for flight safety reasons, in the same way that when crew meals were supplied for flight deck crew, they could not be identical, to avoid the risk of both crew possibly being incapacitated.
So, is it safe for the crew to use on board supplies?
Also, is it acceptable for crew to be forced to pay the through the roof prices that are charged for in flight refreshments, and do the crew want the quality etc that's on board?
Now of course comes the issue that really makes this complicated. I defy any crew member to get off the aircraft, get into the terminal and get to an ACCEPTABLE outlet, purchase something suitable, take it through security and get back to the aircraft, and then prepare for departure within the time available on most turn rounds. There's still the requirement to actually consume what's been purchased!!!!
It might have been possible pre 9-11, the chances of it being so now are almost zero. So, what are crew to do?
Eat nothing for their entire duty period? Dangerous, for all sorts of reasons.
Bring their own supplies? Possibly risky at certain times of the year, given the problems of keeping things cool and therefore safe.
Looks to me like this might just be a little more complex and serious that certain people would like us to believe.
Now why does that not surprise me
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DFC
As a "current professional pilot," you could very well be in a position to verify the FR "memos" existence through colleagues, peers, contacts etc. You could also remind yourself that several national newspapers covered the story on the "memos" late last August...
Yet with the stance you take, you allow the argument to descend into the same old "free food, free coffee" stuff that has been heard time and time again.
This is not the reason why this thread exists. This is not the reason why MOL has elected to take IALPA to court!
As an aside, the argument over pilots calling in fatigued is one that exists in every airline. A pilot doesn't have to work 6 sector days or multiple early starts or 900hrs a year to be fatigued at any one moment in time...however, bean counters do not see it that way!
The issue at hand is these "perfectly reasonable terms and conditions" that we have yet to see. I for one don't believe we'll ever see them - and in the meantime, we'll have FR bashing, pilot bashing, union bashing, and the real nub of the topic will never be addressed.
There are many potential MOLs out there, with perfectly reasonable terms and conditions they would love us all to sign up to, doesn't matter what airline or where. Without a collective and united voice, you will never stop the rot. The FR pilots have made a decision, they have my full support.
As a "current professional pilot," you could very well be in a position to verify the FR "memos" existence through colleagues, peers, contacts etc. You could also remind yourself that several national newspapers covered the story on the "memos" late last August...
Yet with the stance you take, you allow the argument to descend into the same old "free food, free coffee" stuff that has been heard time and time again.
This is not the reason why this thread exists. This is not the reason why MOL has elected to take IALPA to court!
As an aside, the argument over pilots calling in fatigued is one that exists in every airline. A pilot doesn't have to work 6 sector days or multiple early starts or 900hrs a year to be fatigued at any one moment in time...however, bean counters do not see it that way!
The issue at hand is these "perfectly reasonable terms and conditions" that we have yet to see. I for one don't believe we'll ever see them - and in the meantime, we'll have FR bashing, pilot bashing, union bashing, and the real nub of the topic will never be addressed.
There are many potential MOLs out there, with perfectly reasonable terms and conditions they would love us all to sign up to, doesn't matter what airline or where. Without a collective and united voice, you will never stop the rot. The FR pilots have made a decision, they have my full support.
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I defy any crew member to get off the aircraft, get into the terminal and get to an ACCEPTABLE outlet, purchase something suitable, take it through security and get back to the aircraft, and then prepare for departure within the time available on most turn rounds. There's still the requirement to actually consume what's been purchased!!!!
Thx.
Mo
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Joyce Tick says
You too must be Ryanair management. The idea that to make peoples “life unbearable” is acceptable is so much in keeping with Ryanair values that it looks like a “slam dunk” to me. One can only speculate what is mean by “causing grief”. Perhaps things like looking for the entitlements promised when one was offered the job?
"Right or wrong?" says Joyce. Well you are right - it is such a typically Ryanair response. And never an answer to a straight question if it would mean criticising Ryanair in any way. Looks like this is the "litmus test" for Ryanair management, its fellow travellers, apologists and ideologues - no criticism of Ryanair, even when pretending to be "independent" observers.
