PIA pilot fails breath test - Update - Not Guilty!

[Danny]

***WARNING***

The next muppet to introduce religion into this thread will get an automatic ban from PPRuNe. I am fed up to the back teeth with idiots who ruin anything posted on here with their prejudices and ignorance.

The religion of the pilot is irrelevant to this thread and no thanks to the dipstick who introduced the issue into the debate in the first place, as soon as you did that the thread starts to wander off into the murky arena of spotters and anoraks debating the rights and wrongs of different religious practices. So what if the pilot was or wasn't a Muslim? Have none of you ever heard of secularism? Are some of you so brainwashed by media hype that anyone of a particular faith has to be an orthodox follower of that faith? Give me and everyone else on here a break and go find yourselves an anorak website where you can go and debate your pathetic worries or prejudices and leave us alone on here to deal with every day real issues that affect aircrew.

I don't want to see any more posts on the issue of religion and what is allowed or not by it. The faith of the pilot concerned is irrelevant and I'll thank you not to bring it up on this website. Savvy?

[RoyHudd]

This business of the police acting on reports from hotel staff, bus drivers, and the like is becoming worrying. It appears that anybody who wishes to can make a nuisance call, and have a departure disrupted. And unnecessary suspicion directed at a professional going about his work. And unsettle the passengers on the flight. And upset the pilot concerned, who may consequently refuse to operate the flight.

(I am assuming that the police have tested many pilots and had 99% negative results)

Is BALPA doing much to ensure that the police act according to a national SOP in this area?

[cargo boy]

(I am assuming that the police have tested many pilots and had 99% negative results)

You know what they say about assuming!

Try "the police have tested very FEW pilots and had 99.9% negative results".

Once again, take the numbers of pilots taking control of a commercial airliner every day, multiply that by 365 and then compare that to the number of pilots breath tested every day and found to be over the limit and multiply that by 365 and then compare the two results. It's one thing to be breath tested and it's another to be found over the limit.

Now we wait for the inevitable chorus of the righteous brigade who will gladly throw away a few more of our civil liberties and demand that every pilot be breath tested before every flight. In reply will come the other chorus of the statistics brigade who will point out that you can count the number of airline accidents related to alcohol in the last 20 years on the fingers of one hand that has had an 80% amputation.

I think it's safe to say that I'm in the second camp. If you want to guarantee a 100% safety record in aviation... stop flying.

[Piltdown Man]

Thanks a bunch Matey (Touch'n'oops)! When you eventually get a job you will regret that suggestion. As you may find out, there are enough plonkers in Aviation Prevention (Security, Cleaners, Airport Operations, Loaders etc...) already. The risk to Joe Public is so small that it is not worth the effort for such a programme. A suggestion like that deserves you to be tested before you drive your car - every day, for life - because that is where the real risk is!

[bjcc]

So far as has been reported then 5 pilots have been tested, and 3 failed. That's 60% fail.

BALPA can try to make Police act is a SOP in that area, but BALPA don't make the decision, the police officer does. In any event is it right that a union should dictate what a police officer can and cannot do?

Sorry to say this, but welcome to the real world, where people do ring police about many things, some real, some not.

[RoyHudd]

Landmark, your mail is full of typos, indicating you may well be over the limit! The police have been informed anonymously, and are keeping an eye on your property in case you should decide to attempt to drive your vehicle in the next 12 hours.

Get my drift? There is nothing wrong with prosecution of drivers who are over the limit, be they motorists or pilots. But there has to be some form of organised procedure to prevent malicious or hoax calls being followed up on every occasion. Public hysteria and media piffle is contributing to this problem.

And I was not suggesting a union should devise procedures or laws, simply help the authorities tackle the problem in an advisory capacity from a position of professional expertise. (I am not a BALPA member, incidentally).

What does dissing mean?

[brakedwell]

Roy Hudd
I think "dissing" is a with it Chav word!
Nuff said.

[hobie]

"Dissing" .... To show disrespect to, often by insult or criticism

I wonder how I've got this far through life without ever running into the word

[Landmark]

Actually I had drunk a half bottle of wine when I typed that, then again, not sure being drunk in charge of a PC is an offence and I had no intention of driving.

Other than the very obvious ones, could you enlighten the emergency services on how to spot a hoax/malicious call.It would save thousands.

Somebody rings the police suggesting that a driver/pilot is drunk, then I would think the police are duty bound to make enquiries into it. Imagine the situation if something did happen and it was on record that the police had done nothing..............I think some people on this forum would be looking for the nearest rock to crawl under.

[stev]

drinkin

its far too risky to even smell a beer the day before dont care what they do. Dont put yourself in that position. Where could uot turn. Absoloutly

[VeniVidiVici]

I can SWEAR that yesterday i-e Monday I read a post here by the PIA pilot. It was his letter to his Chief Pilot Training, detailing the incident in MAN. It's surprising that the post has been deleted in totality. Yes it had the name of the MAN hotel and other names in it, but still this is denying information and a blow to free speech

[Captain Airclues]

VVV

I saw the post to which you refer. However, the post, supposedly by the PIA Captain, made some very serious accusations against a named hotel and it's staff. We cannot be suprised if the PPRuNe lawyers were not happy with this. I'm sure that he will be given the chance to prove these allegations in court, and if proved, they would make an excellent defence.

