FedEx pilots again reject ALPA?
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FedEx pilots again reject ALPA?
This is a copy of a post by a FedEx F/O to an AOL board on the subject of our independent union merging with ALPA. Since it mirrors my opinion, and permission has been granted I post it here.
Subject: ALPA is a bad idea. .Date: 1/23/2002 1:40 PM Eastern Standard Time. .From: DGEMPERLE. .Message-id: <[email protected]>
. . I'm adding to the debate. I'm very much opposed to the effort to reintroduce ALPA at FedEx. An independent FPA with over 96% voluntary dues paying membership is superior. I wrote out my specific reasons with explanations why and it turned out much too large to fit on this board. I arranged for a temporary webpage from a commercial communications company and. .posted it there for reading, forwarding, or downloading. I'll keep it there until the vote is completed.
The site is <a href="http://www.tuckcom.com/alpa" target="_blank">http://www.tuckcom.com/alpa</a>
Sincerely,
Dave Gemperle. .727 F/O. [email protected]
Subject: ALPA is a bad idea. .Date: 1/23/2002 1:40 PM Eastern Standard Time. .From: DGEMPERLE. .Message-id: <[email protected]>
. . I'm adding to the debate. I'm very much opposed to the effort to reintroduce ALPA at FedEx. An independent FPA with over 96% voluntary dues paying membership is superior. I wrote out my specific reasons with explanations why and it turned out much too large to fit on this board. I arranged for a temporary webpage from a commercial communications company and. .posted it there for reading, forwarding, or downloading. I'll keep it there until the vote is completed.
The site is <a href="http://www.tuckcom.com/alpa" target="_blank">http://www.tuckcom.com/alpa</a>
Sincerely,
Dave Gemperle. .727 F/O. [email protected]
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Many have assumed it is a done deal. I think Dave has done a great job of showing why it will be a bad deal. It will take a 2/3 vote of the members voting to make it happen. I think, and hope as the other side of the story is told support for ALPA will shrink.
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It's time all you yankee guys showed the rest of the world's pilots that the ONLY way to enhance the profession is to have a united association. Get everybody into ALPA. Then make sure it represents everybody. Any other course is stupid. Stupid. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
FEDEX pilots have told me a few times that the UPS pilots receive a better salary. As to benefits, I have no idea.
Whether that is true or not, if many FEDEX pilots believe that they should not be part of ALPA, then maybe ALPA should not have tried to let them into the union.
And if the FPA is the best union for FEDEX (I'm well aware of the many "rugged individualists" there who believe that they are white collar, and that their careers are bulletproof, while being ignorant of the devastation to our industry caused by Lorenzo and Icahn etc), then why do FEDEX pilots deserve the same pay and benefits as UPS pilots? I remember reading years ago about a very angry FEDEX pilot who challenged a pro-ALPA pilot to a fight with tire irons. Believe it was in the "Wall Street Journal". The macho gentleman must have been brain-washed into thinking that civilian pilots are white-collar folks, just like military officers. Such types must not be aware of airline labor history in the US, either.
Apparently, either the FPA doesn't know how to negotiate an industry-leading contract (or can't find true union solidarity) or Mr. Fred Smith doesn't really believe that "his" pilots deserve the higher pay in the freight industry. Or is it a combination of two or more of these factors? Over three years ago, I jumpseated on a few FEDEX flights and the crews were hospitable, although one Captain was a bit distant, knowing that I work for an ALPA carrier.
I realize that ALPA was quite aggressive and abrasive in its first attempts to organize over there. It appears to me that without serious concerns and frustrations among most of the pilots years ago, maybe they should never have attempted to bring in ALPA. Of course "the Commercial Appeal" newspaper never presents a balanced perspective, and it is likely that the editors might have filtered out some interesting info which (former writer) Mr. Hirschmann and others attempted to print.
Even on weekdays, there are so many widebodies parked in MEM, due to the postal contract. How does the extra flying change the situation?