And zehutiman, that contains the answer to your question - as one of the Ryanair apologists says above, you have a legal obligation not to turn up for work sick/fatigued/etc. But, as everyone in Ryanair knows only too well, you discharge that legal obligation knowing that if you
Food + delay = grief (forget legal obligations). The answer to your next question is "no, the Irish Aviation Authority has no means of protecting you (and does not demonstrate much interest is doing so either)".
… "Cause grief - and we'll do everything we can to make life so unbearable, you'll leave..."
"Right or wrong?" says Joyce. Well you are right - it is such a typically Ryanair response. And never an answer to a straight question if it would mean criticising Ryanair in any way. Looks like this is the "litmus test" for Ryanair management, its fellow travellers, apologists and ideologues - no criticism of Ryanair, even when pretending to be "independent" observers.
And zehutiman, that contains the answer to your question - as one of the Ryanair apologists says above, you have a legal obligation not to turn up for work sick/fatigued/etc. But, as everyone in Ryanair knows only too well, you discharge that legal obligation knowing that if you
… "Cause grief - and they'll do everything they can to make life so unbearable, you'll leave...".
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Maxalt,
Salad won't make you fat, is good for you and does not have a problem with transport.
Why doesn't someone go and check out what the rules are regarding providing breaks to employees. There are mandatory breaks under EU law as far as I am aware. That is where one will find the answer to both issues - a break away from all tasks long enough to feed onself at one's own expense.
Who really gives a **** WHAT the public think? Are you suggesting they'd have more sympathy if we all earned 10K a year and lived on a council estate? Bollox.
Most people don't care where you live if you have a good case..................if you earn less than the average wage for doing a complex job then people will see the merit in your argument................if people are lead to believe that you are one of the country's top earners (brown envelopes aside) and moan about not getting free food or that as they visualise it - your sitting down zooming over the sky back breaking job is toooo hard then people will have no support.
If Ryanair pilots strike at Dublin for union recognition, will for example the brothers in the fire crew support their brethern who are being denided worker rights?.........not likely!............If baggage handlers on minimum wage and maximum hours strike then people can understand and may support the action.
The merit of your cases does not change but MOL is sowing the seeds in the public mind of fat cat salaries and easy lifestyle so that any disruption that can be pinned on pilots who will get no sympathy from the travelling public because of the propaganda.
EHHH??? Are you feckin dreaming? Micko is short of pilots...please explain to me why he'd PAY his people to leave?
Sheeeeeeesh.....!!
Because under redundancy rules, if the job no longer exists (they no longer can use the aircraft you fly) then the company can make you redundant.........but the redundancy requires compensation to be paid which depends on length of service etc..........thus he can either pay you to go.......or pay for the training required to keep you......................................................... ..........or if he thinks that he will get away with it........get people to pay for keeping the job that it would cost him money to get rid of.
That is why I think that regardless of the merit of the cases, the way in which the whole matter is being dealt with is simply perfect for on person - MOL.
----
zehutman,
There is no time in the current schedule - 20 minute turnround - park, paperwork, brief, push, gone........hardly time for another P.
The times are so tight that there was a complaint some time ago from Dublin ATC that pilots were calling clearance delivery for the outbound clearance while still taxiing inbound to stand!..........may not have been company policy but it shows how the crews felt they had to do things to minimise time on the ground.
The inability to get anything decent in the terminal is why I put forward the packed lunch idea.
-----
Mike,
After to have been to Spain and back, where do you go on the next sector?
Regards,
DFC
Salad won't make you fat, is good for you and does not have a problem with transport.
Why doesn't someone go and check out what the rules are regarding providing breaks to employees. There are mandatory breaks under EU law as far as I am aware. That is where one will find the answer to both issues - a break away from all tasks long enough to feed onself at one's own expense.
Who really gives a **** WHAT the public think? Are you suggesting they'd have more sympathy if we all earned 10K a year and lived on a council estate? Bollox.
Most people don't care where you live if you have a good case..................if you earn less than the average wage for doing a complex job then people will see the merit in your argument................if people are lead to believe that you are one of the country's top earners (brown envelopes aside) and moan about not getting free food or that as they visualise it - your sitting down zooming over the sky back breaking job is toooo hard then people will have no support.
If Ryanair pilots strike at Dublin for union recognition, will for example the brothers in the fire crew support their brethern who are being denided worker rights?.........not likely!............If baggage handlers on minimum wage and maximum hours strike then people can understand and may support the action.
