Assault on Aer Arann flight_14/08/2004
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Flapsforty I am completely astounded at your remark about the cabin crew having to deal with this type of incident. Cabin crew are not there to keep the peace. Why shouldn't the captain make an appearance?????? Cabin crew are not there to keep the peace or stop fights. They are not paid enough for that. The captain of the aircraft is there for backup and his word is final. I am offended by your remark
Psychophysiological entity
Where’s the age of chivalry gone? In the air, yes, the captain has a clear duty to keep himself and the A/C safe, but on the ground? On the 72 there would be 2, possibly young females. What sort of captain would stay behind a locked door while a serious assault might be taking place?
niknak
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Lets get a sense of perspective here;
1 - It doesn't matter if these guys were travellers or not, there are low lifes in every community, all of whom operate on the same denominator - act stupidly first, think later - or sometimes not at all.
2 - Hindsight is a wonderful thing, the captain probably thought at the time that he was doing the best thing all round by trying to sort the problem out at a low key level, he was not to know that things were to kick off, and he should be applauded for taking a sensible attitude that many other captains of other larger airlines would not venture down.
3 - The guilty parties probably will get a jail term, simply because they assaulted an airline captain, and this is to be applauded if they do.
However, if they had done over Mr or Mrs Joe Public in a bar in Dublin, it's highly likely that all they would get is at the most a suspended sentance, but more likely a community service or a piffiling fine.
Assault resulting in a fractured beak, or much else, counts for nothing in the UK and Eire.
Little wonder the people who do this sort of thing think nothing of commiting the act, 'cos they know they'll not suffer themselves.
1 - It doesn't matter if these guys were travellers or not, there are low lifes in every community, all of whom operate on the same denominator - act stupidly first, think later - or sometimes not at all.
2 - Hindsight is a wonderful thing, the captain probably thought at the time that he was doing the best thing all round by trying to sort the problem out at a low key level, he was not to know that things were to kick off, and he should be applauded for taking a sensible attitude that many other captains of other larger airlines would not venture down.
3 - The guilty parties probably will get a jail term, simply because they assaulted an airline captain, and this is to be applauded if they do.
However, if they had done over Mr or Mrs Joe Public in a bar in Dublin, it's highly likely that all they would get is at the most a suspended sentance, but more likely a community service or a piffiling fine.
Assault resulting in a fractured beak, or much else, counts for nothing in the UK and Eire.
Little wonder the people who do this sort of thing think nothing of commiting the act, 'cos they know they'll not suffer themselves.
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Hi there
I am the Captain of a 34 seat turbo-prop that operates into Ireland daily. We have only one (nearly all female) cabin crew onboard, with an average age of between 21 and 25 years old. If anything was to happen down the back of my aircraft, whilst still on the ground, engines off, I have every confidence that our CC will be able to deal with nearly all eventualities. However, if in the rare case, and it does happen, that the CC cannot cope with the situation alone, then I would very quickly be down there in support of my crew whilst my F/O was radioing for further help. The idea of leaving them to face that sort of crap alone is unthinkable on the ground. We are all part of the same small crew and therefore, we all look out for each other!
In the air, well, that's a different story. Leaving the doors locked and getting quickly and safely on the ground without relinquishing control to the nutters onboard becomes the over-riding priority. The police can take over as soon as the engines are shut down. But on the ground, engines off, stationary? Would you seriously not go to help your single cabin crew member if such a situation arose!!!????
CCs are good, but they're not superhuman, especially in such a cramped working environment.
ACA
I am the Captain of a 34 seat turbo-prop that operates into Ireland daily. We have only one (nearly all female) cabin crew onboard, with an average age of between 21 and 25 years old. If anything was to happen down the back of my aircraft, whilst still on the ground, engines off, I have every confidence that our CC will be able to deal with nearly all eventualities. However, if in the rare case, and it does happen, that the CC cannot cope with the situation alone, then I would very quickly be down there in support of my crew whilst my F/O was radioing for further help. The idea of leaving them to face that sort of crap alone is unthinkable on the ground. We are all part of the same small crew and therefore, we all look out for each other!