[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]
[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>
Whether that is true or not, if many FEDEX pilots believe that they should not be part of ALPA, then maybe ALPA should not have tried to let them into the union.
And if the FPA is the best union for FEDEX (I'm well aware of the many "rugged individualists" there who believe that they are white collar, and that their careers are bulletproof, while being ignorant of the devastation to our industry caused by Lorenzo and Icahn etc), then why do FEDEX pilots deserve the same pay and benefits as UPS pilots? I remember reading years ago about a very angry FEDEX pilot who challenged a pro-ALPA pilot to a fight with tire irons. Believe it was in the "Wall Street Journal". The macho gentleman must have been brain-washed into thinking that civilian pilots are white-collar folks, just like military officers. Such types must not be aware of airline labor history in the US, either.
Apparently, either the FPA doesn't know how to negotiate an industry-leading contract (or can't find true union solidarity) or Mr. Fred Smith doesn't really believe that "his" pilots deserve the higher pay in the freight industry. Or is it a combination of two or more of these factors? Over three years ago, I jumpseated on a few FEDEX flights and the crews were hospitable, although one Captain was a bit distant, knowing that I work for an ALPA carrier.
I realize that ALPA was quite aggressive and abrasive in its first attempts to organize over there. It appears to me that without serious concerns and frustrations among most of the pilots years ago, maybe they should never have attempted to bring in ALPA. Of course "the Commercial Appeal" newspaper never presents a balanced perspective, and it is likely that the editors might have filtered out some interesting info which (former writer) Mr. Hirschmann and others attempted to print.
Even on weekdays, there are so many widebodies parked in MEM, due to the postal contract. How does the extra flying change the situation?
[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]
[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>
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Ignition Override:
The Union at FedEx is FPA, FedEx Pilots Association. IPA is UPS.
One of the reason ALPA wants us is money. At the present time FedEx pilots pay $11,000,000 in dues a year. The dues rate is the same as ALPA 1.95% of earnings.
Overall our contract may not be at the top of the industry, but I feel a lot better that our company is. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
The Union at FedEx is FPA, FedEx Pilots Association. IPA is UPS.
One of the reason ALPA wants us is money. At the present time FedEx pilots pay $11,000,000 in dues a year. The dues rate is the same as ALPA 1.95% of earnings.
Overall our contract may not be at the top of the industry, but I feel a lot better that our company is. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Foxhunter: Pardon my mistaking the name of the union. It must be dynamite to have no furloughs and the postal contract, with more daytime flights. Better job security can only be dreamed about among the passenger airlines.
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ALPAs mistake the first go around was that they thought simply get the contract and then the membership will follow.
They should have won the membership then the contract will follow.
The contract that Freds Plantation Assh*les negotiated sucks
Cheers. .Wino
[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: Wino ]</p>
They should have won the membership then the contract will follow.
The contract that Freds Plantation Assh*les negotiated sucks
Cheers. .Wino
[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: Wino ]</p>
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The contract that Freds Plantation Assh*les negotiated sucks
Cheers. .Wino
Interesting, how would you know? As usual we all have some complaints, but then we would not be airline pilots if this was not the case. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Last year I suffered a terrible wage of just over $270,000, have a 2% per year X years of service "A" Pension plan, 6%B plan, all unused sick leave paid into the pension plan. My vacation is 36 days, that is work days @6 hours pay per day. In other words if I wanted I could take three months off each year. We have NO pilots on furlough, actually still recruiting. Yes, some guys complain, and some have not a clue.
Cheers. .Wino
Interesting, how would you know? As usual we all have some complaints, but then we would not be airline pilots if this was not the case. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Last year I suffered a terrible wage of just over $270,000, have a 2% per year X years of service "A" Pension plan, 6%B plan, all unused sick leave paid into the pension plan. My vacation is 36 days, that is work days @6 hours pay per day. In other words if I wanted I could take three months off each year. We have NO pilots on furlough, actually still recruiting. Yes, some guys complain, and some have not a clue.
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George,
Actually, I am better qualified than you to judge.