The merit of your cases does not change but MOL is sowing the seeds in the public mind of fat cat salaries and easy lifestyle so that any disruption that can be pinned on pilots who will get no sympathy from the travelling public because of the propaganda.
EHHH??? Are you feckin dreaming? Micko is short of pilots...please explain to me why he'd PAY his people to leave?
Sheeeeeeesh.....!!
Because under redundancy rules, if the job no longer exists (they no longer can use the aircraft you fly) then the company can make you redundant.........but the redundancy requires compensation to be paid which depends on length of service etc..........thus he can either pay you to go.......or pay for the training required to keep you......................................................... ..........or if he thinks that he will get away with it........get people to pay for keeping the job that it would cost him money to get rid of.
That is why I think that regardless of the merit of the cases, the way in which the whole matter is being dealt with is simply perfect for on person - MOL.
----
zehutman,
There is no time in the current schedule - 20 minute turnround - park, paperwork, brief, push, gone........hardly time for another P.
The times are so tight that there was a complaint some time ago from Dublin ATC that pilots were calling clearance delivery for the outbound clearance while still taxiing inbound to stand!..........may not have been company policy but it shows how the crews felt they had to do things to minimise time on the ground.
The inability to get anything decent in the terminal is why I put forward the packed lunch idea.
-----
Mike,
After to have been to Spain and back, where do you go on the next sector?
Regards,
DFC
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Bickering
Ladies and Gents, Please, can we stop the bickering...
This discussion is not about whether or not we're complaining about no food onboard... if anything, thats the last thing any RYR pilot would worry about!... So lets move on...
and for the record, RYR never provided crews with food onboard...Rather they increased the salary slightly to compensate for this and instructed crews to make their own arrangements... this happened years ago...
DFC, your comments are mixed but still admittantly shed some truth on the situation... turnarounds are tight, with little or no time to prepare for the next outbound sector if anything 'out of the ordinary' should suddenly occour...
your right to note that MOL is posting the image of union fat-cats upon every press release Ryanair has ever publicised... it is his ultimate goal... but if things should ever get as far as industrial action, it won't be for any pay increases under the currrent situation, it would rather be for a more surprisingly modest demand that all employees in Ryanair be treated with greater respect, and be better considered by management...
sounds like a whimpy demand? perhaps it is, but if people are ever driven to be willing to all put their jobs on the line for such a cause, it screams volumes about how MOL and his cronies have been running the shop...
finally, yes, if MOL had a choice between keep people on the job or pay em off, he would choose to tell them theyre gettign the best deal paying for their own training to keep the job, and avoid paying them a penny shuold they be made redundant... Perfect example would be the BUZZ / Ryanair TUPE Agreement...
RYR management misleads its employees... they promise one thing but delivers exactly the opposite as they see fit. They dillude people by quoting extrodinary figures without the facts to back them up. The contort the truth and restrict open communications amongst pilots, giving different contracts to everyone to keep people from being able to see where they exactly stand. And finally they intimidate people openly, upholding a culture of fear, 'keeping your head low', so nobody will ever have the guts to question their actions and stand up for their own rights...
Sure, you can pack up and leave. But that takes 3 months at best to accomplish and causes great upheaval to your way of life. And then the danger exists that such management style is picked up by other airlines in their own bids to remain competitive against such 'stiff competition'...
Until last year the only reason people stayed was because the pay was enough reward to keep people from worrying about it too much. Now MOL has cut our salary and conditions in a time of the company's greatest growth ever, and we have absolutely no say in it.
Need examples of all that was said above? Just consider the fact that the only reason why the Dublin pilots have dragged Ryanair to court is in response to a threat of bringing the case that far by MOL himself. The Dubli pilots simply asked to see their contracts of employment themselves, a request to which the company has taken this course of action...
DFC, the truth is Ryanair is not the best paid company out there. They simply warp the numbers, make us believe things they see fit, forge our opinions of how the market really looks. And to think the best way round this is simply to go to work, get paid, and go home, leave ryanair out of your life, is a little naieve...
especially when nowadays a typical Ryanair day, in duty period, is stretching to as much as 12 hours, not including time before and after work.
and espcially when considering that your home life is run by what you receive from work and how you feel about your work. Whatever ryanair decides will always affect your home life, no escaping that.