Airclues

[Margarita]

...he was complaining that this hotel has changed water for the wine.

[hobie]

It's surprising that the post has been deleted in totality.

I saw it too Ven ..... the problem with editing by "Mods" is that you then expect them to be "Libel Lawyers" and that is something they are not ......

The letter did expose another side to the story and let's hope it helps the guy expose the truth

[Danny]

The post was made but it was decided to pull it as it made certain allegations that couldn't be verified at the time and also had a lot of information including names of private individuals that had nothing to do with the core details of the incident. I will post the edited version here, shortly.

VERY SAD BAD NEWS MY FLIGHT PK716 POLICE ARRESTED CAPT.777


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Author Message
umar744
Registered Member



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feb 8, 2005

Chief Pilot Training PIAC
Karach i

Reference: PK 716, Feb 052005, Man-Lhe

Sir:

I had accompanied my friend Mr **** **** (deaf and dumb person), his wife and infant daughter alo.ng with a triend of Mr ****, Mrs **** **** also a deaf and dumb lady with a 9year old son, ****, and F/O **** for dinner at Hotel ***** at 1920 hours. The 9-year old son, ****, wanted roast lamb trom the buffet and I carved a piece for him. As I was doing this, the chef appeared and objected, saying that I have carved a double or triple piece and I was not allowed to do this. I told him that it was for the little boy and left 20 pounds with him for socalled damages although this was a buffet and we assumed that we could help ourselves to the food available there.

The chef complained to the police the next morning at 8:40 am after we had departed for the airport at 0830 AM. The Manchester police came to the aircraft at 1010 AM and said that they were arresting me on the complaint of the chef upon whose insistence they wanted me to take a breath test. This was done in the first class toilet, outside the cockpit. Then they took me to the police station for a blood test, as breath tests are conducted for road traffic violations. However, since 1 had not broken any traffic laws therefore it was decided that on the chef's insistence I should undergo a blood test. Please note that the Manchester police officers were unclear as to what specific charges under their jurisdiction they were arresting me for. Although I tried to contact PIA traffic and PIA Operations at Manchester airport, no one was available to me so I could point out these issues to them on the spot or the fact that the Manchester Police had entered a Pakistan aircraft upon the insistence of a British citizen and applied unknown/inapplicable British laws to me.

Furthermore, the management of Hotel ***** colluded in this plot to deliberately defame the airline as they provided my flight departure information to the police ten minutes after I had checked out. Given the strained relations between PIA and the hotel in view of past tensions and the early cancellation of contract with Hotel ***** , the management had incentive to defame the airline and its crew. It is quite possible that I was administered something in my food or water and coke over dinner the night before. I would also like to point out that the Hotel management did not approach me to resolve the issue or ask me my version; instead they took the extreme step of involving the police after I had checked out of the hotel.

This was a fabricated and premeditated case lodged against me due to racial and religious discrimination and motivated by the desire to defame the national airline.

This is being submitted for your information.



Capt ***** *****

Whilst the bulk of the content is left as was submitted, there is no independent verification that the post is in fact from the pilot concerned. Also, I ask that the muppets who are unable to control their bigoted and xenophobic urges to refrain from posting on this thread as deletion may offend! Stick to the issues related to THIS INCIDENT and keep it educated and calm.

[flystudent]

That's an incredible read...

So maybe one has to test oneself now in case the hotel is trying to shaft someone, or a hidden camera film crew is trying to shaft someone... or a receptionist at a hotel gets dumped by a pilot....and guess what... yep she's going to try and shaft him (or him/her) it really is getting silly.

I don't think it will be long before pilots check themselves out before report to be sure (even if they were being extra careful thinking they were drinking nothing 24 hours before). I understand that some airlines now have random testing of crew (not CAA/JAA) but the actual airlines themselves. Searching on google for breathalysers brought up a few products, one company of which is now advertising here on prune -Site

So even as JAR says, the prudent pilot should not drink 24 hours before a flight it would not have helped the above story if they were slipping him something!!

FS

[Few Cloudy]

Once again - now the names are anonymous - I know the Captain concerned personally and he is an honest, straight forward, friendly type.

I hope that justice will be done.

FC.

[FFFlyer]

A strange story- the chef (not the waiter or restaurant manager) complains you have taken some extra slices of meat so you give him 20 quid to shut him up - then he reports you! Are buffets really that expensive in Manchester? If it happened to me I would ask to see the manager and try to sort it out with him.

Would the chef really be able to insist the pilot was given a blood test? Normally that is up to the police or you can insist on it yourself. A policewoman friend once told me that if you fail the breath test then it is not wise to ask for a blood test as it normally gives a higher result.

[TURIN]

A policewoman friend once told me that if you fail the breath test then it is not wise to ask for a blood test as it normally gives a higher result.

Not if you are a borderline case as it could take an hour or so to get down to the station for the blood test. Meanwhile your body is doing it's best to remove the poison from your system.

Seen it happen.

[FFFlyer]

Depends on your stomach contents (food:alcohol), your body mass and your metabolism. The point she made to me was that the breath testers are set very much to underread your alcohol level.
Bit off topic, but worth remenbering when you have an extra shandy and are cycling home from your local!!!