Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Pilot SHORTAGE reduces experince level requirement for jobs.

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Pilot SHORTAGE reduces experince level requirement for jobs.

Old 1st Aug 2004, 00:31
  #1 (permalink)  
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Global village
Age: 54
Posts: 3,026
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Arrow Pilot SHORTAGE reduces experince level requirement for jobs.

Signs that the pilot shortage is kicking in, are starting to become evident, as per the following email received by me and several colleagues over the past week.

With regards to the imminent requirement with Atlas Blue and I am delighted that we can now forward more details to you and your collegues.



Description & requirements are as follows :

Sigmar Aviation, on behalf of Atlas Blue (wholly owned subsidiary of Royal Air Maroc) requires a number of B737 Classic Captains and First Officers for a 6 month to 3 year renewable contract based in Marrakech, and or Agidar (Morocco). Atlas Blue will begin revenue operations with 6 aircraft on the

1st of November and will have 13 aircraft by the middle of 2005.



Interested applicants should have the following minimum requirements:

- Current JAR Licence (Or European equivalent)
- Current Class 1 Medical
- Current LPC
- Valid Passport
- Current B737 Classic Captain

- 2500 hours total time

- 1000 hours on type



- Current B737 Classic First Officer

- Minimum 400 hours on type



The pay rate in relation to the pilots will be :

- 5,000 for Captain
- 3,300 for First officers

- Perdiem @ 1,200 per month in addition to this.


The assignment is based on 80 block hours per month with hours in excess being paid pro-rata up to a maximum of 100 block hours a month and 900 block hours per year.



- All flights are planned to return to either Agadir or Marrakesh on a daily basis.

- 8 days per month off will be standard in addition to annual leave accrual. 4 days of which will be provided consecutively.

- Hotel and ground transport will be provided for the first 6 month with a recommendation of an accomodation allowance provided for long term stay.

- As we are assembling the initial data for our client we would appreciate your response in relation to :

1. Whether you are interested in the assisgnment.

2. Whether you are availiable for assessment in Casablanca, if so what notice peroid you would require.

3. Whether we can forward details on your behalf to Atlas Blue to begin the assessment/ validation process.



If know of any collegues whom may be interested, forwarding these details to them would be greatly appreciated.

If you have any queries and/or are interested in applying please contact myself, Richard Carolan or Richard Wall here at Sigmar Aviation.



Kindest Regards



Nicole Skipsey

Operations Executive

8 Dawson Street, Dublin 2, Ireland

Tel: + 353 1 474 4666

Direct: + 353 1 474 4694

Fax: + 353 1 474 4640

www.sigmaraviation.com


With a follow-up email a week later:-

This is a follow up email from a recent job posting B737 300/400/500 (Classic) Captains & First officers.

Just to confirm my contact details below. You are welcome to call me on my direct line + 353 1 474 4694. If you have any queries or would like to be put forward for the postion. Sorry for any inconvenience.



Nicole Skipsey

Operations Executive

8 Dawson Street, Dublin 2, Ireland

Tel: + 353 1 474 4644

Direct: + 353 1 474 4694

Fax: + 353 1 474 4640

www.sigmaraviation.com


The Dunnunda & Godzone forum also indicates that Singapore based JETSTAR ASIA have had to resort to 250 hour (total time) pilots to fly as F/O's on their A320's
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=138369
Kaptin M is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 00:43
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hmmm,

Well, all I can say is, I have trained quite a few 250 hour (approximately) new First Officers on heavy jet transports, and found that most did quite well indeed.
It is the calibre of training that counts, not necessarily the total hours.

Should not be a problem for Kaptin M, surely.
411A is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 01:04
  #3 (permalink)  
MOR
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Euroland
Posts: 959
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oh, Please. Pilot shortage? I'm sure pilots are just queuing up to be based in Marrakech and Agidar - you'd have to be pretty desperate to take that assignment - or a lover of third-world living conditions.

No thanks...

And as for 250 hour Airbus F/O's, so what? Many airlines have cadet programs that do essentially the same thing. I'm not sure why that should be a sign of a pilot shortage either, particularly as that airline is based in the Third World as well.
MOR is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 01:34
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 52N 20E
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And the definition of "Third World " is ?????


I know........................Does anybody else???

Probably very few, but I suspect you will all be tapping away on yore KeYBBoaAArDs tOOOfiNd WaTTTit Reeeely iZZ

Be very careful of using "that one"


Lites Bloooo Tuchtbpaper staans welll bach.








Big Jubs are Spectacular..............
Smokie is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 02:08
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Oz
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What pilot shortage, I'm 6'2 an a bit"

ding
dingo084 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 03:15
  #6 (permalink)  
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Global village
Age: 54
Posts: 3,026
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Arrow

411A, I'm under no illusions that your experience far and away exceeds that of any other pilots singularly AND collectively!

However in my humble experience, I haven't previously heard of a major employer hiring 250 hour total time pilots straight into the right seat of a 2 crew jet transport aircraft.
Certainly cadets were recruited as S/O's, to "fly" in the jump seat for x number of years, before undertaking F/O transition training.
The airline I am currently with employs pilots with less than 500 hrs tt as direct entry F/O's - however this is due to the severe shortage of experienced pilots available in this Asian country. From intake to check-out, the time frame is almost 2 years though, and even then they have quite severe restrictions on their actual handling as PF.