Apathy will only lead to your own detriment, however the tables turn.
This discussion is not about whether or not we're complaining about no food onboard... if anything, thats the last thing any RYR pilot would worry about!... So lets move on...
and for the record, RYR never provided crews with food onboard...Rather they increased the salary slightly to compensate for this and instructed crews to make their own arrangements... this happened years ago...
DFC, your comments are mixed but still admittantly shed some truth on the situation... turnarounds are tight, with little or no time to prepare for the next outbound sector if anything 'out of the ordinary' should suddenly occour...
your right to note that MOL is posting the image of union fat-cats upon every press release Ryanair has ever publicised... it is his ultimate goal... but if things should ever get as far as industrial action, it won't be for any pay increases under the currrent situation, it would rather be for a more surprisingly modest demand that all employees in Ryanair be treated with greater respect, and be better considered by management...
sounds like a whimpy demand? perhaps it is, but if people are ever driven to be willing to all put their jobs on the line for such a cause, it screams volumes about how MOL and his cronies have been running the shop...
finally, yes, if MOL had a choice between keep people on the job or pay em off, he would choose to tell them theyre gettign the best deal paying for their own training to keep the job, and avoid paying them a penny shuold they be made redundant... Perfect example would be the BUZZ / Ryanair TUPE Agreement...
RYR management misleads its employees... they promise one thing but delivers exactly the opposite as they see fit. They dillude people by quoting extrodinary figures without the facts to back them up. The contort the truth and restrict open communications amongst pilots, giving different contracts to everyone to keep people from being able to see where they exactly stand. And finally they intimidate people openly, upholding a culture of fear, 'keeping your head low', so nobody will ever have the guts to question their actions and stand up for their own rights...
Sure, you can pack up and leave. But that takes 3 months at best to accomplish and causes great upheaval to your way of life. And then the danger exists that such management style is picked up by other airlines in their own bids to remain competitive against such 'stiff competition'...
Until last year the only reason people stayed was because the pay was enough reward to keep people from worrying about it too much. Now MOL has cut our salary and conditions in a time of the company's greatest growth ever, and we have absolutely no say in it.
Need examples of all that was said above? Just consider the fact that the only reason why the Dublin pilots have dragged Ryanair to court is in response to a threat of bringing the case that far by MOL himself. The Dubli pilots simply asked to see their contracts of employment themselves, a request to which the company has taken this course of action...
DFC, the truth is Ryanair is not the best paid company out there. They simply warp the numbers, make us believe things they see fit, forge our opinions of how the market really looks. And to think the best way round this is simply to go to work, get paid, and go home, leave ryanair out of your life, is a little naieve...
especially when nowadays a typical Ryanair day, in duty period, is stretching to as much as 12 hours, not including time before and after work.
and espcially when considering that your home life is run by what you receive from work and how you feel about your work. Whatever ryanair decides will always affect your home life, no escaping that.
Apathy will only lead to your own detriment, however the tables turn.
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Salad won't make you fat, is good for you and does not have a problem with transport.
Why doesn't someone go and check out what the rules are regarding providing breaks to employees.
DOH!
There are mandatory breaks under EU law as far as I am aware.
That is where one will find the answer to both issues - a break away from all tasks long enough to feed onself at one's own expense.
No?
Why did I think not.
Most people don't care where you live if you have a good case..................if you earn less than the average wage for doing a complex job then people will see the merit in your blah blah blah.
If Ryanair pilots strike at Dublin for union recognition, will for example the brothers in the fire crew support their brethern who are being denided worker rights?
The merit of your cases does not change but MOL is sowing the seeds in the public mind of fat cat salaries and easy lifestyle so that any disruption that can be pinned on pilots who will get no sympathy from the travelling public because of the propaganda.
under redundancy rules, if the job no longer exists (they no longer can use the aircraft you fly) then the company can make you redundant.........but the redundancy requires compensation to be paid which depends on length of service etc..........thus he can either pay you to go.......or pay for the training required to keep you......................................................... ..........or if he thinks that he will get away with it........get people to pay for keeping the job that it would cost him money to get rid of.
.................................................the job exists, according to them..........................you can spend millions arguing it in court if you choose.............................................who knows who'll win.............................and statuatory redundancy is a pittance matey...............................which is all you're entitled to.............................................lets not bother..............................................unionise instead!!!
