Assault on Aer Arann flight_14/08/2004
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Assault on Aer Arann flight_14/08/2004
From iol.ie and various Irish press.
"Two men are to appear at Dublin District Court in relation to an alleged assault on board an Aer Arann plane.
The men were arrested at Dublin airport yesterday (14/08/2004) afternoon before the plane, which was bound for Cork, took off.
The captain of the plane is said to have suffered a broken nose and another man was injured in the incident.
The two have been charged under the Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act and have been released on bail.
They are due to appear before Dublin District Court
at a later date."
Anyone know any further details about the incident??
Simon.
"Two men are to appear at Dublin District Court in relation to an alleged assault on board an Aer Arann plane.
The men were arrested at Dublin airport yesterday (14/08/2004) afternoon before the plane, which was bound for Cork, took off.
The captain of the plane is said to have suffered a broken nose and another man was injured in the incident.
The two have been charged under the Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act and have been released on bail.
They are due to appear before Dublin District Court
at a later date."
Anyone know any further details about the incident??
Simon.
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Someone punched a pilot of a commercial airliner and hes released in bail?????Only in this bloody country!
I really do hope theres more to this storey which may shed a bit of light cos otherwise my off the shot presumption will only make me more angry!!!
I really do hope theres more to this storey which may shed a bit of light cos otherwise my off the shot presumption will only make me more angry!!!
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RE assault.
It's a sad day to see this type of thing to happen.I work in Dublin airport and I was working on this day.I've heard from a reliable source that the men involved are from the travelling community. After they made the assault,they tried to make a run,but were caught by airport police.I may also add that this incident took place on a remote stand and the outcome could have been 10 times worse.
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I believe that the pair in question refused to comply with the CC while the plane was still on the tarmac, the captain came out & asked them to leave the aircraft, then he was punched in the face. The captain had to be ambulenced to a local hospital with a 'suspected' broken nose.
Lets hope these pair get the book thrown at them.
Lets hope these pair get the book thrown at them.
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If this had happened on an FAA registered aircraft operated by a US carrier (in the USA), the pair would have been arrested and charged with assult and interfering with an air crew member.
No bail would be allowed, I think.
A minimum of ten years in a federal lock-up would be the likely result.
No bail would be allowed, I think.
A minimum of ten years in a federal lock-up would be the likely result.
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Edit...
Weak gag aimed at the the fact that certain Irish airline management are determined to treat captains as poorly as these 2 scrotes did deleted at the request of an impressively humour free poster below.
Weak gag aimed at the the fact that certain Irish airline management are determined to treat captains as poorly as these 2 scrotes did deleted at the request of an impressively humour free poster below.
Last edited by Stu Bigzorst; 16th Aug 2004 at 08:44.
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apaddyinuk
When you say Only in this bloody country!, do you mean the UK? You are London based...
If so , then casting that aspersion on the UK is incorrect as the incident occured in Eire...
I guess the question is have the perpetrators of this action been treated any differently to if the had punched a man in the face anywhere else - e.g. the street ?
Also, if the incident had occurred in the UK, I wonder if they would have been treated any differently?
Stu Bigzorst
That comment is puerile, irrelevant to this thread, and should be deleted. (Which is what Stu Bigzorst did, so thanks.
A serious subject, so was not the place for a weak gag, and therefore no apologies for being an 'impressively humour free poster'... )
Half a Mexican
Nil ?
When you say Only in this bloody country!, do you mean the UK? You are London based...
If so , then casting that aspersion on the UK is incorrect as the incident occured in Eire...
I guess the question is have the perpetrators of this action been treated any differently to if the had punched a man in the face anywhere else - e.g. the street ?
Also, if the incident had occurred in the UK, I wonder if they would have been treated any differently?
Stu Bigzorst
That comment is puerile, irrelevant to this thread, and should be deleted. (Which is what Stu Bigzorst did, so thanks.
A serious subject, so was not the place for a weak gag, and therefore no apologies for being an 'impressively humour free poster'... )
Half a Mexican
Nil ?
Last edited by jetstream7; 16th Aug 2004 at 10:08.
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Unison reports
AN airline pilot suffered a broken nose and a flight despatcher was knocked to the ground during an "air-rage" row at Dublin Airport.
The fracas happened on board a 66-seat Aer Arann ATR-72 plane at the airport on Saturday afternoon.
The twin turbo-prop aircraft, flight RE 623 from Dublin to Cork, was due to depart at 2.30pm but was delayed by 1½ hours because of the incident.