Now to add some further support to the looming "pilot shortage", I was told that SQ pilots have had their previous pay cuts re-instated PLUS an additional 15% INCREASE in salary.

With all the that we (pilots) have been dished out over the previous decade or so, I can only say, it's about time!
Kaptin M is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 03:21
  #7 (permalink)  
MOR
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Euroland
Posts: 959
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Third World=Belfast for you Smokie!
MOR is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 03:38
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Belgium
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Kaptin M : Correction

The SQ paycut from July 2003 till March 2004 has been paid back
as a lump sum, and increased with 15% (of that lump sum !, impact on salary is 15%x15% = 2.25%)

The paycut (+/- 17%) CONTINUES as of today, with no outlook of
reinstatement, as long as no new collective agreement has been signed.

It is true that SIA cargo has problems filling in their vacancies
and that Tiger is being seconded by SIA ans Silkair pilots, as
recruitment is verrrry slow.

Take care (back to lurking)
gb
gb777 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 04:35
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Jakarta
Age: 70
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whoa, whoa, whoa...am a bit confused here.

Is this ad for basing in AGIDAR or AGADIR, have landed in Agadir but never heard of Agidar.

Any Morrocan experts out there? Where's Max Rathan when you need him???
Kato747 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 05:31
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Big airlines...?

Well, I dunno Kaptin M.
Seems to me I remember clearly that SQ had new pilots (250 hours or so) directly trained as First Officers on Boeing 707 equipment.
Gosh, come to think of it, I actually flew with 'em...and strangely enough, survived.
Of course, in those days they were trained to proficiency...as in 30+ circuits in the aeroplane (not to mention advanced sim training), before they were released for line training.

Now, if these guys could to do it then, on an aircraft that was not all that easy to fly(especially with an outboard engine failed at rotation), why would the same caliber of guy have trouble on an A320?
Yeah, I know it's an Airboos, but even so, seems to me that this would not present all that many problems.
411A is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 07:01
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've trained guys with less than 200 hours for A320,B737 and 757/767. If properly trained they are perfectly safe and well able to recover the aircraft in the event of a captain failure. It's been going on for years - in major airlines too (though not in the States)
Joyce Tick is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 08:22
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I thought there had always been more pilots than jobs? (In Australia).

Does this mean in 3 years time, the employment prospects for airline pilots would be even better and airline requirements would lower

Capt. J
Capt. J is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 11:32
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Everyone seems to have locked on to the F/O scale. What about 2500hrs for command. I think Kap M. might have been alluding to that figure; it being the more significant.
Some years ago 5000 was the EU norm in charter, then it lowered to 4000, and now a B737 command can be had in the LCA's for 3000. There's more to commanding than flying better than the F/O, and that is not always the case, anyway. When out and about and needing to make all the decisions off your own bat, in the air and on the ground (often) it requires experience. That takes time and exposure to the variety of problems. That equates to hours in the seat. Perhaps 2500 is too thin?
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 11:38
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: 5945'36N 1027'59E
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I haven't previously heard of a major employer hiring 250 hour total time pilots straight into the right seat of a 2 crew jet transport aircraft.
Add Scandinavian Air Lines and Ryanair to that too.


(Yeah,yeah, dont't start the RYR is a 2 bit operation rant agian )
M609 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 15:07
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
1000 hours for command is enough for the some mature, calm professionals whereas 5000 hours is not enough for some other, less gifted, pilots I've come across!
Joyce Tick is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 18:32
  #16 (permalink)  
ijp
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: New York
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Back in the early eightys at Air Lanka we had 300 hr f/os and the ones that could not fly were f/es. If capt was lost, flight would continue to the smoking hole. Now several of these kids are senior capts at Singapore.
ijp is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 21:57
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hmmm,

ijp,

Just how many 'smokin' holes' did UL have then?
411A is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 23:08
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BA Cadets presumably come on line at about 250 hours or less as do any going straight from Oxford, Cabair etc to an airline. Doesnt seem to present problems if the aptitude is correctly assessed. As for left had seat at 2,500 hours that would depend on the individual, but clearly not impossible. Probably quite a few on UK turboprops and they can be just as difficult,- or more difficult,- to fly.
Skylion is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2004, 23:20
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: south east
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pilot shortage my arse.

Read about the poor souls at FYR fearing for their jobs as that charleton MOL threatens to get in eastern european guys to replace them if they try to get union recognition to try to protect themselves against eroding T & Cs.

Nice place Morocco at the moment - full of Islamic extremists. Don't think I'll be applying somehow.
Orion Man is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2004, 04:08
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That is not new sience in the industrie. It had have happen in the past:

We require 10.000 hrs in total, 4.000 command and and and....
when all +10.000 hrs guys do not want to leave the present job and the others who where absorbed from the market then the demand was lowered until the seats where filled. Then the answer from the same person on the phone was:

How many hours you have ? ah` sorry but our requirement are... and you have just below that. So please call again when you have the hours.
Today the deliveries are increasing and the left seat guys are not risking to leave a secure position or do not risk any promise from fragile and fraudend Start ups, I did not say cock-ups,nooo
There is allways a market of contract pilots and of start ups....
operators as the same as new enthusiast who want to fly and do a lot to get a seat. To be a pilot is a profession and passion. It needs both to stay long term in the industrie.

NG
B737NG is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.