Trouble Brewing at CitiExpress
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I dont think you will find that the Industrial action is limited to Manchester.
Even the usual head-down merchants have been absolutely rocked by the revelation that management can even attempt to behave like this...................The rest of us have just had enough.
So far as Dash 7 is concerned, his credentials speak for themselves. ("Fraggle Rock" to those of you who dont know is the Isle of Man from whence most of current management eminate and their mangement skills were honed at the academy of bullies. The BA management parachutees apparently felt an affinity to these techniques and subsequently nurtured and adopted them)
Even the usual head-down merchants have been absolutely rocked by the revelation that management can even attempt to behave like this...................The rest of us have just had enough.
So far as Dash 7 is concerned, his credentials speak for themselves. ("Fraggle Rock" to those of you who dont know is the Isle of Man from whence most of current management eminate and their mangement skills were honed at the academy of bullies. The BA management parachutees apparently felt an affinity to these techniques and subsequently nurtured and adopted them)
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Dash 7 Lover.
I think you are confusing the pilots with some other staff. So far, the pilots have clearly rejected the 2.5% offer. I guess you are one of the managers who were frantically running around telling everyone that “management never said there wouldn’t be a pay rise” followed by claims that the company was actually offering more than BALPA was asking for. Yea right!
As for Tiny’s comments about the bully boys from Craggy Island:- all true.
The head prefect has long presided over a training system which allocates grading scores over an above the usual pass / fail. For far too long, senior managers and trainers have completely discredited their own system by awarding themselves and their mates grossly over the top scores. Line pilots struggle to get a row off C’s (average), FO’s see their promotion and career dashed by a D, whilst the mob pair themselves up with their usual simulator chum an despite flying very little miraculously pull off a row of Bs with a smattering of perfect A’s. Not only are they undermining the good work of the majority of conscientious hard working dedicated trainers, they are abusing the power and authority vested in them by the CAA.
When trainers are actually teamed up with FO’s in the simulator or for a line check, time and time again, the FO witness the understandably rusty trainer making the same mistakes (retake errors) that the rest of us humans make, only to see the trainer awarded the usual above average row of B’s. Many trainers are embarrassed about this, but this is the culture, they know how they are expected to behave and what is required if they are to keep their position or achieve TRE status.
At the end of the day, most line pilots accept that trainers and managers don’t do much flying and are therefore with the odd exception, they are likely to be a little rusty and only produce an average performance. No one would laugh just because they could only pull of an average performance.
So, Dash, I could be wrong, we could be extremely lucky, our management selection system could have been so good that without exception, all senior managers and trainers also happen to be pure dead brilliant pilots as well as top leaders. It could happen, just as I could win the lottery next week. Sadly, this is unlikely to be the case.
Training should be a full time dedicated post and not something that managers dip into from time to time just to improve their status, title, pay and CV.
I think you are confusing the pilots with some other staff. So far, the pilots have clearly rejected the 2.5% offer. I guess you are one of the managers who were frantically running around telling everyone that “management never said there wouldn’t be a pay rise” followed by claims that the company was actually offering more than BALPA was asking for. Yea right!
As for Tiny’s comments about the bully boys from Craggy Island:- all true.
The head prefect has long presided over a training system which allocates grading scores over an above the usual pass / fail. For far too long, senior managers and trainers have completely discredited their own system by awarding themselves and their mates grossly over the top scores. Line pilots struggle to get a row off C’s (average), FO’s see their promotion and career dashed by a D, whilst the mob pair themselves up with their usual simulator chum an despite flying very little miraculously pull off a row of Bs with a smattering of perfect A’s. Not only are they undermining the good work of the majority of conscientious hard working dedicated trainers, they are abusing the power and authority vested in them by the CAA.
When trainers are actually teamed up with FO’s in the simulator or for a line check, time and time again, the FO witness the understandably rusty trainer making the same mistakes (retake errors) that the rest of us humans make, only to see the trainer awarded the usual above average row of B’s. Many trainers are embarrassed about this, but this is the culture, they know how they are expected to behave and what is required if they are to keep their position or achieve TRE status.
At the end of the day, most line pilots accept that trainers and managers don’t do much flying and are therefore with the odd exception, they are likely to be a little rusty and only produce an average performance. No one would laugh just because they could only pull of an average performance.
So, Dash, I could be wrong, we could be extremely lucky, our management selection system could have been so good that without exception, all senior managers and trainers also happen to be pure dead brilliant pilots as well as top leaders. It could happen, just as I could win the lottery next week. Sadly, this is unlikely to be the case.