In the air, well, that's a different story. Leaving the doors locked and getting quickly and safely on the ground without relinquishing control to the nutters onboard becomes the over-riding priority. The police can take over as soon as the engines are shut down. But on the ground, engines off, stationary? Would you seriously not go to help your single cabin crew member if such a situation arose!!!????
CCs are good, but they're not superhuman, especially in such a cramped working environment.
ACA
de minimus non curat lex
Whilst I am not without sympathy for ACA flying his Saab[?], the last time I was faced with a problem on the ground, I got dispatch and security to meet me outside the aircraft.
Following a discussion, they boarded the aircraft and removed the two paxs without any problem.
If you are going to ask anybody to remove themselves from their seats, an argument or worse is always possible.
Following a discussion, they boarded the aircraft and removed the two paxs without any problem.
If you are going to ask anybody to remove themselves from their seats, an argument or worse is always possible.
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It is very often the case that a woman can sort out a potentially violent situation better than a man. Even in this day and age many violent men are reluctant to hit a woman in a public situation. They are more likely to hit a man to look 'tough'.
I've no experience in the airline industry, but friends who have worked in pubs and hotels say the landlady often is more able to sort out trouble.
However, as flapsforty says, because of chivalry and to help members of their team, many men would try to help a woman in this situation.
(I am sure male cabin crew too would use their training and skills to defuse the situation.)
I've no experience in the airline industry, but friends who have worked in pubs and hotels say the landlady often is more able to sort out trouble.
However, as flapsforty says, because of chivalry and to help members of their team, many men would try to help a woman in this situation.
(I am sure male cabin crew too would use their training and skills to defuse the situation.)
Last edited by Polly Gnome; 16th Aug 2004 at 22:24.
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I wonder to what extent alcohol may have played a part in this incident?
If it was the case that they had consumed a fair amount, then this should have been nipped in the bud if the ground staff at the gate had refused them boarding in the first place.
I hope that they get banned from Aer Arann flights and that other operators do likewise.
A strong message must be sent out - if you don't behave don't come back.
If it was the case that they had consumed a fair amount, then this should have been nipped in the bud if the ground staff at the gate had refused them boarding in the first place.
I hope that they get banned from Aer Arann flights and that other operators do likewise.
A strong message must be sent out - if you don't behave don't come back.
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In these circumstances I believe that a busted nose was a small price to pay to maintain the confidence and respect that all captains should hopefully receive from their cabin staff.
What a pity that this assault didn't occur on one of the Greek Islands where the police can be relied on to take a hands on approach!
I would very much like to shake our colleague's hand and buy him a beer sometime.
What a pity that this assault didn't occur on one of the Greek Islands where the police can be relied on to take a hands on approach!
I would very much like to shake our colleague's hand and buy him a beer sometime.
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It was reported that a passenger on a Delta flight from New York to Athens which had to divert into Shannon due to an air rage incident was jailed for 3 months in Ireland yesterday. Hope a custodial sentence will also be given to those involved in the Aer Arann incident.
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I can categorically state (From inside information from the boys in blue) That these two individuals are not travellers. They are from Cork, and live in houses, not caravans. Sorry to burst everyones bubble!
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JET STREAM7
Just to answer your question...I work for a british carrier in the UK but live in Dublin! I spent three years on the ground in Dublin airport so I know a lot of what goes on! I can assure you as Iv had a similar incident in the UK that if the same thing had happened on a british airline on british soil...the agressors involved would most certainly be punished severly!
Just to answer your question...I work for a british carrier in the UK but live in Dublin! I spent three years on the ground in Dublin airport so I know a lot of what goes on! I can assure you as Iv had a similar incident in the UK that if the same thing had happened on a british airline on british soil...the agressors involved would most certainly be punished severly!
