Malaysian Tail Strike on take off at Zurich
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Malaysian Tail Strike on take off at Zurich
Wednesday July 28th 2004
Tail Strike on departure ! ROTATE !!!
Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-2H6(ER)
9M-MRJ
A B777 made a big thing out of a Normal Take off! Tail Strike! Realy bad one! after 40min Fuel Dumping, 70 tonnes, over the "Schwarzwald" it made a Emergency Landing on RWY14 at Zürich with all the Firetruck`s etc....
Later the Flight MA9 to Kualalumpur was Canceld after 6h standing at the Gate E56 on the Dock Middfield.
The acft is now at home with SR Technics awaiting / undergoing inspection & repair.
The pilot, ... well the usual applies here ...
Photo at the following link.
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.cgi?238571
or
http://www.planepictures.net/netsear...=Thomas+Luethi
Pluss ...
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1383BIG_copy.jpg
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1384BIG_copy.jpg
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1385BIG_copy.jpg
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1386BIG_copy.jpg
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1387BIG_copy.jpg
Tail Strike on departure ! ROTATE !!!
Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-2H6(ER)
9M-MRJ
A B777 made a big thing out of a Normal Take off! Tail Strike! Realy bad one! after 40min Fuel Dumping, 70 tonnes, over the "Schwarzwald" it made a Emergency Landing on RWY14 at Zürich with all the Firetruck`s etc....
Later the Flight MA9 to Kualalumpur was Canceld after 6h standing at the Gate E56 on the Dock Middfield.
The acft is now at home with SR Technics awaiting / undergoing inspection & repair.
The pilot, ... well the usual applies here ...
Photo at the following link.
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.cgi?238571
or
http://www.planepictures.net/netsear...=Thomas+Luethi
Pluss ...
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1383BIG_copy.jpg
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1384BIG_copy.jpg
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1385BIG_copy.jpg
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1386BIG_copy.jpg
http://www.lucienschranz.com/DSCF1387BIG_copy.jpg
Last edited by Passenger 9; 30th Jul 2004 at 07:40.
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Boeing 777 doing something it isnt supposed to!!
Hang on here?
Didn't boeing fit a max body angle limiter in its flight control system? Have to remember the 777 is fly by wire, and therefore this shouldn't have happened unless the system failed...
Im not rated on the acft, but if anyone is, filling us in here would be great - also is there any indication on the flight deck when this happens that the system has failed?
Imagine they had to return...I just wonder what brought it on? Just procedurally the thing to do is lift the aircraft by applying full back yoke and let it lift like that? Or was this a repeat of the SIA case, where this time the runway end came very close indeed and required immediate back pressure....but still, the limiter should have stopped this...
Thank god it didn't end up any worse...Zurich has had its moments.
Didn't boeing fit a max body angle limiter in its flight control system? Have to remember the 777 is fly by wire, and therefore this shouldn't have happened unless the system failed...
Im not rated on the acft, but if anyone is, filling us in here would be great - also is there any indication on the flight deck when this happens that the system has failed?
Imagine they had to return...I just wonder what brought it on? Just procedurally the thing to do is lift the aircraft by applying full back yoke and let it lift like that? Or was this a repeat of the SIA case, where this time the runway end came very close indeed and required immediate back pressure....but still, the limiter should have stopped this...
Thank god it didn't end up any worse...Zurich has had its moments.
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Current B777,both -200 and -300 series do not have protection to avoid a tailstrike.Over-rotate and bang! The -300ER is from what i hear,going to have a system fitted to avoid this.Perhaps someone who is technically up to speed(unlike me) might be able to elaborate.Also,to answer your question,the -300 has an indication via EICAS to alert crew in event of tailstrike.(There is a tailstike leg,located rear underside of fuselage,which when compressed sends message to F/Deck. Electronic checklist requires both outflow valves switched to manual and then to open them both( depressurize cabin).Plan to land at nearest suitable airfield.
Hope this answers most of the questions
Safe flying all !
Hope this answers most of the questions
Safe flying all !
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answers!!
Bymonek,
Thanks for the input - I honestly thought the system was already installed on currently 777 models. That theyre considering it, and there is a warning system already built in just screams that the aircraft is probably fairly vulnerable to t/s - but then again, so is the 738.
Quite a tail strike at that too though - next question is how far down teh rwy, and therefore how much rwy did they have left, when they over rotated? Was it just pilot error, or an akwardly loaded airplane, or indeed a miscalculation in the takeoff speeds
Thanks for the input - I honestly thought the system was already installed on currently 777 models. That theyre considering it, and there is a warning system already built in just screams that the aircraft is probably fairly vulnerable to t/s - but then again, so is the 738.
Quite a tail strike at that too though - next question is how far down teh rwy, and therefore how much rwy did they have left, when they over rotated? Was it just pilot error, or an akwardly loaded airplane, or indeed a miscalculation in the takeoff speeds
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During a textbook rotate, the closest the tail of a B777 will get to the ground is 3.4' (About 1 Metre).
So it's pretty close even when things are going normally. To be honest, slow rotates are more common and a clearance of 4.2' is more usual.