That is why I think that regardless of the merit of the cases, the way in which the whole matter is being dealt with is simply perfect for on person - MOL.
Last edited by maxalt; 8th Apr 2005 at 01:30.
Just a numbered other
DFC,
You really don't understand the way this Loco thing works, do you?
As maxalt points out, the transport industry is exempted from just about all of these well meaning EU directives. Breaks, max working week........all dreams for the airline industry.
I'm not with FR, but another following sadly in its footsteps.
You try working four or six sector days with 25 to 30 min turnrounds, right up to, and sometimes through the legal FDP. I stress, as you seem to miss the point. There is NO time built in to these days for ANY kind of break at all.
Do it every day for six days. Then take two off, starting at 11pm, and back to work 0600 on day three.
Even if you can get to the shops to buy fresh food it will be either cold, or processed junk.
It is not impossible to provide crew food. Other airlines do it, (and, btw, I'm not asking for it free). The will is simply not there.
I don't believe you are FR management, just someone who lives in the old world, where gentlemen ran and worked for decent airlines; and passengers paid a realistic price to fly.
Days gone by, my friend.
You really don't understand the way this Loco thing works, do you?
As maxalt points out, the transport industry is exempted from just about all of these well meaning EU directives. Breaks, max working week........all dreams for the airline industry.
I'm not with FR, but another following sadly in its footsteps.
You try working four or six sector days with 25 to 30 min turnrounds, right up to, and sometimes through the legal FDP. I stress, as you seem to miss the point. There is NO time built in to these days for ANY kind of break at all.
Do it every day for six days. Then take two off, starting at 11pm, and back to work 0600 on day three.
Even if you can get to the shops to buy fresh food it will be either cold, or processed junk.
It is not impossible to provide crew food. Other airlines do it, (and, btw, I'm not asking for it free). The will is simply not there.
I don't believe you are FR management, just someone who lives in the old world, where gentlemen ran and worked for decent airlines; and passengers paid a realistic price to fly.
Days gone by, my friend.
Alba Gu Brath
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The original draft from the EU for working time regualtions for aircrew did contain a requirement for a break following 6hrs of continuous duty. Oddly, it was removed in the final version.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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As I understand it any company has a duty of care towards its employees. That duty include that you are properly fed and watered or have time set aside for you to get proper food.
Either the company provides you with food or it provides time on the turnround when you are free from all duties to get properly fed and watered.
Most companies accept that they would rather you keep at work therefore provide you with a meal. What they cannot do is expect you to work up to the maximum duty period but not provide you with food.
Either the company provides you with food or it provides time on the turnround when you are free from all duties to get properly fed and watered.
Most companies accept that they would rather you keep at work therefore provide you with a meal. What they cannot do is expect you to work up to the maximum duty period but not provide you with food.
I call you back
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DFC
There are mandatory breaks under EU law as far as I am aware.
The merit of your cases does not change but MOL is sowing the seeds in the public mind of fat cat salaries and easy lifestyle so that any disruption that can be pinned on pilots who will get no sympathy from the travelling public because of the propaganda.
Because under redundancy rules, if the job no longer exists (they no longer can use the aircraft you fly) then the company can make you redundant
That is why I think that regardless of the merit of the cases, the way in which the whole matter is being dealt with is simply perfect for on person - MOL.
An airline where the staff pay more than the customers to fly can only have trouble ahead.
sky9
Just read your post
"As I understand it any company has a duty of care towards its employees. That duty include that you are properly fed and watered or have time set aside for you to get proper food.
Either the company provides you with food or it provides time on the turnround when you are free from all duties to get properly fed and watered."
ho ho, ha ha ha, hee hee hee!!
what a laugh!
You've certainly got the necessary sense of humour for this industry.
You were joking were'nt you.
MOL for Pope anyone?
"As I understand it any company has a duty of care towards its employees. That duty include that you are properly fed and watered or have time set aside for you to get proper food.
Either the company provides you with food or it provides time on the turnround when you are free from all duties to get properly fed and watered."
ho ho, ha ha ha, hee hee hee!!
what a laugh!
You've certainly got the necessary sense of humour for this industry.
You were joking were'nt you.
MOL for Pope anyone?