I am an AA pilot, my wife is a FEDEX pilot. We have both been through many airlines before we got where we are. We didn't come strait out of the military or get our knowledge sitting around the water cooler drinking the purple coolaide.
We have direct side by side comparison's of living under both contracts and trust me, yours sucks. Maybe next time.
Cheers. .Wino <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: Wino ]</p>
Actually, I am better qualified than you to judge.
I am an AA pilot, my wife is a FEDEX pilot. We have both been through many airlines before we got where we are. We didn't come strait out of the military or get our knowledge sitting around the water cooler drinking the purple coolaide.
We have direct side by side comparison's of living under both contracts and trust me, yours sucks. Maybe next time.
Cheers. .Wino <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
[ 27 January 2002: Message edited by: Wino ]</p>
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Wino,. .I'm sure you and your Mrs. are most qualified.. . <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Suprised your not an ALPA member yourself. <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> Just like American FedEx pilots will do far better with their own independent union.
Take a look at what is happening over at Emery.
<a href="http://www.boxhauler.com/" target="_blank">http://www.boxhauler.com/</a>
Take a look at what is happening over at Emery.
<a href="http://www.boxhauler.com/" target="_blank">http://www.boxhauler.com/</a>
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Wino, this works better
Emery/ALPA Situation
<a href="http://pub19.ezboard.com/fboxhaulersplacefrm1" target="_blank">http://pub19.ezboard.com/fboxhaulersplacefrm1</a>
Emery/ALPA Situation
<a href="http://pub19.ezboard.com/fboxhaulersplacefrm1" target="_blank">http://pub19.ezboard.com/fboxhaulersplacefrm1</a>
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[quote]Just like American FedEx pilots will do far better with their own independent union.<hr></blockquote>
So how come Southwest has an awful contract? Southwest pilots have their own independent union. If being independent is such a good deal, why are they at the bottom of the pay and benefits barrel?
So how come Southwest has an awful contract? Southwest pilots have their own independent union. If being independent is such a good deal, why are they at the bottom of the pay and benefits barrel?
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If you folks at FedEx have not yet voted to go ALPA you better think long and hard about it!
As a “permanently furloughed” pilot from Emery, I would strongly recommend you take a look at <a href="http://www.boxhauler.com" target="_blank">www.boxhauler.com</a> there are numerous articles from newspapers like the Wall Street journal, USA Today and others about the issues with CNF (EWA parent co.) and the pilot group. Also a message board <a href="http://pub19.ezboard.com/fboxhaulersplacefrm1" target="_blank">http://pub19.ezboard.com/fboxhaulersplacefrm1</a> . After you look at that ask your representatives to ask ALPA and Duane Woerth specifically about the situation with the EWA pilots. Do it face to face and look into his eyes. Do they think he is telling the whole truth? Ask why the MEC, after being voted in for the second consecutive term, were dismissed, placed in to custodianship and placed a crewmember (who ran twice and lost twice for MEC chairman by a huge margin both times.) from Emery as custodian? Why did ALPA national (Capt. Woerth) choose him over the duly elected representatives? There were a lot of things forced on us by ALPA during negotiations and after the shut down. After all we were only 500 pilots flying cargo.
I strongly urge the pilots of FedEx to think with your brain not with your wallet! Listen to the pilots from Eastern, the first Continental, Pan Am and TWA. Ask questions, look at the past and listen to your heart. When things get tough who are you going to trust with your careers, your safety and your family? A union is only as strong as the membership and when it’s time to fight it’s easier to have those you trust completely behind you.