"Air-rage incidents on domestic flights are extremely rare. You hear about them on international flights.
"This is the first we've had to deal with on Aer Arann," an airline spokesperson said.
The aircraft's captain was taken to Beaumont Hospital, where X-rays showed he had sustained a fractured nose.
None of the cabin crew was hurt during the incident on board the aircraft, which was on its stand at the airport.
Airport police were summoned to the aircraft and gardai became involved later, a spokesman said.
Two men, both from Cork and in their early 20s, were arrested and brought to Whitehall garda station.
Two men were later charged in connection with the incident under Section 3 of the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act and released on bail.
They are due to appear at Dublin District Court on Monday, September 13
AN airline pilot suffered a broken nose and a flight despatcher was knocked to the ground during an "air-rage" row at Dublin Airport.
The fracas happened on board a 66-seat Aer Arann ATR-72 plane at the airport on Saturday afternoon.
The twin turbo-prop aircraft, flight RE 623 from Dublin to Cork, was due to depart at 2.30pm but was delayed by 1½ hours because of the incident.
"Air-rage incidents on domestic flights are extremely rare. You hear about them on international flights.
"This is the first we've had to deal with on Aer Arann," an airline spokesperson said.
The aircraft's captain was taken to Beaumont Hospital, where X-rays showed he had sustained a fractured nose.
None of the cabin crew was hurt during the incident on board the aircraft, which was on its stand at the airport.
Airport police were summoned to the aircraft and gardai became involved later, a spokesman said.
Two men, both from Cork and in their early 20s, were arrested and brought to Whitehall garda station.
Two men were later charged in connection with the incident under Section 3 of the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act and released on bail.
They are due to appear at Dublin District Court on Monday, September 13
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Two men were later charged in connection with the incident under Section 3 of the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act and released on bail.
I'd have thought there was a book they could throw at them. And how in hell did they get bailed? One, they're 'travellers' so likely to never be seen again, and two, they *must* be going down for a fair time anyway?
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Best available info at this point:
There was a serious assault. One, or both, men were charged under legislation which is more draconian than the legislation covering interference with flight crew. Only citizens can obtain bail under this legislation.
There will be a court case and, while talk is cheap at this point, it is likely to lead to a serious outcome. At least one of these people is now facing a period in prison.
There was a serious assault. One, or both, men were charged under legislation which is more draconian than the legislation covering interference with flight crew. Only citizens can obtain bail under this legislation.
There will be a court case and, while talk is cheap at this point, it is likely to lead to a serious outcome. At least one of these people is now facing a period in prison.
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The pilot should have contacted airport security to sort it, instead of confronting what sounds like a paid or alcohol induced thugs.
Anyone know what they were kicking off about?
Anyone know what they were kicking off about?
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If, and I stress the if info is correct, I wonder as to the wisdom and necessity this day and age of a pilot stepping out of the cockpit to sort out rogue pax.
IMHO opinion, dealing with the pax is a matter for the cabin crew. It's what we are paid for and what we are supposed to be good at. If the CC can't handle the pax, two possibilities remain.
Either the CC is unsuited to the job, or the pax is unsuited to be travelling by aircraft.
There can be no need for a pilot to expose himself to possible violence in this way.
We all have our job to do on the aircraft. The pilots shouldn't need the cabin crew to sort out their approach, and the cc shouldn't need the pilots to sort out the pax.
I had a Nigerian gent try to storm the cockpit on the ground a few weeks back in a similar incident. While I had kept the Captain informed about the developments with this chap so the Capt would be prepared incase he needed offloading, when the chap started running up the aisle towards the cockpit, I yanked open the cockpitdoor, slammed down the lock and closed the door.
While I greatly appreciate the instant back-up our pilots provide, and the chance to off-load my troubs after the event with a cuppa in the cockpit, the pax are my bailiwick.
If I can't deal with the pax, what the heck am I doing there?
IMHO opinion, dealing with the pax is a matter for the cabin crew. It's what we are paid for and what we are supposed to be good at. If the CC can't handle the pax, two possibilities remain.
Either the CC is unsuited to the job, or the pax is unsuited to be travelling by aircraft.
There can be no need for a pilot to expose himself to possible violence in this way.
We all have our job to do on the aircraft. The pilots shouldn't need the cabin crew to sort out their approach, and the cc shouldn't need the pilots to sort out the pax.
I had a Nigerian gent try to storm the cockpit on the ground a few weeks back in a similar incident. While I had kept the Captain informed about the developments with this chap so the Capt would be prepared incase he needed offloading, when the chap started running up the aisle towards the cockpit, I yanked open the cockpitdoor, slammed down the lock and closed the door.