Training should be a full time dedicated post and not something that managers dip into from time to time just to improve their status, title, pay and CV.
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Rhythm method
Thank you.
I am not here to simply wind people up, and if you looked to my posting history, you would see I am both supportive, and sympathetic to many issues currently ongoing in BACX. I simply have no personal experience of any pressure whatever being put on me to work into discretion. I hope, and believe the management are too sophisticated for that. I say again, this is not MOL we are dealing with!
Which is why I wonder, is this case different?
I am however staggered by the level of personal abuse dished out by people who apparently work for BACX.
Incidentally:
'give me an axe'
You may wish to check out www.britishairwaysjobs.com!
It would seem if you have 500hrs, or 100 sectors, on a turbojet, or turboprop, of over 10 tonnes, your 'ship' just came in!
Exactly as I said on the 8th Oct, on this thread!
Good luck!
Thank you.
I am not here to simply wind people up, and if you looked to my posting history, you would see I am both supportive, and sympathetic to many issues currently ongoing in BACX. I simply have no personal experience of any pressure whatever being put on me to work into discretion. I hope, and believe the management are too sophisticated for that. I say again, this is not MOL we are dealing with!
Which is why I wonder, is this case different?
I am however staggered by the level of personal abuse dished out by people who apparently work for BACX.
Incidentally:
'give me an axe'
You may wish to check out www.britishairwaysjobs.com!
It would seem if you have 500hrs, or 100 sectors, on a turbojet, or turboprop, of over 10 tonnes, your 'ship' just came in!
Exactly as I said on the 8th Oct, on this thread!
Good luck!
Thread Starter
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I simply have no personal experience of any pressure whatever being put on me to work into discretion. I hope, and believe the management are too sophisticated for that. I say again, this is not MOL we are dealing with!
Your naievety is breathtaking TR.
Once again you demonstrate that you are on a different planet from the rest of us CX pilots.
So far as trumpetting that "Our ship has come in" over access to BA. Again your desire to take the mangement line hook line and sinker (well you would wouldn't you as you are one of TDF's special secondee boys whom he looks after so very well).
The reality is somewhat different.
The " offer " is actualy a totaly cynical smokescreen to give the illusion that some status attaches to being a BACX pilot, when in reality it does not.
There is a body of violently anti BACX pilots in mangement of BA one senior one of whom is on record as saying "over my dead body will CX pilots have access to BA"
The offer confers no material advantage whatsoever.
It is not based on seniority.(thereby extremely divisive.........here we go again the BA preferred device of "divide and rule")
All the BA psychometric tests have to be done.
THe BA sim assessment has to be done.
There is the interview to check that you are the "right stuff"
So even if you are a trainer who has trained your many BA cadets who we looked after, you still have to go through all the above.
Oh yes, get this..................If you are accepted by BA and fail to subsequently make the grade then CX will not have you back!
Open your eyes Tandem Rotor. You are no friend to CX pilots.
Hopefully this discretion malarky is coming to a head soon.
Doubtless management will try to slip out the backdoor with a "no case to answer"..................well TDF and co, dont think you are going to get away with it.
Nothing less than a full retraction and apology with compensation for the victim will satisfy us.
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As a mere observer I must point out that at LHR BA is big on 'Equality and Diversity'. Sadly it does not seem to be the case for yourselves in one or two of these threads. Surely it should be the same for both.
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It would be better to start a new thread if the issue is more one of CitiExpress versus mainline flight crew and previous history. But just a word of caution the presence of mainline pilots is really a sideshow to the main event.
Specifically can your managment run CitiExpress effectively? TDLF's performance suggests otherwise and the suspension of this Captain appears typically heavy handed.
There are two dangers. First, CRM and general team work appear to be strained between the two communities. Don't let this end in a serious incident. Second while all of this arguing is going on the management at LHR might quietly be arranging to hand over work/aircraft to someone else.
If you want to make a go of CitiExpress deal with the management issues/mistakes etc. Get this Captain back on duty and try and speak to Head Office not TDLF.
Good Luck BP
Specifically can your managment run CitiExpress effectively? TDLF's performance suggests otherwise and the suspension of this Captain appears typically heavy handed.
There are two dangers. First, CRM and general team work appear to be strained between the two communities. Don't let this end in a serious incident. Second while all of this arguing is going on the management at LHR might quietly be arranging to hand over work/aircraft to someone else.
If you want to make a go of CitiExpress deal with the management issues/mistakes etc. Get this Captain back on duty and try and speak to Head Office not TDLF.