Good luck and best regards
As a “permanently furloughed” pilot from Emery, I would strongly recommend you take a look at <a href="http://www.boxhauler.com" target="_blank">www.boxhauler.com</a> there are numerous articles from newspapers like the Wall Street journal, USA Today and others about the issues with CNF (EWA parent co.) and the pilot group. Also a message board <a href="http://pub19.ezboard.com/fboxhaulersplacefrm1" target="_blank">http://pub19.ezboard.com/fboxhaulersplacefrm1</a> . After you look at that ask your representatives to ask ALPA and Duane Woerth specifically about the situation with the EWA pilots. Do it face to face and look into his eyes. Do they think he is telling the whole truth? Ask why the MEC, after being voted in for the second consecutive term, were dismissed, placed in to custodianship and placed a crewmember (who ran twice and lost twice for MEC chairman by a huge margin both times.) from Emery as custodian? Why did ALPA national (Capt. Woerth) choose him over the duly elected representatives? There were a lot of things forced on us by ALPA during negotiations and after the shut down. After all we were only 500 pilots flying cargo.
I strongly urge the pilots of FedEx to think with your brain not with your wallet! Listen to the pilots from Eastern, the first Continental, Pan Am and TWA. Ask questions, look at the past and listen to your heart. When things get tough who are you going to trust with your careers, your safety and your family? A union is only as strong as the membership and when it’s time to fight it’s easier to have those you trust completely behind you.
Good luck and best regards
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[quote]originally posted by 411A...but they ain't been laid off, have they?<hr></blockquote>
According to SWAPA a pilot could be laid off for 9 years at one of the leading carriers and still make more than a Southwest pilot.
According to SWAPA a pilot could be laid off for 9 years at one of the leading carriers and still make more than a Southwest pilot.
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levelfive,
True, SWA doesn't match the pay scales of many majors BUT before you (and I) get too comfortable bear in mind that SWA also doesn't have American Eagle, Comair, ASA, Mesaba, Mesa, Chataqua(sp?), United Express et al syphoning off its mainline flying, does it?
They'll have the last laugh at this rate!
Cheers,
True, SWA doesn't match the pay scales of many majors BUT before you (and I) get too comfortable bear in mind that SWA also doesn't have American Eagle, Comair, ASA, Mesaba, Mesa, Chataqua(sp?), United Express et al syphoning off its mainline flying, does it?
They'll have the last laugh at this rate!
Cheers,
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Anyone that is working for FEDEX or UPS or AA should count their blessings.. .If they think they have it so bad, Please switch with me for a few months, and then you'll have an understanding how the rest of the world lives.
From what I can tell, the Southwest pilots might not be the highest paid in the industry, but most them are HAPPY! they choose to work there knowing full well what they will be paid.. .Most everyone seems happy there, gate agents, F/A's, Pilots. . .Those folks that are making over 200 grand a year and are still bitching and whining, will never be happy!! I can gaurantee that!
One of the reasons that FEDEX wanted ALPA, was to try and gain a Cargo section of ALPA that would represent the special needs of night freight operations. There are many areas that need attention and if all the cargo operators were under one umbrella of a single union, we could affect some changes in the frieght industry through the political clout of ALPA. We have all heard the horror stories of ALPA not giving decent representation to anyone other than United, Delta, NW and the biggies, but haveing a cargo section that would be bigger than the PAX operators , maybe we could have some pull and respect.
From what I can tell, the Southwest pilots might not be the highest paid in the industry, but most them are HAPPY! they choose to work there knowing full well what they will be paid.. .Most everyone seems happy there, gate agents, F/A's, Pilots. . .Those folks that are making over 200 grand a year and are still bitching and whining, will never be happy!! I can gaurantee that!
One of the reasons that FEDEX wanted ALPA, was to try and gain a Cargo section of ALPA that would represent the special needs of night freight operations. There are many areas that need attention and if all the cargo operators were under one umbrella of a single union, we could affect some changes in the frieght industry through the political clout of ALPA. We have all heard the horror stories of ALPA not giving decent representation to anyone other than United, Delta, NW and the biggies, but haveing a cargo section that would be bigger than the PAX operators , maybe we could have some pull and respect.
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SWA guys work pretty hard for their money. Yes, it is below "standard", but the stock incentives are pretty good. SWA is also very stable. Further, I wouldn't say that the pilots are all sitting around the campfire singing kum ba ya. In future negotiations, I think we're going to see them pushing hard for more standard compensation in line with other majors.