While I greatly appreciate the instant back-up our pilots provide, and the chance to off-load my troubs after the event with a cuppa in the cockpit, the pax are my bailiwick.
If I can't deal with the pax, what the heck am I doing there?
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Well said, flapsforty. While I feel sorry for the skipper suffering a broken nose and all, he should never have exposed himself to the risk by confronting the alleged idiots in the first place.
Flaps & SG,
I'd resist any move to circumscribe the aircraft commander's action in any given situation.
Whether, with hindsight, the captain was unwise to speak to these people, I'd throw the book at anyone who assaults any crewmember, but especially the captain. (and I do say 'especially the captain' advisedly)
(not if the captain assaults a crewmember but you know what I mean
)
p.s. Noted not travellers - I guess that's why my previous posting was removed
I'd resist any move to circumscribe the aircraft commander's action in any given situation.
Whether, with hindsight, the captain was unwise to speak to these people, I'd throw the book at anyone who assaults any crewmember, but especially the captain. (and I do say 'especially the captain' advisedly)
(not if the captain assaults a crewmember but you know what I mean
)p.s. Noted not travellers - I guess that's why my previous posting was removed
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F40 and SG
Perhaps he shouldn't have left the flight deck, but he obviously decided that the CC weren't in control of the situation and that extra help was required. The bottom line is that it is the Captain, not the No.1, who is responsible for the aircraft and all aboard. I'm sure the decision to get involved was not taken lightly.
Perhaps he shouldn't have left the flight deck, but he obviously decided that the CC weren't in control of the situation and that extra help was required. The bottom line is that it is the Captain, not the No.1, who is responsible for the aircraft and all aboard. I'm sure the decision to get involved was not taken lightly.
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Maximus and Basil, your point about the Captain being the end responsible is true but not relevant here. At least in my eyes. Perhaps the extra help required was the Captain radio-ing for police?
The reason I made my above post was a tendency I see among our own pilots in the day to day operation. A tendency, born out of chivalry and with the best possible intentions, to offer to get involved in the cabin long before a situation has spun out of control of the cabin crew.
Perhaps because they have bad experience with cc in this regards, perhaps because they are afraid to delegate when the u-no-wot hits the fan, perhaps because they feel that since they are responsible, they are expected to personally sort it. I don't really know.
I do know that I believe that we should expect others to be able to do their jobs properly.
Speaking in general, and not in any way looking with hindsight at what this cpatain did because I don't have all the facts, I do think that suitably trained cabin crew is able to handle pax situations equally well if not better than a pilot.
Different skills, different areas of expertise.
......and when things do go pear shaped, especially while still on the ground, is it not better (and cheaper for the airline) to let the CC take it on the nose rather than the captain?
Basil, line up in sequence!
The reason I made my above post was a tendency I see among our own pilots in the day to day operation. A tendency, born out of chivalry and with the best possible intentions, to offer to get involved in the cabin long before a situation has spun out of control of the cabin crew.
Perhaps because they have bad experience with cc in this regards, perhaps because they are afraid to delegate when the u-no-wot hits the fan, perhaps because they feel that since they are responsible, they are expected to personally sort it. I don't really know.
I do know that I believe that we should expect others to be able to do their jobs properly.
Speaking in general, and not in any way looking with hindsight at what this cpatain did because I don't have all the facts, I do think that suitably trained cabin crew is able to handle pax situations equally well if not better than a pilot.
Different skills, different areas of expertise.
......and when things do go pear shaped, especially while still on the ground, is it not better (and cheaper for the airline) to let the CC take it on the nose rather than the captain?
Basil, line up in sequence!
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Flapsforty - Both posts agreed with in gereral, however, unlike our 737s or Airbus with 5 or more cabin crew the ATR only has 1 - hardly the same odds and a perfectly good reason for the Captain
to add 'numbers' to the equasion.
I suppose each incident will be different and no single answer will
be correct!
to add 'numbers' to the equasion.
I suppose each incident will be different and no single answer will
be correct!
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O'Leary, the ATR-72 has 2 CC, the ATR-42 only has 1.
http://www.aerarann.com/about_fleet_tech.htm
Still, I completely agree with your comparison of the ATR against a 737 or A320 etc.
Simon.
http://www.aerarann.com/about_fleet_tech.htm
Still, I completely agree with your comparison of the ATR against a 737 or A320 etc.
Simon.