Good Luck BP
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Discretion
Just for the record (and original thread lead....) can someone clarify the point of "planned" discretion?
i.e. 4 sector day, starting and finishing at home base. By leaving home base to complete sector 3 you know you may/will need to use discretion to complete sector 4 to return home.
Is this "planned" or not?
i.e. 4 sector day, starting and finishing at home base. By leaving home base to complete sector 3 you know you may/will need to use discretion to complete sector 4 to return home.
Is this "planned" or not?
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There are two dangers. First, CRM and general team work appear to be strained between the two communities. Don't let this end in a serious incident
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Completely OT, I know, but more morale boosting news today with the arrival of the 'Bid' letter; 2 Dash 8s gets the chop at SOU (tho' the lucky few get a jet salary), the 146 fleet might go and of course everybody will flock to the 145 going into BRS which might last 6 months or until the next management team brainfart, whichever is the sooner. The whole letter was littered with the get outs 'latest plans' and 'things could change at short notice' - and these buffoons are expecting the guys and girls to make potentially life changing decisions based on nothing more than the latest 'good idea'.The shambles continues and this debacle over 'discretion' is simply symptomatic of the base levels to which the company has sunk in such a short period of time.
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I was told BRU will stop, and MAN go to the ERJ. However, we know EDI & GLA lose money because of lack of marketing and support. They are only kept going to prevent even more FlyBe expansion, but that won't work. FlyBe (unfortunately for us) have shown how agressive marketing of a consistent product works. BA have no idea, unless it be constant retreat.
What's this about the 146 Fleet going, I hadn't heard that one! Does that mean the Rock is finally for the chop?
On thread, as it were, does else anyone else think the whole discretion business was actually an example of intimidation aimed at bullying crews into more submission? Well done Maam, they picked the wrong lady and the wrong pilot workforce.
(Note I got through an entire post without slagging BA mainline pilots - amazing, I must keep taking the pills!
)
What's this about the 146 Fleet going, I hadn't heard that one! Does that mean the Rock is finally for the chop?
On thread, as it were, does else anyone else think the whole discretion business was actually an example of intimidation aimed at bullying crews into more submission? Well done Maam, they picked the wrong lady and the wrong pilot workforce.
(Note I got through an entire post without slagging BA mainline pilots - amazing, I must keep taking the pills!
)
I suggest you all get out of CitiExpress at you first opportunity. I did 2 years ago when you all got your first shafting.
I have never looked back and now with the future orange, I wish I made the move years ago.
Good luck guys, your all going to need it.
(Damian, forget about having BA painted on the side of your aircraft, time to move on pal! Still using the Rhythm method?)
I have never looked back and now with the future orange, I wish I made the move years ago.
Good luck guys, your all going to need it.
(Damian, forget about having BA painted on the side of your aircraft, time to move on pal! Still using the Rhythm method?)
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I suggest you all get out of CitiExpress at you first opportunity.
I did 2 years ago when you all got your first shafting.I have never looked back and now with the future orange, I wish I made the move years ago.
Good luck guys, your all going to need it.
I did 2 years ago when you all got your first shafting.I have never looked back and now with the future orange, I wish I made the move years ago.
Good luck guys, your all going to need it.
I don't think i'd be wanting to wear orange in the next few years.
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As a member of the flight crew community I have always found it easy to deal directly with the 'management'. On the occasions I have had to deal with them they have been both sympathetic and understanding of my views. As such solutions to my issues have been found in a positive and agreable manner.
As a few have already said it is a shame a small minority feel the need to personalise thier thoughts against others. In my view this not only demeans us in CX but aired in such a public manner does little for our status in the wider community.
With reference to the recent incident of a Captain being suspended, I doubt either we or the management have the full picture of what actually happened. As such is it right that we are effectively prejudging the outcome ?
In my short experience as long I can justify my actions I feel I have little to worry about.
As a few have already said it is a shame a small minority feel the need to personalise thier thoughts against others. In my view this not only demeans us in CX but aired in such a public manner does little for our status in the wider community.
With reference to the recent incident of a Captain being suspended, I doubt either we or the management have the full picture of what actually happened. As such is it right that we are effectively prejudging the outcome ?
In my short experience as long I can justify my actions I feel I have little to worry about.
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
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I have personal experience of working for TDF and I happen to know that he is not the honourable gentleman he likes to think he is. He is also a 'bender of the truth'. Don't think that's swearing is it? My advise to any pilot with BACX, get another job asap. If all you BACX lads have any balls then you will walk out in protest of this outrageous behaviour. This jerk needs to be taught a lesson.