As far as incorrect load and balance might affect things: Well it's pretty unlikely since there is a clever nosewheel sensor to let you know if the stab trim is in the right place. In the event of incorrect loading, the 'green band' for setting the trim would show an out of trim condition and there would be an associated caution. Pretty hard to get away with anything these days!
Despite all these safety measures, a good tug at rotate should result in a nice tail scrape.
LFW
So it's pretty close even when things are going normally. To be honest, slow rotates are more common and a clearance of 4.2' is more usual.
As far as incorrect load and balance might affect things: Well it's pretty unlikely since there is a clever nosewheel sensor to let you know if the stab trim is in the right place. In the event of incorrect loading, the 'green band' for setting the trim would show an out of trim condition and there would be an associated caution. Pretty hard to get away with anything these days!
Despite all these safety measures, a good tug at rotate should result in a nice tail scrape.
LFW
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How Far down the runway ?
The tail strike occured on departure from runway 16 at Zürich airport just after passing the intersection with runway 10/28. Most aircraft tend to reach Vr in this area.
Oh and the photo is NOT "Doctored" and the concrete or aluminium dust is real.
Oh and the photo is NOT "Doctored" and the concrete or aluminium dust is real.
Still behind the curtain
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Airbus tail strike
I don't know what you guys are going on about. The photo caption on the Airbus clearly says this was done intentionally to test minimum take-off distance. Let's not get into conspiracy theories here.
The photo made me suspicious right away, recalling a similar one of an L-1011 doing the same thing about 25 years ago. Also a test by Lockheed.
If you note carefully, there seems to be a skid plate under the Airbus. Cheers,
The photo made me suspicious right away, recalling a similar one of an L-1011 doing the same thing about 25 years ago. Also a test by Lockheed.
If you note carefully, there seems to be a skid plate under the Airbus. Cheers,
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Mea Culpa
See how things get away from you sometimes. One of the previous posts had a url directed toward a photo in some German airline column. I clicked on it and saw an Airbus shooting flames out the arse.
Never saw a picture of the 777. I take all the blame and I am deeply sorry to have been such a fool as not to have checked the post further. There goes my reliability.
Never saw a picture of the 777. I take all the blame and I am deeply sorry to have been such a fool as not to have checked the post further. There goes my reliability.
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I'm gonna say this one time, so listen up.
Unless there is an obsticle on the runway, or the aircraft has been severly mis-loaded, there is absolutely NO reason for a tailstrike on takeoff...period.
IF there is, it is because the handling pilot has not been paying attention.
Wrong thrust selected.
Wrong speeds selected.
Poor operating technique.
My God, I even knew a guy (ex-Eastern Air Lines) who over-rotated at TriStar-500 on takeoff (this ain't easy), ex-BOM enroute AMS.
The guy was an idiot, and oddly enough, disappeared after the flight, never to be seen again, by the company.
Just as well, as he would have been terminated.
The Chief Pilot shared my views exactly about over-rotations.
Ahhh, feel better now.
Unless there is an obsticle on the runway, or the aircraft has been severly mis-loaded, there is absolutely NO reason for a tailstrike on takeoff...period.
IF there is, it is because the handling pilot has not been paying attention.
Wrong thrust selected.
Wrong speeds selected.
Poor operating technique.
My God, I even knew a guy (ex-Eastern Air Lines) who over-rotated at TriStar-500 on takeoff (this ain't easy), ex-BOM enroute AMS.
The guy was an idiot, and oddly enough, disappeared after the flight, never to be seen again, by the company.
Just as well, as he would have been terminated.
The Chief Pilot shared my views exactly about over-rotations.
Ahhh, feel better now.
scheenboy,
these pics are very real. I saw that plane reland after dumping som 70 tons of fuel, it is now in the hangar of Sair Technics. The kid who took them has been on national TV today, nice guy, met him once I think. And plenty of withnesses too at the airport.
All,
from the picture it appears that the actual rotation took place where it usually does, right about the crossing between 16/10, which was in use that day. So, plenty of runway left after that.
No other information available at this time.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
these pics are very real. I saw that plane reland after dumping som 70 tons of fuel, it is now in the hangar of Sair Technics. The kid who took them has been on national TV today, nice guy, met him once I think. And plenty of withnesses too at the airport.
All,
from the picture it appears that the actual rotation took place where it usually does, right about the crossing between 16/10, which was in use that day. So, plenty of runway left after that.
No other information available at this time.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
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Boeing "TSP"
During flight testing the airplane’s raked wing tips, a new feature on the 777-300ER, has produced 1.5 percent better fuel consumption than expected. Takeoff field length improved by 1,000 feet (305 meters), because of two other new features – semi-levered landing gear and the tail strike protection (TSP) system, as well as brake performance.
The TSP system also reduced approach speeds by two to three knots. Community noise levels are below requirements and QC2 compliant for departure.
During flight testing the airplane’s raked wing tips, a new feature on the 777-300ER, has produced 1.5 percent better fuel consumption than expected. Takeoff field length improved by 1,000 feet (305 meters), because of two other new features – semi-levered landing gear and the tail strike protection (TSP) system, as well as brake performance.
The TSP system also reduced approach speeds by two to three knots. Community noise levels are below requirements and QC2 compliant for departure.
